Science & Technology, when shared freely, are a threat to the social order

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fiction is unique, it doesnt offer anything than a story..

Do i think the person should get paid for his fantasies, well i do actually..

But if i have a anatomy book, a mushroom book, well a book that explains how the world works.. It should be free..

In my awesome country of Sweden, we have the option of downloading or streaming new movies.. Yet the cinema is overcrowded, we give a choice to people who cant afford.. Then its up to you to make a choice..

originally posted by: wisvol

again, theft means stealing.

read it slowly

And steal means ideas.

steal
[steel]

1.
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force:
A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

www.dictionary.com...

verb ˈstēl

: to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal
: to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission
: to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.)

www.merriam-webster.com...


Read slowly. Your own source says this is stealing. It's property. Just because you don't want it to be does not make it not property.

1.3 Law The right to the possession, use, or disposal of something; ownership:
rights of property

Your source agrees with me, read slower.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: wisvol

Will you accept working your current job for no payment? Yes or no answer.

a reply to: kisin

You have that anatomy book because someone put time and effort into gathering facts and putting them together. Why is that not worth anything? Why would anyone do that for free? Do you go to work for free?

OP is arguing movies and fiction books can't be stolen by downloading them and giving them to others.

If you want to argue important discoveries SHOULD be shared, that is a very different topic. You can't take another person's work without permission.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If the end result is your giving away something that is not yours and it causing the person who owns it to lose money, you stole their money.

What do you mean..."not mine". I bought the DVD...it's mine. I didnt just buy an empty DVD...I paid for the content on it. And again...they didnt lose money...they didnt get it in the first place. You cant claim money you never received based on good faith that you should. There is no law obliging me to go the the cinema and pay for the movie. Maybe I'm such a person that would never pay for one. It's either free or I wont watch it. Therefore...they never lost money from me downloading it...since...they wouldnt get it from me in any circumstances.

You are making a false claim that if I'm not able to download it...that I will go to the cinema and pay for a ticket. This is not a given and no financial claim can be made on an assumption that given no options to get a film for free...I would pay for it.

Your boss is going to give you a raise. I take the check and cash it. Because you never had it I did not steal from you? Of course I did. Your position is ludicrous.

Poor example...nobody in my country receives "checks" and cash it as means of getting payed. I get my money directly to my bank account...from my employer. The minute the employer clicks pay out...the money is mine. Whether I phycially have it or not...is beyond the point.

In any case...I dont see how is this even remotely similar to what we discuss. You are talking about a "potential" for earning...which is unrealized, but nowhere stated as a number that has to be achieved. Potential earnings are just that..potentials...and owners or producers desires...certainly not numbers written in stone.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: wisvol

It absolutely is a semantics argument. You're literally taking something for free and denying revenue from a content producer in the process. Saying "but technically it's not stealing because [insert dictionary definition here]" is a lame attempt to justify unethical behaviour. It's a crappy argument and not a valid defense in the slightest.

No, the use of external definition is made to prove that it is not my definition against yours (a semantics argument) but that words do have meanings independent of your insanely dumb opinions.

unethical behaviour would be denying students the access to their chosen field because of their inability to play monopoly at the same time.

I do not need a "valid defence", I created this thread asking a question you still haven't addressed, and your views of theft are incorrect based on the meaning of theft, not opinion.

originally posted by: wisvol

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: wisvol

It absolutely is a semantics argument. You're literally taking something for free and denying revenue from a content producer in the process. Saying "but technically it's not stealing because [insert dictionary definition here]" is a lame attempt to justify unethical behaviour. It's a crappy argument and not a valid defense in the slightest.

No

Then you are a hypocrite.

a reply to: GetHyped

Will you accept working your current job for no payment? Yes or no answer.

Yes

I believe and participate in volunteering, since I reached adult size.

Playing monopoly is also fine, and if making propaganda batman films stolen from Robert Kane did not generate more money than they cost, they would not be produced.

Boo hoo for ben affleck not being able to afford as much coke? so off topic
someone who wants to study biology but only has access to dawkins is the death of science

originally posted by: GetHyped


Then you are a hypocrite
[

Your conclusions are worth nothing

Ok I'll bite...

You are not taking data and leaving someone with nothing which is stealing, but you are taking an idea and giving it away...

If I created a shirt line and every shirt design I create a company copies and mass produces are they stealing? Yes... They are stealing intellectual property.

I used to think like this when I was a teenager and shared music. But I was grasping for a reason that it would be ok.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

What do you mean..."not mine". I bought the DVD...it's mine. I didnt just buy an empty DVD...I paid for the content on it.

Now we are in a very different argument. You can do as you like with that physical copy. What you can NOT do is what the OP says you can .. which is make copies and give those copies to as many people as you want.

And again...they didnt lose money...they didnt get it in the first place. You cant claim money you never received based on good faith that you should. There is no law obliging me to go the the cinema and pay for the movie. Maybe I'm such a person that would never pay for one. It's either free or I wont watch it. Therefore...they never lost money from me downloading it...since...they wouldnt get it from me in any circumstances.

If you bought the DVD you have no need to download it. If you download it and do not buy it you are now supporting my argument. You personally can download it and claim no theft as you would not have gone and you can know your own thoughts. You can not download it and give it to 1 million people and claim you know for a fact none of them would have gone.

You are making a false claim that if I'm not able to download it...that I will go to the cinema and pay for a ticket. This is not a given and no financial claim can be made on an assumption that given no options to get a film for free...I would pay for it.

Never once did I make that claim. I claimed if you give it to 1 million people you caused a loss. There is no way you can prove to me none of them would have gone. When you share it with others is when you stole it.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Ah yes, why don't you work for free for your boss, then. Technically it's not stealing so it's a-ok. Will you willingly join the ranks of people being denied payment for their hard work? Nah, didn't think so.

So would you happy with working your current job for no paycheque? There's the "potential" for earning but you won't get payed a dime. Yes or no answer.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Institutions has a paycheck for that.. State regulated most times, well in my awesome country of Sweden it is..
The publisher is given a paycheck, the publisher offers a writer/scientist ( not a mathematician, only in the US does a mathematician get a paycheck ) a paycheck, with credentials..

Discoveries in my awesome country of Sweden is state regulated by institutions, the institutions hands a paycheck.. The institution buys the work, and, puts a stamp on it as credible, and the writer is offered royalty..

This is the problem with america, anyone can sell any horse*hit they like, with a nice online diploma..

Cant do the same here

a reply to: GraffikPleasure

This is not the topic of the thread, t shirt design intellectual property

who gives a #

what is taken from you if people wear the shirts without you having to manufacture shirts is they give you free publicity and flatter you by honouring your work

they wouldn't have bought your 20$ shirt and they got the cheap one instead
When I wanted to download music off Napster back in the day I got a group of musicians together, recorded an album, and put it online for free

it may not have been as popular as metallica's

but participating in the musical community makes it a shared experience

and kirk hammett still hasn't starved

a reply to: kisin

How do they pay me? All books make the same money? The best book in the world makes the same as something no one would ever read?

originally posted by: wisvol
This is not the topic of the thread, t shirt design intellectual property

who gives a #

what is taken from you if people wear the shirts without you having to manufacture shirts is they give you free publicity and flatter you by honouring your work

Awesome when no one buys my product I go bankrupt and lose my house I will be so happy about free publicity and the flattery.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sooo, you found a publisher for your book? Or you going on a solo mission ?

originally posted by: wisvol
and kirk hammett still hasn't starved

Because most people are not twisted like you. If EVERYONE did it he would .. and your claim is that it's not theft and is ok.

a reply to: kisin

It doesn't matter to the topic. All books regardless of popularity and quality make the same amount?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And steal means ideas.

An author has a right to a patent

Most good authors do not care for patents

An idea cannot be destroyed or stolen

my source certainly doesn't agree with you, poor dumb arrogant child

here it is in full:

steal Pronunciation: /stiːl/ verb (past stole /stəʊl/; past participle stolen /ˈstəʊlən/) 1 [with object] Take (another person’s property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: thieves stole her bicycle (as adjective stolen) stolen goods [no object]: she was found guilty of stealing from her employers More example sentences Synonyms 1.1Dishonestly pass off (another person’s ideas) as one’s own: accusations that one group had stolen ideas from the other were soon flying More example sentences Synonyms 1.2Take the opportunity to give or share (a kiss) when it is not expected or when people are not watching: he stole kisses in shop doorways More example sentences Synonyms 1.3(In various sports) gain (an advantage, a run, or possession of the ball) unexpectedly or by exploiting the temporary distraction of an opponent: he stole the ball from Kevin Scott to run on and score his seventh League goal More example sentences 1.4 Baseball Run to (a base) while the pitcher is in the act of delivery: he claims he can steal a hundred bases this season More example sentences 2 [no object, with adverbial of direction] Move somewhere quietly or surreptitiously: he stole down to the kitchen she disobeyed a court order and stole away with the children figurative a delicious languor was stealing over her More example sentences Synonyms 2.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Direct (a look) quickly and unobtrusively: he stole a furtive glance at her

The only reference to stealing ideas is stealing credit for ideas

if you put your own disgrace of a name on a batman flick you're stealing credit

sharing data is not stealing, stealing is defined by professional linguists as stealing

move on