It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Science & Technology, when shared freely, are a threat to the social order

page: 2
2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:44 AM
link   

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Nobody who experiences this theft wants those terminator seeds (not the only monsanto seeds)


Except these terminator seeds were never put on the market.


yet monsanto has bought the FDA so if you want corn, gotta buy FDA approved seeds, which are monsanto's (and their pepsi equivalent which they also own)


Monsanto aren't even the biggest seed supplier on the market by a LONG shot. It's a free market, farmers can buy what they want. Go ask anyone in the farming industry what seeds they buy and why. Clue: It's not because they're being forced to.




posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:50 AM
link   
a reply to: wisvol

I do agree on this, technology should not be available for everyone...



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:56 AM
link   
a reply to: GetHyped




There's a compelling argument for making research freely available and not behind paywalls but it's not as simple as "just make it free lol" and certainly not as disingenuous as claiming that infringing copyright isn't theft (argue semantics all you want but it is).


Insisting language be used properly is not "arguing semantics", philistine.

Copy right applies to the right of making copies, whereas copying data is done constantly by all life.
Infringing copyright may debatably be wrong, and honestly I don't give a flying # and made this thread for the purpose of discussing the question asked in the OP.




Except these terminator seeds were never put on the market.


Lies: www.globalresearch.ca...




Monsanto aren't even the biggest seed supplier on the market by a LONG shot. It's a free market, farmers can buy what they want. Go ask anyone in the farming industry what seeds they buy and why. Clue: It's not because they're being forced to.


Farming isn't an industry, seeds are kept, not bought, and the industrialization of farming leads to the kind of foods that make you think the way you do.

Incidentally, Kisin's point hereafter is closely linked to this, as we'll get to just now



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:57 AM
link   
a reply to: kisin

Sadly, it shouldn't.

The best demonstration is how pigs use gunpowder, which they never figure out in the wild.

Now that we agree on this, will you be so kind as to give me your opinion on the question posed in the OP?



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Zen64

1000 people watch it, 10 who would have gone to see the movie now don't. They lost money from that. YOU STOLE that money from them.




Interesting perspective...shared by the big corps. I look at it this way...in order to steal something from someone...he has to have it first. If these 10 men never gave the money for tickets...then it can not effectively be stolen.

They didn't lose money....since they never got it for it to be lost. You are talking about financial projections...which are just that...projections and in a busyness world...projections are almost frequently...not met.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:11 AM
link   
a reply to: wisvol

The main problem is; We live in a world that is Created by a God, we are given an opportunity to make the most of it.. The main reason religion occurred was so that humans had a chance to survive, young, old, poor, rich.. If you still eat what is harmful to you, its your fault.. If you drink and smoke, its your fault... This world has a place for humans, but if you want to live like an animal, its your choice..

Im sorry you didnt want to hear it like that..

You are always given a choice..



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: wisvol

There's a compelling argument for making research freely available and not behind paywalls but it's not as simple as "just make it free lol" and certainly not as disingenuous as claiming that infringing copyright isn't theft (argue semantics all you want but it is).


I feel like I need to address this again based on the other posts of yours I've read so far.
Short sentences, too

Infringing copyright:

the efficient scientists, who draw logical conclusion from repeatable observations
aka not the loud pushers of dumb ass cults
These efficient scientists do not *want* copyright because
if their ideas hold water, and are shared freely among financially challenged students, they will become references
enter textbooks, and gain tenure by being smart instead of being loud

copyright on your #ty propaganda is another topic entirely, and this thread is about science, please stick to it in the future



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:15 AM
link   

originally posted by: kisin
a reply to: wisvol


Im sorry you didnt want to hear it like that..

You are always given a choice..


What makes you think I didn't want to read it like that?
On the contrary, thanks for sharing.

We do have choices, but how evil is it to "teach" children the dumbest bull# with full force of authority, when they may take decades to realize they've been deceived?



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:24 AM
link   
a reply to: wisvol

The Old testament had rules, strict.. They didnt believe in the concept of choices.. It was harsh, the culture was set like a caste system, it didnt work.. Slaves rioted, looted, pillaged, murdered..

Every society are searching for those individuals who can make us take a leap in a divine creation by God. Society are sworn to protects those individuals, in the laws of the jungle they die..
You made a system of free choices and Christian values, hoping that those who never can achieve anything human like would take a deal and sign it with blood.. Most do..

Society is sworn to protect the humans within it.. Being a human is not something you are born as..



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly


Interesting perspective...shared by the big corps.

False. They will claim you downloading it for personal use only is stealing. That was not my position.


I look at it this way...in order to steal something from someone...he has to have it first. If these 10 men never gave the money for tickets...then it can not effectively be stolen.

If the end result is your giving away something that is not yours and it causing the person who owns it to lose money, you stole their money.


They didn't lose money....since they never got it for it to be lost. You are talking about financial projections...which are just that...projections and in a busyness world...projections are almost frequently...not met.

Your boss is going to give you a raise. I take the check and cash it. Because you never had it I did not steal from you? Of course I did. Your position is ludicrous.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: wisvol

The results of your two proposed thought experiments, which -again- are of little value to this thread are not the same.
a) you steal money from a vault => the result is theft, someone has less money afterwards
b) you watch a movie with your room mate => the result is sociality, nobody has less anything afterwards

False. The people who acted have less. The people who financed the movie have less. Everyone has less .. except the person who stole the movie, and has more.



Theft is an existing word, which you don't get to define, just to use properly.
They don't lose money if there is no money.
In example a) there is money, in example b) there isn't.

I remember your saying that in the other thread and being completely wrong, like now.

steal
[steel]

1.
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force:
A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

Both 1 and 2 fit, especially 2, which addresses ideas. You are right. It has a meaning, why do you refuse to follow the definition?



You don't lose money in a money free situation any more than you can miscarry a foetus as a man.

So when they make less money due to your theft it's money free? Someone writes a book, it's got great reviews, EVERYONE wants a copy, the writer is expected to make millions. You find a leaked copy and share it with the world. Everyone downloads it. No one buys it. That's a money free situation? You did not take anything away from him?

We both know you know you are wrong, just like the other thread.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:43 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In my awesome country called Sweden.. Most patents, actually anything with technology usually comes here for testing, why? We have zero interest in profit making, its a cultural thing, that is hard to explain to an American.. Most countries that come in and try to make a buck, well they end up empty handed.. So back to the OP, we take everything we get a hold off, cause it contributes to society..Mark that word "society" not individual.. But we also make a demand to our state, that everything technological and information should be kept transparent.. Under the influence the information is kept in a Scandinavian tongue.. We are taught western cultural ideals, for the main reason, so we can talk with you and understand your culture.. Information and technology is free here cause we know our boundaries.. And then we play retards when we go abroad..

You are welcome



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:44 AM
link   
a reply to: kisin

So you think an author who is the next Shakespeare should not get paid for their work?



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:45 AM
link   
a reply to: wisvol

It absolutely is a semantics argument. You're literally taking something for free and denying revenue from a content producer in the process. Saying "but technically it's not stealing because [insert dictionary definition here]" is a lame attempt to justify unethical behaviour. It's a crappy argument and not a valid defense in the slightest.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:46 AM
link   
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Ah yes, why don't you work for free for your boss, then. Technically it's not stealing so it's a-ok. Will you willingly join the ranks of people being denied payment for their hard work? Nah, didn't think so.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:47 AM
link   
a reply to: wisvol

Will you accept working your current job for no payment? Yes or no answer.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:50 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I think Bacon was an awesome writer, he didnt get paid...

If its fiction, of course.. Fiction books should always get paid..

However, fact books, should be free.. is called fact books?



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: wisvol

It absolutely is a semantics argument. You're literally taking something for free and denying revenue from a content producer in the process. Saying "but technically it's not stealing because [insert dictionary definition here]" is a lame attempt to justify unethical behaviour. It's a crappy argument and not a valid defense in the slightest.
I inserted the dictionary definition ... it includes IDEAS.

OP is wrong and has no clue.



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:50 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04




False. The people who acted have less. The people who financed the movie have less. Everyone has less .. except the person who stole the movie, and has more.


You're serious, too. That is disturbing.
Actors do not have less because nothing was taken from them. Producers idem
The person who didn't steal the movie does have more.




I remember your saying that in the other thread and being completely wrong, like now.


Your memory is flawed. I discuss this topic on this website in one thread.




Both 1 and 2 fit, especially 2, which addresses ideas. You are right. It has a meaning, why do you refuse to follow the definition?


Your definition is not sourced. I have sourced a definition from Oxford dictionary.




So when they make less money due to your theft it's money free? Someone writes a book, it's got great reviews, EVERYONE wants a copy, the writer is expected to make millions. You find a leaked copy and share it with the world. Everyone downloads it. No one buys it. That's a money free situation? You did not take anything away from him? We both know you know you are wrong, just like the other thread.


A situation where there is no money does not involve money.
Again, what other thread?
"leaking" a book allows those who don't purchase books access to its information.
It is the author's prerogative to advise against it, which in a scientific context as this thread is discussing, implies that the author cares more about money than about science, which is a telltale sign of a #ty scientist because good scientists gain from distributing their ideas.
Stealing credit is common, and wide distribution of properly credited work helps prevent this more than any laws.

Stealing involves a loss, wrongly estimating your target market is not theft, it's poor capitalism.

Your check example is also good for this: the boss who gives a raise is the student who would pay.
Students are overwhelmingly unable to pay in proportion to the reading time they have.
Universities have libraries for this reason.
When a student reads a book from his or her university's library he or she is not stealing from the author, but honouring and vitalizing the author's work.

You are wrong and your view of theft is dangerously flawed.

again, theft means stealing.

read it slowly



posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 05:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: kisin
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I think Bacon was an awesome writer, he didnt get paid...

If its fiction, of course.. Fiction books should always get paid..

However, fact books, should be free.. is called fact books?

I write a fiction book. Mister X hacks my computer and downloads it and releases it for free to the world. I would have made millions. I now make nothing. OP is saying that is not theft.




top topics



 
2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join