Exclusive: Most Americans support torture against terror suspects - poll

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: intrepid

Option A:

Ban the entire middle east's oil like the world did with African blood diamonds.

YES!!!!

We can produce it here at home. Or work it out with nations that are a little less off putting, like Nicaragua (yes, i said that)

Add practically every middle eastern country to the state sponsors of terrorism.

Don't forget the US, though.

Seriously....just because our bombs are meant to terrify from a drone and not the trunk of a car doesn't make it all that different.

The west stop arming 'moderates'

Oh, and now you are going to try to baffle us with common sense?

Todays moderates are tomorrows extremists. At least, once they have our RPG's.

a reply to: thesaneone

It IS an ugly world.

But we don't have to strut up and down the street posturing like we have little man syndrome, either.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: thesaneone

How's that working out for you?

How's what working out for me??

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: thesaneone

It IS an ugly world.

But we don't have to strut up and down the street posturing like we have little man syndrome, either.

No we don't, "nothing personal just business", as the saying goes.

I say we take their caliphate away, first. Take back the ground.

That is the incentive they are counting on for recruits and drives the ideology.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: thesaneone

It IS an ugly world.

But we don't have to strut up and down the street posturing like we have little man syndrome, either.

No we don't, "nothing personal just business", as the saying goes.

That's the problem. They take that seriously. Not "just business". They should. It's their lives.

I say we take their caliphate away, first. Take back the ground.

Tried and failed.

That is the incentive they are counting on for recruits and drives the ideology.

No. The incentive is more dead fathers. Dead sisters. Dead cousins.... that did nothing. You want to lessen terrorism? Stop creating terrorists.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: intrepid

Option A:

Ban the entire middle east's oil like the world did with African blood diamonds.

I don't have a single problem with that. It'd be just the incentive needed to boost all levels of production here.

Add practically every middle eastern country to the state sponsors of terrorism.

This includes both Saudi Arabia,Iran,Kuwait,Turkey,UAE,Yemen,Syria,Oman etc.

I could get behind that.

Kick China and Russia off the Un 'security' council since they are arming them.

Good luck with that one!! I don't have a real issue with it. But not gonna happen.

The west stop arming 'moderates'

Agreed. Stop arming everyone. This has come back to bite way too often.

That's a beginning.

When that fails.

It would be a beginning, alright.

Boots on the ground, and kill them until they are gone. No half asses measures.

No winning hearts and minds.

No 'nation building'.

Kill them, and break their will to fight.

That means bringing the entire resources of this country to bear. Like we did in world war 2.

A combined effort from everyone.

I'd rather another solution be found, almost any solution. Only as the last resort.

And lastly keep the effing politics out of it.

Get it done.

That, quite simply, isn't going to happen. Ever. The only mitigation that can/will occur is going to have to come from us. As you well know, 'cause I know you're a smart guy. That's our job. Expecting politicians to not meddle is impossible, without emphasizing consequences for failure. Removal from office.

a reply to: neo96


Most Americans support torture against terror suspects - poll

Well perhaps they do but how sad and insane it is that people support an act of violence against others but would never want that same action applied to them or their loved ones.

How more times do people have to learn that a law the gets up because its sold to the public as "this law will only ever be applied to some one else not you' will be applied to them in time.

In my own country, stop and search laws, anti fortification laws and 'anti gang membership' laws were sold to the public on the basis that such laws are only ever going to be applied to the very small group of bad evil people, not the community as a whole.

Now of course ...... you guessed it.

The stupidity of the masses knows no bounds, and that's why governments treat the masses like their stupid, cos most of them are so easily tricked.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Hey brother it's a simple question and everyone can answer this the way they choose but I know my answer.

If somebody you loved were captive and in imminent danger, and you had the person/source in custody would you act in a way that is beneficial towards your loved one (including torture) to get the information on their wear abouts and the guarantee of their safe return. Or would you act ideally and allow that loved one to suffer whatever fate may come. I know my answer what is yours?

Hmm, well how did I get the person/source in custody? Through sleuthing, or did I torture someone to get him too?

Its the difference between principals and politics.

The average person sees the left, when bush was president, hating touture, drone bombings and war. Now under Obama, those activities are cool.

The average person, see those on the right, that supported Bush's foreign policies are not condemning Obama for doing the same thing Bush did.

This pattern is similar in many different topics. That's why te average American are jumping on the trump train

originally posted by: Azureblue
How more times do people have to learn that a law the gets up because its sold to the public as "this law will only ever be applied to some one else not you' will be applied to them in time.

People like to judge themselves by comparing to others. If another group is put under additional laws while they aren't, it makes them feel like they're doing better than the rest of society and reaffirms the bad decisions they made in life. That's why they support laws like this.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Hey brother it's a simple question and everyone can answer this the way they choose but I know my answer.

If somebody you loved were captive and in imminent danger, and you had the person/source in custody would you act in a way that is beneficial towards your loved one (including torture) to get the information on their wear abouts and the guarantee of their safe return. Or would you act ideally and allow that loved one to suffer whatever fate may come. I know my answer what is yours?

In this sort of ticking time bomb scenario all they have to do is hold out for a few hours/days. Give you false information, make you waste your resources, and eventually the person you care about is dead at which point it doesn't matter if what they tell you is the truth. You also have no further recourse, you either let them go, kill them, imprison them, or the fourth option of torturing them for the rest of their lives but the rest of the world wouldn't let you get away with that, even NK doesn't do it.

originally posted by: schuyler
Waterboarding and the stuff America has done in an attempt to get people to talk is not "torture" in any conventional sense of the term.

Then how come you hanged Japanese for doing it to Americans during WWII? Sorry Sparky, ya can't suck and blow at the same time, eh?

a reply to: neo96

Its only ok when they are doing it to someone else besides themselves. Is the mantality.

originally posted by: enament
a reply to: neo96

Its only ok when they are doing it to someone else besides themselves. Is the mantality.

I would seem that the colour/race of the recipients seems to come into play as well.

a reply to: neo96

Should those rights extend to those that has actively, and openly declared war on the state, and war on the people?

You want torture to be used as a form of punishment - without due process - tit for tat?

It's a crime against humanity

Torture says more about the torturer than it does the tortured

What kind of people are we?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Cult members don't get DUE PROCESS once identified ...not to mention NON CITIZENS.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Cult members don't get DUE PROCESS once identified ...not to mention NON CITIZENS.

I have no doubt that this is how you would handle things - or how you have handled situations in your past. Your opinion isn't one that matters


The view that American due process rights are only for American citizens is intuitive and pervasive. It is also completely wrong.

This is just how the Constitution works. The Fifth Amendment says (among other things) that “no person shall be . . . deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” This is followed up in the Fourteenth Amendment with “nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Nowhere is the word “person” qualified with any citizenship requirements, and this is significant, for it means — and has always meant — that the requirement to provide due process of law is a requirement that attaches to the state, not a right that applies to citizenship.

Cutoff heads, bombs, raped women and children, ruined temples... Hard not to want revenge for this...
But to torture puts "us" in the evil as well.
We have recent technology that might be able to get answers, without reducing ourselves with methods of torture.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

On a battlefield as a recon element YES bub,YES my opinion DOES matter.
AS to the rest of the answer I defer from the IDIOTIC progressive thought process because reality has bit me so much I became FAR more intelligent than most.
NO ,they DON'T get US rights at all,there due process is the .556, rendering YOUR arguments and the calamity of errors it suggests ,MUTE.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Like I said - I'm pretty sure you're going to do what you're going to do

When it comes to what many of us believe - your opinion? Not so much

The difference between our ideals and reality can be explained by you - obviously

I'm not sure what can be done about that