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Lets settle this! Would the UK have survived WW2 without the USA.

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posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 03:39 AM
a reply to: cavtrooper7

At the time of the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin wanted nothing to do with a war with Germany. He'd purged too many Generals, and didn't really trust the ones that were left. So his military hierarchy was in a shambles essentially.

Many of his commanders weren't any better, or worse, then their opposition. Though there were exceptions. Mannheim. Kesselring. Geuderian (sp?). ...and a few others. You'll notice I don't have Rommel on that list? I've always considered him a bit over-rated...not a bad commander by any stretch, but not the greatest thing since sliced bread that he's been all too often treated as.

Actually, as far as his interference with weapons manufacturing goes? Shouldn't have touched that.

Insane? Yeah. I'd go along with that...

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 03:48 AM
a reply to: Chadwickus
Nah, England basically begged the USA for help. You are spot on though about invading the Russians that was wonky on Germany's behalf.

"In July 1940 newly appointed Prime Minister Churchill requested help from FDR, after Britain had sustained the loss of 11 destroyers to the German Navy over a 10-day period. Roosevelt responded by exchanging 50 destroyers for 99-year leases on British bases in the Caribbean and Newfoundland. A major foreign policy debate erupted over whether the United States should aid Great Britain or maintain strict neutrality.


Looks like begging, the warships given BTW were ones that the USA considered obsolete before entering WW2. The UK absolutely needed the USA, its either a revisionist idea which I wouldn't accuse my friend crazyewok of doing but its #ing crazy because it was the UK that requested help and the USA helped by breaking laws and the constitution to do so to help.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 03:51 AM
Without the food supplies and raw materials to make war from the US the UK wouldn't have lasted very long. We would have starved ourselves to death before the Germans ever set foot on our soil though, that's just how we roll here. lol.

Seriously though, Not a chance would Britain have held out.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:08 AM

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Without the food supplies and raw materials to make war from the US the UK wouldn't have lasted very long. We would have starved ourselves to death before the Germans ever set foot on our soil though, that's just how we roll here. lol.

Seriously though, Not a chance would Britain have held out.

Yes but they were not givin as Aid or charity.

All that was paid for so I would class that as trade.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:12 AM
a reply to: Brotherman

Of course we asked for help.

Why fight a war on your own you probably will win with heavy losses when you can asked help and fight a war you defiantly will win with medium losses?

USA asked for UK help in Iraq. Doesn't mean the USA would of failed without us.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:22 AM

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I had thought that Russia was massing ,or preparing to so Hitler might have reacted to that.
Hitler is MOSTLY why Germany lost in MY opinion.
Turning down advanced weapons for production in favor of known tech,NOT really listening to his BRILLIANT commanders.
AND finally being basicly insane in the first place.

If hitter had allied with Russia instead of invaded we all would have been screwed.

UK would be speaking German and the U.S. and Canada a mixture of German ,Russian and Japanese.

Still all three would of turned on each other.
JAPAN would have gone down first then Germany and Russia would of fought a nuclear war that would of made mankind extinct.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:30 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

Dude, that would be the most epic summer blockbuster movie evah!

Especially the end battle, A random question though, has Japan always been into extreme fetishes? or did those 2 atom bombs do something to their psyche? I'm looking at you every freaky Japanese video I've watched on the internets, all in the name of research I assure you.

edit on 31-3-2016 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 04:32 AM
a reply to: Lysergic

I copy write it first!

Il write a diesel/atomic punk movie on that premise

edit on 31-3-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 06:12 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

Seen this argument so many times before here on ATS and I think its fair to say that we'll never come to a general consensus of opinion.....and at the end of the day that's all it'll ever be - opinions.

But there are some facts;

Britain, and her Commonwealth allies, had won The Battle of Britain and had overwhelming air superiority.
As a result a German invasion of the UK mainland was never going to happen.

The UK had become reliant on supplies from outside of the UK - primarily but not exclusively from the USA.

The USA was charging exorbitant amounts for these supplies and was making a hell of a lot of money by also supplying arms to both sides of the war.

Neither the USA or Soviet Russia entered the war to help fight the war against fascism.

Germany declared war on the USA - not the other way round.
Would the USA have declared war against Germany?
Probably not, President Roosevelt wanted to but public opinion was against getting involved, other than making a profit out of it.

Stalin had made a pact with Hitler.
If Germany had not attacked Russia then Stalin would have maintained that pact for as long as possible whilst building up Russian forces in readiness for the inevitable confrontation.

So, would the UK have survived?
Most definitely yes.

Would they have won?
I suspect there would have become some sort of stalemate and the UK and Germany would eventually have agreed some sort of peace.

But it is worth noting that at no point did the USA choose to enter the war, Japan attacked the USA thus commencing war and Germany declared war on the USA - the USA thus had no option but to fight.

They weren't the Knight in Shining Armour riding to the defence of 'the free world', they were forced into it.

The only countries that declared war on Germany and who chose to oppose Hitler were the UK and her Commonwealth allies from Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, Canada.... oh, and the French, for a while.

However, it is also worth mentioning that we do owe an eternal debt of gratitude to all those brave men who served against the Axis forces and paid the ultimate sacrifice, regardless of nationality.

And only a fool wouldn't agree that if it wasn't for US involvement 'we' would never have completely defeated and routed Hitler to the extent that 'we' did.

edit on 31/3/16 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 06:15 AM
In short, no we would not.

Quite simply, without US supplies we would simply have run out of steam.

In terms of manpower, firepower, etc, we would have been fine (thanks to the Commonwealth) but without raw materials, it would have been over much quicker and i would typing now whilst wearing lederhosen.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 06:31 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

No, we would have lost by 1943 or at the latest 44 to be optimistic in a protracted military engagement without US backing and logistical supplies, likely the germans would have brought our country to it's knee's in very short order as there blockade on steel and resources strangled our war effort and even more so as they starved our country to death since we only ever had about ten days to a fortnight's worth of food in the country and can not self sustain and rely on imports even today to feed our population, we also would not have been able to help the Russian's with our north atlantic convoys so they too would have vanished and Russia would then have been set back up to a year in there regrouping from the German attack's and quite possibly would then have lost the war.

History say's No and Logistic's say's No.

The best we could have hoped for was what Hitler initially wanted, to become part of his Axis and let Mosely and his brown shirts take the prime minister's position as proxy to the Nazi's whom would have had there SS and Gestapo patrolling our street's with impunity, even Franco of Spain might have come off the fence and joined in the attack on Britain starting with the fortress of Gibralter.

Remember it was not just us they Yank's saved, it was the french, the Belgian's, the Dutch, the Norwegian's and the Dane's and how many young American's died, they were only kid's and yet they lay down there lives for us so I actually am quite insulted by this insult to there memory they shed blood for us and so are our family more than any one in europe is.

It is possible that Russia given it's sheer size would have survived and eventually counter attacked but by that time the German's would have had the bomb, it was not one of the wonder weapons and they started development very early, we were ahead of them but would likely have lost by that point and our research then may have boosted the Nazi effort just as it did the Manhatten project, in fact we led the world in Atomic research at that point and when we gave our research the US they had been in third place behind the Nazi's in development schedule.

Also our superior jet Engine which was developed in the late 30's before the Germans would have ended up in a german aircraft and our superior Radar also.

The British government were so convinced we were going to lose the war they had moved the gold reserves of the bank of England up to Liverpool and they were kept in the old corn exchange building, a camouflaged ring of steel had been set up to defend liverpool from land based attack and slow the germans when they came, it was to be shipped along with the cabinet via belfast to Canada.
edit on 31-3-2016 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 07:48 AM
My gran served in the women's land army, she used to love telling me stories about the war. She always said the Americans were cocky and arrogant, the only thing they were good at was dancing LOL
She used to sneak out after blackout to go dancing with them because like everyone knows, british blokes are good at brawling and invading/conquering other countries but we really cant dance

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 08:12 AM
a reply to: LABTECH767

Cry me a freaking river.

USA helped but didn't "save" us any more than we saved them. We worked together.

It's a insult to lump us in with with the likes of France, Belgium et al
They did need saving. Saving by the JOINT efforts of the UK, USA and commonwealth
edit on 31-3-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-3-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 08:56 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

Actually We WOULD have lost without them that is a fact not an opinion but take it or leave it you have your own brain.
As for fighting together, My uncles fought in Burma against the jap's, my grandfather was torpedoed three time's and lost three ships along with many of his mates, other members of the family were killed here in the air raid's, on instance two brothers were walking down the road and a bomb litterally made a direct hit on one, the other was dazed but not injured as one minute his brother was beside him and the next he was gone so like many familys in the uk and still other died fighting, William Beverly flight SGT my mother cousin was shot down and killed, My nan had a spy or saboteur renting the loft and when the police came they took him away, he was shining a light in the blackout, a torch for the german bombers, My other grandfather was British military intelligence.

Before he and Bill both lied about there age and joined the army (he was 15 and bill was also too young) Alfie picked up a live ticking bomb that had landed on the front door step and carried it to a nearby open space, a field were it later exploded, during the war Alphy (Alfred Taylor my uncle) was injured with a bayonette in his side, he was only a small guy, 5 foot tall and had lied about his age being only a kid, he was fighting hand to hand with the japs in the jungle and took that bayonette in his side, he suffered maleria and my mother always tells me it was like he thought he was back there, he would be in a fever and shout "Get the little yellow Ba%^ard, get him, he's up the tree, he's up the tree" so I assume that was probably a sniper he helped to take out on that occasion.
After the war Bill Taylor (whom was not the nicest of people believe me but on this I agree with him) sat in a pub with his wife and kid's, two other demobbed soldiers were swearing foul mouthed and he did not like it as he had his wife and kid's with him and it was only dinner time, he asked them politely to stop as they had all served and seen action but they laughed at him and continued, now bill was 5'4" (I am over six foot so it was probably malnourishment as our people were not the best fed in the world) got up and walked over to these two docker sized lad's and banged there heads together like a pair of coconuts knocking them both out cold, apparently the pub actually cheered, this was Liverpool.

So don't think you know more than me or that you have more right to your opinion than I do mine.
Without the Yank's we would have been brown bread, yes we helped them and yes change a few variables and maybe we would have been able to but in the event the die was cast the way it was and we could not have survived without them.

edit on 31-3-2016 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 09:02 AM
a reply to: LABTECH767

No it's not "fact"

Just opinion.

A opinion you have a right to but not any more "fact" than mine.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 09:04 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

Ha, so we agree on that point at least?.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 10:43 AM

originally posted by: Aliensun


a reply to: crazyewok

Survived, yes, speaking German at the behest of Hitler. But let's just not stop with the UK. Would the world not have been in the hands of the Nazi and the Japanese if not for the US? (Actually, they probably would be speaking Russian because without the US entering the fray, The Soviets would have eventually defeated the Nazis and eventually would have marched across Europe (racing through France, of course,) and tackled the UK on their home field.)

Or we can ask the question in another way from the OP's way: How would the UK have survived on its own and that means without the millions of dollars worth of free "lend lease" materials that the US supplied.

This really is a no brain and I'm quite willing to let it go but if not for those that claim that the UK was merely starting to get its second wind after Dunkirk.

'millions of dollars worth of free "lend lease" materials that the US supplied.'

Really? Really? Is that part of the bill (with interest) that was finally closed in 2007? Come on, you must be smarter than that. This whole debate is hypothetical, but let's stay within some framework based on reality.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 10:48 AM
a reply to: uncommitted
Lend-lease with England at the time was sketchy and special favors were made simply because US law said that the US was not supposed to extend credit to people. The UK was still in debt to America from ww1.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 11:13 AM

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: texasyeti
No. England was losing badly.

That may or may not be true but they had the Scots and Welsh onside so all was still good.

Hear hear, it was Britain and allies that won the war, kind of not the question ewok asked, that's fine, but it was never England alone.

posted on Mar, 31 2016 @ 11:23 AM

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: uncommitted
Lend-lease with England at the time was sketchy and special favors were made simply because US law said that the US was not supposed to extend credit to people. The UK was still in debt to America from ww1.

As was most of Europe due to Hoovers nifty act of salesmanship - nothing to be proud of, but we digress.

I'm from mixed stock including a Polish grandfather who escaped from two POW camps on his way across Europe to join the RAF after the Polish air force had been fairly much destroyed by the invading German forces, earning the Polish version of the Victoria Cross for his efforts. Although I appreciate this is an interesting debate, we should remember that the only thing all countries gave that didn't come with a bill was the lives of their men, women and children - combatants and civilians - who never got to see the end of the war. That goes for both the Allies and Axis sides.

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