Why should any educated adult believe any of the stone age religions are anything but make believe?

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Atheists are mortified of the possibility of God being real because of accountability for sin.

Really? I disagree. They aren't "atheists" so that they can go around "sinning" without conscience or consequences. That's ridiculous. Most Atheists//Agnostics are more moral, compassionate, and naturally inclined to be productive, helpful, and kind to others - we don't labor under the 'fear of hell', or the 'promise of heaven.' We just go day to day, trying to be the best person we can. We only have evidence that there is just us, on this lonely planet, with no "overlord" or "caretaker" or some moody "judge" watching us from somewhere..... like a corporate CEO who can axe any one of us at any time. That's just not realistic. (Sure, human tyrant CEOs can do that, can even rip the jobs out from thousands of people at a time - but they are not "gods." And no real "Benevolent God" would ever do such a thing. It's preposterous.)

and what is a "sin", anyway? Eating meat on a Friday? Masturbating? Finding someone attractive? Thinking "mean" thoughts? Standing up for one's self?
The obvious ones are harming someone else emotionally, physically, or mentally, and doing it ON PURPOSE and without remorse during or after the act. That's really all that matters.

Everything else that is "forbidden" by imaginary "gods" falls into the category of human-invented control mechanisms.


Karma I believe in - that sort of justice, the circle of life. "God"? No. Not so much. I believe we are all connected - part of a symbiotically living unit; like the microbes in our own bodies are a part of us, we are part of the deep ecology of the planet, and our planet is a part of the larger universe.....all necessary, none being "monitored." There's no thinking, anthropomorphic entity watching our every breath. This isn't "The Truman Show."

And if it is, "God" is a jackass anyway, and I wouldn't want to "spend eternity" with him.
Fortunately for me, "God" has not infected me with belief and paranoia. Only with reason, empathy, compassion, and a moral compass, from birth.

originally posted by: svetlana84
a reply to: Macenroe82

I know the saying "There are no atheists in the trenches".

But especially when things get hard, the best to believe in is yourself.

Because ultimately it will be each owns actions which make them overcome hard times amd not some imaginary being.

That is why there are religions though because some people (most!) are not strong enough to believe in themselves. Now if they need a crutch in life which they call God then fine let them. My problem starts when this self delusion manifests itself as a dangerous confrontation (my God is right your God is wrong) or where we non believers are "worse" than the devil himself and treated as such.

That is ridiculous

Not at all.

I do not need an imaginary being outside myself to be aware I am part of a society.

I confirmed that already.

A society of rules for the betterment of humanity.

That remains to.be seen.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: randyvs

What I do ponder often tho,
my fellow member, is how many atheists are mortified by the possibility that
there is a God. Because I'm convinced and that's what scares the crap out of me.

Really not sure of your meaning her.

You ponder how many 'atheists' are mortified by the possibility? No, sweetie..they don't even entertain the idea.

So - they are mortified "because you're convinced"?
and that scares you?

Why?
I don't get it. Their beliefs and eventual fate are no concern of yours.....they have no interest in ideas of God. They are indifferent.

I can tell you exactly what he meant. Atheists are mortified of the possibility of God being real because of accountability for sin.

If I have to be accountable to something outside myself, I'd say that is a problem. Also an excuse.

I had an epiphany when I made that final step completely out of the "God Circle". I felt free, like a huge weight was lifted off me.

And I realized I had not been living my life for the good of life and mankind. I had been living my life in fear or pissing off an imaginary being.

IMO, God belief is very debilitating.

You are definitely being fully deceived then, and you are embracing that deception because it gives the gift of not being accountable, and not being accountable is the driving force behind all of the worlds leaders doing all the evil things that they do. They too don't want to have God getting in their way just like you, because living without accountability is so much fun and freedom isn't it?

More ridiculousness.

Most world leaders claim a belief in God.

There goes your argument.

Um, no, on the contrary.. World tyrants of old, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Marxist leaders, Cuban leader, and other well known communists are all Atheists.

There goes YOUR argument. I really didn't think I would need to spell it out what I was referring to, but this is the issue when confronting a denialist.

the worlds most delicate and entrancing flower could be a poison in the hands of a sadist. this only proves that nothing is invulnerable to abuse. but who claimed otherwise?

if anything, your comments indicate the true culprit...people. humans. whats the saying? kill em all and let god sort em out.

a reply to: Annee

If I have to be accountable to something outside myself, I'd say that is a problem. Also an excuse. I had an epiphany when I made that final step completely out of the "God Circle". I felt free, like a huge weight was lifted off me. And I realized I had not been living my life for the good of life and mankind. I had been living my life in fear or pissing off an imaginary being. IMO, God belief is very debilitating

.
Annee,
You hit the nail on the head and you may not even have realized it. Your entire opinion is that you refuse to be accountable to rules and regulations of life. And I believe that most all of who I have read in that same mind set are exactly as you stated. Not my affair as to preach my own opinion but simply to express that you have been the most honest of what I have seen on ATS. In that I thank you for your honesty even though My opinions may differ.

It is odd that some people have been there and done that and then walked away when compared to myself who was never there in the first place and now have walked into that life that you walked out of. I don't really believe that it has to do with intelligence at all. I have read here on ATS many people who, in my opinion, are very brilliant and well read and feel the same as you have stated. Have a great life Annee and wish you the best.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Annee

If I have to be accountable to something outside myself, I'd say that is a problem. Also an excuse. I had an epiphany when I made that final step completely out of the "God Circle". I felt free, like a huge weight was lifted off me. And I realized I had not been living my life for the good of life and mankind. I had been living my life in fear or pissing off an imaginary being. IMO, God belief is very debilitating

.
Annee,
You hit the nail on the head and you may not even have realized it. Your entire opinion is that you refuse to be accountable to rules and regulations of life. And I believe that most all of who I have read in that same mind set are exactly as you stated. Not my affair as to preach my own opinion but simply to express that you have been the most honest of what I have seen on ATS. In that I thank you for your honesty even though My opinions may differ.

It is odd that some people have been there and done that and then walked away when compared to myself who was never there in the first place and now have walked into that life that you walked out of. I don't really believe that it has to do with intelligence at all. I have read here on ATS many people who, in my opinion, are very brilliant and well read and feel the same as you have stated. Have a great life Annee and wish you the best.

en.wikipedia.org...

Narcissistic mortification is "the primitive terror of self dissolution, triggered by the sudden exposure of one's sense of a defective self [...] it is death by embarrassment”.[1] Narcissistic mortification is a term first used by Sigmund Freud in his last book, Moses and Monotheism,[2] with respect to early injuries to the ego/self. The concept has been widely employed in ego psychology and also contributed to the roots of self psychology.

When narcissistic mortification is experienced for the first time, it may be defined as a sudden loss of control over external or internal reality, or both. This produces strong emotions of terror while at the same time narcissistic libido (also known as ego-libido) or destrudo is built up.[3] Narcissistic libido or ego-libido is the concentration of libido on the self. Destrudo is the opposite of libido and is the impulse to destroy oneself and everything associated with oneself.

"death by embarrassment"...by shame and guilt. sounds an awful lot like the role sin plays in modern spirituality. how often are threads posted on this forum, talking about the shedding of ones ego and how it produces enlightenment? they make it sound so charming and sensible, but this description of destrudo is disturbing.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
When you condemned God for condemning immoral things. You can still back out of that though.

He didn't condemn God, he said he wasn't a believer because of the immoral things he did and ordered to be done in the OT, which is a fair reason. I also do not think a supreme being would act like that, so to me the bible stories are wrong or entirely metaphorical.

Oh I know, in today's world all those immoral things have faded and some are now "moral", but the truth is that they still aren't.
The laws were only insane to you because you don't understand the reasons behind them. We all deserve God to kill us all right now and completely wipe out this sinful planet, but because of what Christ did is why we are still here.

Yawn. It's always, "you don't understand god's reasons". If you believe that all of god's laws are just and should not be questioned, then you surely do not wear mixed fabrics or eat shellfish. Is this correct? After all that law is in the very same book that condemns homosexuality.

No, we don't all deserve to be murdered by god (he already did that). Maybe you do, but I live a very good benevolent moral life (WITHOUT religion). If you require religion to be a good person, then shame on you. If god exists, I do not believe he is an egomaniac that requires worship.

God did nothing wrong, but people sure did.

Committing mass murder by drowning the entire planet (included all plants and animals) in a worldwide flood is the epitome of wrong, no matter how you look at it. So god commits mass murder and orders people to do things like wipe out entire villages and rape women in the process, but eating shellfish? That is horrible and morally wrong.

If you choose unwisely, you will have no excuse on judgement day. Accountability is coming to planet Earth very soon. Good luck.

Translation:

THE END IS NEAR! BE AFRAID, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON'T REPENT ASAP!!! Yeah, I've only been hearing that for the last 2 thousand years. Judgement day is almost here this time, I swear!

Atheists are mortified of the possibility of God being real because of accountability for sin.

Nope. Despite your warped worldview causing you to hastily judge others, there is no link between atheism and fear of accountability. That's a nonsensical reason. Most atheists I know are upstanding citizens, and moral people that are unselfish and put others first. Just because YOU can't control your own morality without a religion dictating it to you, doesn't mean others cant. Sorry.

Even though it is smarter to squelch all the arrogance and grab a little humility in the process, some atheists would rather take their chances that God isn't real and continue on being their same old selves. But if they are wrong and God is real, then they are mortified of what the outcome will be.

You talk about arrogance, look in the mirror. Are you not reading your own posts? They reek of arrogance.

Pascals wager, just a fear based argument, no substance. So I should drastically alter my life and believe in fairy tails just in case the .00001% chance they might be true? That's quite a wager. What if you are wrong and Islam or Hinduism ends up being true? Then you will be in a world of hurt. The truth of the matter here is that there is just as much chance as the god of the bible being true, as there is for ancient egyptian mythology, greek mythology, etc etc etc. How do you know you are following the right thing and not a deception of the devil? You state your personal beliefs matter of fact, when they aren't facts by a long shot. You just believe it blindly, yet have the nerve to criticize others that don't buy into it. Hypocrisy much?

They too don't want to have God getting in their way just like you, because living without accountability is so much fun and freedom isn't it?

You really gotta come up with a better argument than generalize and pigeonholing all atheists into what you think they are. Atheists don't believe in god, so he can't get in their way. Your assertion that all atheists disbelieve in god just because they want to do whatever they want, is ludicrous and insulting. Why would god be a huge hypocrit going around ordering people to kill and committing genocide while telling others they are wrong if they do similar things. That would make god a huge hypocrite.

Please lose the self righteous condescending rhetoric. You are just ranting about non believers. Go back to the dark ages where that behavior was acceptable. Today we are supposed to tolerate all personal views and religions provided they don't harm others. Pigeonholing atheists when you believe your worldview out of pure 100% blind faith is laughable. Jesus taught not to judge others, yet here you are doing the exact opposite and acting like you are speaking fact, when you are really just guessing about faith.

Um, no, on the contrary.. World tyrants of old, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Marxist leaders, Cuban leader, and other well known communists are all Atheists.

LMAO. Because no Christians have ever started wars or become tyrants right? Your statement is laughably stupid, I'm sorry. Hitler was a Christian. So basically your only purpose in this thread is to insult and attack atheists. Jesus would be proud of you.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

We just go day to day, trying to be the best person we can.

BuzzyWigs! That is completely unrealistic.

Above top secret

a reply to: randyvs

First of all its not unrealistic whatsoever.

Secondly you post a link of an atheist who is responsible for a mass shooting.

Did you that atheists make up a tiny fraction of the prison population. I could post hundreds of links of theists who are murderers. Some whom would say that God told them to do it. Why shouldn't we believe them if God told Abraham to kill his own son?

a reply to: Joecanada11

First of all its not unrealistic whatsoever.

Then i guess all atheists are flower children?



The hateful atheist everybody, give him a big hand for his unbridled tongue.

a reply to: randyvs

So what??? Some athiets are angry and use foul language? Does using foul language actually harm anybody? No. You know what does harm people. Stoning them to death as God commanded. Or shunning people and telling them they are going to hell because they are attracted to people of the same sex. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE SUICIDE RATE IS AMONG GAY TEENS? AND GUESS WHAT ITS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE BIBLE AND PEOPLE USING THE BIBLE TO DISCRININATE AND PASS JUDGEMENT AND HATE.

a reply to: randyvs

What about the Christian mother who killed her 5 children by drowning them in the bathtub so they would avoid reaching the age of reason and therefore get a free ride to heaven. Does her actions mean that all Christians are evil ? Atheists can be as decent as anyone of any faith. I'm sorry but being a Christian doesn't make you a better human being than an atheist.

Here we go again.

Atheist - - lack of belief in God. That's it. Does not mean I hate God, or anti-God, or Devil worshiper - - it just means lack of belief in God.

Again, all true atheist's will also claim agnostic - - agnostic atheist - - as agnostic means God can not be proven or dis-proven. No true atheist will claim there is no God.

Now - - ATHEIST PHILOSOPHY

Atheist philosophy is the independent, individual thoughts/belief, etc of that one person. It is not connected to any other atheist - - unless so decided by choice of other atheist.

The only thing connecting atheists together is Lack of Belief in a God - - - period!

originally posted by: Joecanada11
I'm sorry but being a Christian doesn't make you a better human being than an atheist.

That's for sure.

And an atheist does it for the right reason.

a reply to: Annee


Not out of fear. That's for sure. And I agree that I can't prove that God doesn't exist. I would love to believe in fact I did at one time until I started reading the bible more and thinking about what it actually said.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Annee


Not out of fear. That's for sure. And I agree that I can't prove that God doesn't exist. I would love to believe in fact I did at one time until I started reading the bible more and thinking about what it actually said.

Exactly.

Actually, I considered being a minister. But, I wanted proof of Jesus before I would make any claims about him.

There is no proof.

a reply to: Joecanada11

My intent wasn't to start some childish little tit for tat comparison.
But rather to rip the angel wings off that Buzzy was trying to accommodate
to all atheists. So what if an atheist kills three Muslims, who cares if a
"Christian" mother kills her kids. Human beings killing each other is a
sickening thing. Despite the motivation. The fact of the matter is we kill
each other for any reason. It began in the garden. But before that, God
was pleased and said it was good. We chose our own way after that and
things are looking worse everyday. You people must have blinders on.

a reply to: randyvs

I have no blinders. I don't believe there was a garden of Eden. I think we were animals that have evolved and we are hopefully getting better. What about your God of the bible ordering the killings of all the people of certain tribes.

When the Lord thy God shall drive them before thee, thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, or show mercy unto them.”

“I will heap mischief upon them. I will send mine arrows upon them; they shall be burned with hunger and devoured with burning heat and with bitter destruction.”

“I will send the tooth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.”

“The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin; the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.”

“Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow; let his children be continually vagabonds and beg; let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places; let the extortioner catch all that he hath, and let the stranger spoil his labor; let there be none to extend mercy unto him, neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.”

“And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body—the flesh of thy sons and daughters.”

“And the heaven that is over thee shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.”

“Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.”

“I will make my arrows drunk with blood.”

“I will laugh at their calamity.”

That passage above is courtesy of Deuteronomy. So please tell me again how the God of the bible is peaceful and loving? That is the God you worship. And then tell me how this book is supposed to be a moral guide again.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Gods judgement was righteous.

Deuteronomy 12:30-32 do not fall into the trap of following their customs and worshiping their gods. Do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations worship their gods? I want to follow their example.’ You must not worship the Lord your God the way the other nations worship their gods, for they perform for their gods every detestable act that the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods. “So be careful to obey all the commands I give you. You must not add anything to them or subtract anything from them.

God is doing exactly as I would expect him to do.

Leviticus 20:1-2 The Lord said to Moses, “Give the people of Israel these instructions, which apply both to native Israelites and to the foreigners living in Israel. “If any of them offer their children as a sacrifice to Molech, they must be put to death. The people of the community must stone them to death.

Perhaps you favor pedophilia and child sacrifice?

Perhaps you know nothing of what you speak?

source

a reply to: randyvs


There s a statement we agree on:

Human beings killing each other is a sickening thing.

The logical problem for christians (and other monotheists): God created those people, he lets the murdering happen. Heck he even allows it in his own name.
Plus he went so far to sent floods to murder his own creation.

And that's the problem with the book (or one of the mamy problems) it's condoning murder.

If there would be an almighty creator who would want to have a peaceful place. There would be a peaceful place. Otherwise he would not be almighty.

Logic.