Black English Vernacular (BEV)

Also known as AAVE (African American Vernacular English), BEV is the relatively uniform dialect spoken by the majority of black youth in most parts of the United States today, especially in inner city areas.

In my Anthropology course, a classmate of mine asserted that it was a very real dialect. However, to my knowledge, it has no roots in any culture or language. Nobody else in the world talks like that. The only culture that is united by it is the culture of inner city black youths. By definition it serves as a form of resistance against the dominant culture of the United States of America. I think that it is a form of reverse discrimination--it alienates black youths from society. This, of course, possibly gives rise to the high illiteracy and gang violence rates in inner city areas.

Let's be honest. BEV/AAVE is difficult for people who are not a part of the culture of the inner city to understand. Similar to how foreign immigrants whose first language is not English might be difficult to understand. That's not rascist--it's just true. Besides, race doesn't exist. There is NO biological evidence for it because blood cannot be subdivided. Unlike legal foreign immigrants, who try very hard to do their civic duty and try very hard to speak English properly, black inner city youths don't try at all. That is what BEV/AAVE is.

Then, it is no wonder that these areas have a lower income and an inability to find better occupations. Our speech habits help determine our access to employment and other material resources. Proper language is a strategic resource and a path to wealth, prestige, and power. Consider the skill that is necessary for oration and rhetoric in politics--or in any occupation or field, for that matter!

--And that goes for everyone. The same type of discrimination happens within the dominant culture and creates social stratification.

Not being able to understand something almost always inevitably gives rise to some sort of misunderstanding. Combined with fear of violence (black on black crime is the primary issue), the dominant culture has no choice but to feel unsure about some parts of the black community. It has less to do with color and more to do with fear of the unknown. And that isn't the dominant culture's fault. Personal responsibility is a must--as is integrity.

I think that this quote by Zora Neale Hurston in Their Eyes Were Watching God fits my views on this matter:

"He’s liable tuh do it too, Hicks. Ah hope so anyhow. Us colored folks is too envious of one ’nother. Dat’s how come us don’t git no further than us do . Us talks about de white man keepin’ us down! Shucks! He don’t have tuh. Us keeps our own selves down.”

What are yours?

~Rukia

Yes, there are urban dialects. It actually varies quit a bit based on geography. Southern slang is different from West Coast which is different from Northeast which is different from Midwest. Even areas within certain geography can be a little different.

This is why so many white folks don't understand rap or the lyrical genius of many MCs. They have no idea what they are talking about so they don't appreciate the mastery of the language and rhyme.

It really is a different language to some degree. I am fluent in it. However, my parents would only let me speak proper English at home, so it really is like a second language to me.

At one point, I saw a job opening at the FBI for a translator. They were looking for someone to translate wire taps of drug dealers because they couldn't understand the slang being used. I was going to apply for kicks.

Your assessment is correct though. It can be a hindrance if you don't know how to speak properly.

a reply to: rukia

This gave me pause. Very interesting. You opened a door that I did not know was there.

a reply to: rukia

Yes as I have said it is important for a wo/man to be heard and understood which is why I believe improving vocabulary and reading and writing is a must and everyday activity.

There is also something that goes hand and hand with this type speech a strange philosophy that seems mysterious mainly because it makes no sense, but it is characterized by narassasicm, fringe leftist mantra in combination with conspiracy, and a victim mentality yet also at the same time bellicose. It is strange when I see and hear it and often it's disjointed, but if you've ever seen this "street wisdom" you would know exactly what I am talking about, and just how ridiculous it is. in fact when I hear it I shut folks down and tell them to stop talking to me, I don't want to hear your rambling.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: rukia

Yes as I have said it is important for a wo/man to be heard and understood which is why I believe improving vocabulary and reading and writing is a must and everyday activity.

There is also something that goes hand and hand with this type speech a strange philosophy that seems mysterious mainly because it makes no sense, but it is characterized by narassasicm, fringe leftist mantra in combination with conspiracy, and a victim mentality yet also at the same time bellicose. It is strange when I see and hear it and often it's disjointed, but if you've ever seen this "street wisdom" you would know exactly what I am talking about, and just how ridiculous it is. in fact when I hear it I shut folks down and tell them to stop talking to me, I don't want to hear your rambling.

The flip side of this is that I've seen millennials who cannot write a coherent sentence without using emoticons and twitter short hand.

a reply to: bucsarg

Thank you. I'm glad that I made this thread, then

a reply to: Edumakated

Oh my goodness, for real. I was born in the early 90's and while some of the millennials are nice, largely they are quite vapid, it seems. But the world's going to hell in a hand-basket already, and my generation isn't the smartest, either. Idiots, idiots everywhere

I'm not even sure if "Black English Vernacular" is an appropriate description of that dialect anymore, it has almost become synonymous with poverty in many cities. These days you see just as many white kids and hispanic kids talking in that dialect.

The funny thing is that these "lower class" dialects sometimes end up becoming the dominant dialect of a country or region. 1200 years ago the people spoke "Classical Latin" in the region that is now Italy, but the lower class developed their own dialect of Latin they was referred to as "Vulgar Latin." Vulgar Latin became the Italian language. A few hundred years later and most people didn't understand classical latin at all, but the Vatican still delivered their sermons in Latin because speaking in "vulgar Latin" wasn't respectable. In a couple hundred years BEV might be closer to whatever language Americans speak than classical english.

It would be funny if American churches started doing the same thing the Vatican does with Latin, Mormon churches and Baptist churches delivering their sermons in modern english to a congregation that can't understand anything they're saying.

a reply to: rukia

I also meant to say great thread and well put together , it will be hard for the accusation of racism to bare fruit.

My aunt taught English as a second language in a major urban high school.
Many of her students were new immigrants from other countries, but there were quite a few that were African American that spoke AAVE and could not function well enough in the educational system to get by with the dialect that they spoke.
Sad but true.

As a black guy:

1) I can tell when someone is black just by their voice, even if they speak proper English. There is a tonal difference in the voice and blacks who speak proper English typically have a slightly different pronunciations. However, I don't think the reverse is true where white people can tell if someone is black or not (assuming they are speaking proper english). Correct me if I am wrong.

2) Middle and upper class blacks typically can speak ebonics or whatever you want to call it, but by in large it is discouraged. Many of us grew up in areas where you still needed to know slang, but since it was not necessarily encouraged at home, we don't speak it unless we are around friends in the hood.

3) The more you read and write, the less you feel compelled to talk in any kind of slang. Reading and writing significantly increases one vocabulary and helps you learn sentence structure.

4) Children typically emulate their parents. If the parents don't know how to speak proper English, then the kids will not speak proper english. Unfortunately, because schools are so bad in these areas, even the teachers don't correct the kids.

I must have been smacked 10,000 times by my parents for saying "Ax" instead of "Ask" as a child.

a reply to: rukia

I once was in Wendy's and a bunch of black women were trying to order their food in ebonics and getting mad at the Latina woman who couldn't understand them.

I almost spoke up and said "if you spoke proper English like she (the cashier) has learned, maybe you'd get your food".

I also witnessed a black school children outing one day at the metro. The black teachers were speaking ebonics to the kids.

Why do black people feel that following the rules of society and speach is "acting white"?

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: rukia

I once was in Wendy's and a bunch of black women were trying to order their food in ebonix and getting mad at the Latina woman who couldn't understand them.

I almost spoke up and said "if you spoke proper English like she (the cashier) has learned, maybe you'd get your food".

I also witnessed a black school children outing one day at the metro. The black teachers were speaking ebonix to the kids.

Why do black people feel that following the rules of society and speach is "acting white"?

Is "acting black" equal to acting like an animal?

It is acceptance of progressive liberalism run amok. You are seeing the fruits of accepting this nonsense since the 60s. Resulted in complete and utter breakdown of black family life and exacerbated social dysfunction.

a reply to: Edumakated

I'd really like an honest answer why black people feel that following the rules of society is "acting white".

There was once a thread about black people being unproportionately put in jail.

Well, if 98% of them would use their damn turning signals maybe they wouldn't get pulled over so much? Or any of the other laws black people refuse to obey.

I have had to use Urban dictionary on more than one occasion.

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Edumakated

I'd really like an honest answer why black people feel that following the rules of society is "acting white".

There was once a thread about black people being unproportionately put in jail.

Well, if 98% of them would use their damn turning signals maybe they wouldn't get pulled over so much? Or any of the other laws black people refuse to obey.

The short answer is ignorance. The long answer is that you have to understand the history of slavery and oppression. There were "house slaves" and "field slaves". Often times the house slaves lived better than the field slaves. They may have been the offspring of the slave master. There would often times be resentment. I believe it is connected to this dynamic.

Many lower classes saw themselves as being abandoned by the black elite. At some point in our history, we became to equate education, proper english, etc as selling out. Of course, this is ironic because we used to value education to the point we were willing to risk death learning how to read.

I've never been one to use it as a crutch, but at the same time, there are areas in the black psyche that have been affected by our unique history of oppression. This cannot be ignored.

a reply to: Edumakated

well said

According to my Structure and Function of English prof (Linguistics 101), in order to be a dialect of English it basically only requires that you have the basic grammar rules of the language; the words used don't have to be any form of English you or I might recognize. According to this, there are dialects of English in the Asian East that are functionally English, but use mainly words from the various languages of the Asian countries.

In short, you and I would be lost even though the grammar would be familiar.

"Ebonics" (the last word I thought we were supposed to call it by) does qualify as a dialect in that sense. The thing is that it is not the main dialect of the larger country or culture as a whole, so if the only language one speaks is that dialect, one is more or less barred from entering wider society at a functional level. That doesn't mean you can't know the dialect; it just means you better understand the dialect of wider society too. I can swap back and forth between straight talk and country twang depending on which of my relatives I am interacting with, but I wouldn't dare use country twang in the office.

The multi-culti PC insistence that we cater to this particular dialect ignores the fact that we do not produce our literature in it aside from occasional characters written colloquially (and the aforementioned Rap and Hip-Hop), nor do we write in it for day to day communications. The corporate and business worlds are not going to suddenly embrace it. Indeed, they are more likely to shift to Chinese and away from English entirely than they are to shift to "Ebonics." Heck, they'd go to Spanish first.

So to lock kids away in this dialect as their only accepted form of communication is to lock them away from the world, IMO.

Perhaps a trip to country would help their language skills.

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Edumakated

Well, if 98% of them would use their damn turning signals maybe they wouldn't get pulled over so much? Or any of the other laws black people refuse to obey.

I got this one I had a laborer working for me a 60 year old black man who one day I told him to use his blinkers because we were in a company truck. His response was "you going to find a reason to fire me and it ain't nobody's bidness where I be going" A fewweeks later he was gone for not showing up for a week.

a reply to: Edumakated

So since my people were decimated at a rate that I have no idea what exact tribe I'm from and the fact my great grandmother squa was kidnapped by my not-so-great white grandfather I now should be able to flaunt the rules of society?

I appreciate your candid response but imo it's a cop out.