Trump call to punish women for abortions

originally posted by: LifeisGrand
It is a shame when we live in a world where animals take the moral high ground. While immoral humans who would murder their unborn would mock a would-be leader of theirs if that leader thought unborn life was precious.

YOU do not define my morals.

Neither do animals.

a reply to: LifeisGrand

You make a good example of what I was talking about earlier. People playing Pretend and Make Believe Reality. Mr. Kitten, with mommy kitten and daddy kitten. Most of all talking to your false God asking him to cast YOUR judgement on people.

Sorry Kitten. But your little passive aggressive BS is so transparent and simple minded I doubt you have the ability to give an honest opinion about so complex a subject.

You really should go play make believe somewhere else though because the grown ups don't find your games very funny or cute. Because this topic isn't cute and what you're doing is insulting.

a reply to: mOjOm

None of it is play. It is all real. You may brush it away, in your mind. But I will stand firm. And so will science.

If you take away take away the life of a person who has done nothing wrong, is that not murder?

Is it not?

If you agree it is murder, which it is. Which person who has aborted a human, or who has condoned it, has not committed murder, or condoned murder.

Do you condone murder of innocent humans?

This is not play. It is real.

And don't even try to come at me with, unborn humans aren't human. Take that unborn fetus DNA to a lab and have them check the DNA to see if it was a human or not.

From conception a new person is born. With unique DNA. Combined from their mom and dad. And if you had the ability or forethoguht to see into it, you could see who that person would be even as a grown-up. Yep. The idea that DNA evolves into human DNA in a womb over time, it is a myth. You have been fooled and lied to.

originally posted by: LifeisGrand
a reply to: mOjOm

None of it is play. It is all real. You may brush it away, in your mind. But I will stand firm. And so will science.

Frankly, your opinion on the matter - - can blow in the wind. That's how much I care about you trying to take some moral high ground.

If its not OK with you, don't do it.

Just stay out of my way.

a reply to: LifeisGrand

and yet, we've been fighting wars all over the world for how long???
what's trump's stand on war, I don't think he has a problem with that since I read somewhere that he wouldn't take the idea of nuking europe out of the equation in the war against the evil terrorists...
gee, reckon, just how many innocent lives would be lost with that one???

a reply to: LifeisGrand

Shame on you. On every single human that allows the murder of innocent and helpless humans.

I agree, some of you have been mislead into believing humans are not humans, and thus murder of them is okay. Just like Hitler told many people about certain humans.

And most of you that think it is okay to murder other humans if they are not born have been spoon-fed the thought since you were born. So it must be true. Because other people who think murder of innocent unborn is okay can't be wrong. They have to be right.

Except for one thing. Even women who have no moral teaching of right and wrong, their own conscience condemns them. Whether it has been taught what is right, or not.

Their very own instinct tells them what they are doing is morally crass and abhorrent.

There is a reason that there are hotlines for women who murder their unborn offspring to call, so they don't commit suicide.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: LifeisGrand

and yet, we've been fighting wars all over the world for how long???
what's trump's stand on war, I don't think he has a problem with that since I read somewhere that he wouldn't take the idea of nuking europe out of the equation in the war against the evil terrorists...
gee, reckon, just how many innocent lives would be lost with that one???

I don't care about Trump. It looked like he was really confounded about this issue. And he should be. Because it looks like he still listens to reason. Unlike the majority of humankind. You would condone it would you not? I mean the murder of unborn. It looked as if he had no idea. Which is more commendable than people who do. It shows he still thinks. Most people don't now, do they?

a reply to: LifeisGrand

driving through the streets in my city, I don't see a lack of humans either!!!
when yous come up with common sense laws that also allow for the protection of the mother, let me know...
but laws (or relgious doctrines in the case of catholic hospitals) that ban inducing an abortion when a miscarriage is in progress and there's really no hope for the baby anyways and results in needless surgeries to repair the damage the resulting infections cause....
no, sorry, that's not sane legislation in the least.

you want to look at just what bad abortion bans would make your world look like, well take a looks at the countries with those abortion bans!

gawker.com...

www.google.com...=where+is+Beatriz+today

www.cnn.com...

www.clutchmagonline.com...

www.reproductiverights.org...

www.amnesty.org...

www.un.org...

just putting a human perspective on your .000000001 or whatever percentage you wish to use... they are real people, some with real kids that they are either trying to care for now with major medical issues that are the result of that small, oh must be made up, risk that their pregnancy posed.

Facts

Approximately 13 percent of maternal deaths worldwide are attributable to unsafe abortion—around 47000 deaths annually. Millions of women suffer chronic complications. [1]
Restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. The abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America—regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.[2]
Where abortion is permitted on broad legal grounds, it is generally safe, and where it is highly restricted, it is generally unsafe. Low and mid-income countries with relatively liberal abortion laws are associated with fewer negative health consequences from abortion than countries with highly restrictive laws.[3]

www.may28.org...

and, well, if kind of seems that many of those countries with the strictest bans have abortion rates that are over twice the rate of western europe with their lax laws..

a reply to: LifeisGrand

would you condone allowing a women wither in pain, develop a life threatening infection and die in agony just for the priviledge of denying her an abortion of the unviable fetus she is carrying???
I knew a lady a few decades ago, she was not mentally stable, was in and out of the hospital quite a bit. somehow during one of those hospital stays, she kind of became pregnant. she was on some pretty strong meds for her mental condition and well, I guess the doctors showed enough proof that those meds would have cause some pretty nasty birth defects because the state force this women to have an abortion against her will!!
now, I ask you...
what is the better course of action?
to abort such a baby?
to with hold the meds and let mom go into start raving lunatic mode?
or well, would you like to pay for the god knows how much money it would have cost to try to save the baby (if it was even born alive and could be saved) and repair the birth defects is had or possibly support it for the rest of it's life?
come on now, it's such a black and white issue, now isn't it?? which one do you chose??? there a lots of medications that just can't be given to pregnant women without damaging the fetus, shall we risk losing the pregnant lady to cancer for the sake of a three week old fetus she has insider her? does becoming pregnant cause the women to lose all her rights, her right to maintain a mental state that enables her to halfway function in society, her right to fight a cancer that is growing inside of her, her right to a quick end to a miscarriage of a non-viable fetus? do you wish to be the one who sits down with that women's LIVING, BREATHING, YOUNG CHILD, and explain to them why mommy's dying to give the baby a .0000000000000000000000000000000000001 chance to life???

a reply to: dawnstar

Give us a real life example. Not something made up. Preferably a video, if not some pictures with a story that can be backed up. And not just one. Give us a lot. Because you want to murder a lot of humans on your story.

Well? Start providing evidence.

a reply to: dawnstar

?? You refused to even touch on the fact that a human is a human, even if he/she is not born.

When you were in your mother's womb, did she not have the right to murder you, according to your own stance?

Why does she still not have the right?

If she still does, should not any human that doesn't want you alive not have a right to murder you?

What is your life worth? Is it not worth nothing? I mean, according to you? If you were to be murdered by your mother or another person that decided you were not fit to live anymore, what is the problem? I know. But, according to your great wisdom, what is it? What is your logic in your continued existence?

Give yourself the same right to live as any other human, even one that hasn't been born.

Do you really deserve to live? Or anyone like you who thinks it is okay to murder unborn humans?

a reply to: LifeisGrand

obviously my life doesn't have as much value as you are giving to a first trimester fetus!

I've gave you at least 7 examples!!!

and no, it's trump that seems to want to murder lots of humans, bush and company did murder lots of murders!!
since well, let's fact it, if having an abortion to save your life is murder, then most certainly making up a bunch of lies to justify bombing villages halfway around the world and killing millions most certainly is!

you think you are trying to give the same rights to the fetus as the living has, but in reality, well, the fetus cannot have the same rights at the mother has, since well, sometimes their rights might oppose each other, like the REAL lady that I knew with the mental problems, or the REAL teenager who had lukemia, or the REAL MOTHER, who had lupus and failing kidneys! or the real mother in poland who's doctors warned the courts that the pregnancy would cause her to go blind, and well, now she is trying to care for a few LIVING, BREATHING CHILDREN, she will never clearly see grow up!

if you don't want to acknowledge the real risks involved with pregnancy then well, you have no business condemning women you know nothing about for opting their lives over the life that is forming inside her.
especially when many in the same camp were so gun hoe when it came to protecting their interests from a made up threat and were willing to bomb kids to oblivion in a country half way around the world!

The controversial property tycoon caused a new storm this week with his claim he is not willing “to take it off the table” when quizzed over whether he would use America’s nuclear arsenal against Europe.

Trump, the frontrunner to win the Republican nomination for November’s presidential election, yesterday repeated his pledge when tackled on a radio phone-in.

He told ‘The O’Reilly Factor’: “I don't want to take cards off the table, I'd never do that."

Despite claiming “the last person to press that button would be me”, Trump added: “Europe is a big place. I'm not going to take cards off the table.”

www.express.co.uk...

a reply to: dawnstar

Again I am not standing up for Trump. He is wrong, just as I am wrong. Just as your are wrong. What happens, is when a person who is wrong gets into power, or their ideas, a lot of people die.

If you are wrong on abortion, and it is happening, millions of murders happen. Correct?

That has nothing to do with Trump.

People seem to be hating on him right now, because he realized that abortion is murder. Are you not one of those people? One of the people that thinks that abortion is okay? Why didn't your mother abort you? If she did, that would have been okay correct? If not then? Why not now? If she had the choice to murder you when you were born in the womb?

If you were murdered by anyone else, what is the real difference? If you didn't have the right to life as a human in your mom's womb, why do you have the right to life now?

Now don't start with: I wasn't a human in my mommy's womb. If you were to take the DNA of any, any fetus aborted and checked it to see if it was human what would be the result? The question isn't whether you killed a human right?

What gives you the right to life over other unborn humans?

What?

If they are human and you can murder them. Why can't you be murdered? What is the difference?

a reply to: LifeisGrand

first off, if my mom had decided to abort me, I probably would have never known...
second, hey can you prove to me that if she had aborted me, I wouldn't have just found myself another vessel to spend a lifetime in, hey, maybe this one would have been inside a women who wasn't an alchoholic who raised me in bars, heck maybe that other vessel would have been a kennedy!! gee, how much better would my life have been then.

and gee, with all my mom's flaws, she sure did her best to raise us kids, we probably would have been lost without her, wonder just how my older siblings would have felt if she lose her life trying to give birth to me... gee, maybe if I was able to know things as the small little developing fetus in my mothers tummy, and well, knew that I threatened her life and would cause such problems for my siblings to be, maybe, just maybe I would opt out and go searching for another vessels, one that would live at least long enough to raise me!

just what, if anything, should trump that fetus' life in your opinion? should the mothers own life? what about the welfare of the children she is caring for? if she is working a job that is not conducive to a developing baby, and those kids' food are coming from that paycheck she is earning, does their right to eat trump it?
or are you placing the rights of that fetus above everyone else's??
I mean, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that abortion is sometimes quite necessary for the sake of the mother.
so well is anything more important to you than the life of that fetus? is a destined to be dead fetus so danged important to you that you will risk the life of the mother by waiting around for the fetus to die of natural causes while she struggles through a miscarriage instead of helping her? really??? so nice to know you value women so highly!!!

a reply to: dawnstar

You know I remember reading about a mamma cat. There was a fire in a house. And the momma cat walked into the fire five times, to take out her five kittens.

On the same page I read about a human woman who had buried her newborn baby in the trashcan outside her house hoping it would die.

Who was more human? The mama cat who was willing to die for her children? Or the human woman wanting to kill her offspring?

I will tell you, the cat did what she did out of instinct.

The woman tried to kill her offspring out of free-will. And the cat was better than the woman.

If I was a woman and I knew my child was going to die if I lived I would give my life for my child.

I have done so. I have done it. So there is no question. If woman acted on instincts, she would save her child.

It takes freewill to murder a child of a woman. For her instincts clearly should tell her she should sacrifice herself for ther child. A man would do the same thing every day and two days on weekends.

Parents should willingly sacrifice themselves for their children. Human parents. That shouldn't even be a call. It should be so natural that you don't even have to think about it.

a reply to: LifeisGrand


hmm... ya know what, I remember somewhere how in some parts of the world, there are people who are willing to sell one of their children into slavery so that the rest of the family can have a decent meal!!! and ya know what?? this has gone on throughout history!!!

look if someone in that position wants to sacrifice their life they are free to! (and this still doesn't address the fact that in tx now, doctors can't intervene when women miscarries as long as there's a fetal heartbeat, or the fact that catholic hospitals just refuse to, even when they know it's impossible for the baby to survive) but well, where do you get off making that decision for strangers? you can't understand why a mother, who feels that she is alone with no one to turn to who has a few kids that she is responsible might not see things the same way?? and all this talk about sacrifice, I don't think they can still do it, but back in the day, I seen a few guys just not able to get up in the morning and head to work once they say the child support taken out of their paychecks! instead, they just kind of slipped on the ice, or whatever, and went on disability.... they just couldn't sacrifice a small amount of money for their children! but oh, ya, momma should be willing to sacrifice all! okay, gotcha!

but, well, since women's rights are so disposable in society's eyes in today's world, their contribution to their living breathing families so replacible, may I suggest on thing to all the women out there of childbearing age? DON'T HAVE SEX UNLESS YOU WANT TO HAVE BABIES SO BADLY THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE FOR THEM! since well, that is just what society might expect from you!

oh, and ya, if you husband has a fit about this and well, gives you that religious line about your submissive role tell him that you were told by the religious not to have sex if you didn't want to have kids!

a reply to: dawnstar

I don't know what doctors you've been to. But, no, you are wrong. Don't even try to believe a man when he says your unborn human child is going to die. It has been said so many times and so many times has been wrong.

As far as abortion is okay because it is not a human. Don't even start that. Take a fetus of any aborted unborn child to be tested and ask if it was human or not. Le them tell you what you murdered.

ETA:

I feel bad for you, because I think you are understanding the truth. And you are in a relation that sucks. Nevertheless, it does not discount the truth. Only, if you had me as a dad, or as a boyfriend, or even as a father-in-law, you would not be where you are. As I would always tell you as it is. Just as I do everyone.

When Taylor Mahaffey was 20 weeks pregnant, she was told by a doctor that she was going into labor and her baby boy had no chance of survival outside the womb. The baby, who had been named Fox, was already pushing through Mahaffey’s cervix with his feet, The Daily Beast reports. Emergency measures to stop preterm labor failed. “The only humane thing to do at that point would be to pop the sack, and let little Fox come into this world too early to survive outside,” Daniel Mahaffey, Taylor’s husband, wrote on Reddit.

Inducing labor at this stage, however, would have been tantamount to a late-term abortion. Because Texas bans abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy — unless a woman’s life is in danger or severe fetal abnormalities are detected — doctors had no choice but to send the Mahaffeys home to wait while their baby died slowly in utero. “These laws made my wife feel our child struggle inside her for days,” Daniel wrote. “We cried ourselves to sleep every night. We spent four days in and out of the hospital waiting for nature to take it’s [sic] course.” Eventually, Taylor’s waters broke and she gave birth to Fox, who was stillborn.

nytlive.nytimes.com...

The woman inside the ambulance was miscarrying. That was clear from the foul-smelling fluid leaving her body. As the vehicle wailed toward the hospital, a doctor waiting for her arrival phoned a specialist, who was unequivocal: the baby would die. The woman might follow. Induce labor immediately.

But staff at the Mercy Health Partners hospital in Muskegon, Michigan would not induce labor for another 10 hours. Instead, they followed a set of directives written by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that forbid terminating a pregnancy unless the mother is in grave condition. Doctors decided they would delay until the woman showed signs of sepsis—a life-threatening response to an advanced infection—or the fetal heart stopped on its own.

In the end, it was sepsis. When the woman delivered, at 1:41 a.m., doctors had been watching her temperature climb for more than eight hours. Her infant lived for 65 minutes.

This story is just one example of how a single Catholic hospital risked the health of five different women in a span of 17 months, according to a new report leaked to the Guardian.

The report, by a former Muskegon County health official, Faith Groesbeck, accuses Mercy Health Partners of forcing five women between August 2009 and December 2010 to undergo dangerous miscarriages by giving them no other option.

www.motherjones.com...

Catholic hospital administrators argued they shouldn’t be held responsible after one of the hospitals under their control followed the bishops’ policies and refused to provide proper information and medical care to a woman in the middle of a miscarriage. Tamesha Means was 18 weeks pregnant when her water broke, and she rushed to the only hospital in the area for treatment.

Unfortunately, it was a Catholic hospital, and because of the bishops’ rules, the hospital didn’t tell Means that the pregnancy was doomed and that the safest course was an abortion. The hospital sent her home — not once, but twice — while she was in excruciating pain and developing an infection. Only once she began to deliver during her third visit did the hospital start providing care. Tamesha sued, and the hospital administrators argued that because of their religious beliefs, her case should be thrown out. The judge agreed, but neither Tamesha nor the ACLU is giving up. We have filed an appeal and will keep fighting to prevent other women from being denied appropriate medical treatment when they go to the hospital.

3. There is no such thing as a life-saving abortion.
The families of the 650 women who die each year of pregnancy-related complications would beg to differ with the bishops on this one, as would major medical organizations. But, the bishops nevertheless used this argument against a proposal that would require federal contractors to provide their employees with health insurance coverage for life-saving abortions. The bishops said the universe of abortions necessary to save a woman’s life “comprises an empty set.”

That claim would come as a big surprise to Savita Halappanavar’s husband, who is still grieving the loss of his wife. Savita died after rushing to a hospital in Ireland when she was miscarrying at 17 weeks. The hospital refused to provide a life-saving abortion, noting that Ireland is a Catholic country.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

if someone's is miscarrying a 17 weeks, or 20 even, the fetus isn't going to survive...
so try again!!!

a reply to: dawnstar

???

This thread isn't about what happened to you. Or what you did.

a reply to: LifeisGrand

actually, I am a close to 60 year old widow, and a mother of three adult sons...
I kind of remember the pre-roe days, I also remember the many large families of 6 or 7, sometimes more kids.
I also know my family's history, there were quite of few women in it that well, died in childbirth...
I also know what it's like to not have the funds to have adequate medical attention, to be told by the gov't that you make too much money to get any help and well be told by mathematics that you certainly can't afford it.
want to hear a good story...
first I was one of those christians that was kind of brainwashed into thinking that women were supposed to be subservient to their husbands.... I felt it was wrong to deny his sex.. well after the third child, I kind of started unbrainwashing myself, but well, sex was still a pretty important part in the marriage to my husband. well, I went through monopause without really noticing, or at least I assume that was what happened. this was also during the time that I had quit my job because of problems with me feet, which well eventually one ankle broke and I was left in bed being told by a surgeon that I would need to come up with a few thousand dollars as a down payment before he would do the surgery... well, after going through all that, I wasn't a very happy person to say the least. when my monthly stopped arriving, I told my husband I thought I was pregnant, and since we couldn't afford the medical care, no, I wasn't going to a doctor. Eventually I figured out more than likely I wasn't pregnant, and well, still didn't go to the doctors. so well, either it was menopause or something else. but I made danged sure that my husband knew that if I was pregnant, he would be delivering that baby!
so that's my story.