It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why should any educated adult believe any of the stone age religions are anything but make believe?

page: 18
24
<< 15  16  17    19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 02:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Noncompatible

Science has nothing to do with spiritualism, nothing at all, unless it is science with bias. You can be spiritual AND operate in the scientific sphere, but the two do not mesh overly well.
Science is at its most basic the observation and decoding of "what is". No metaphysical why required.



I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.




posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Noncompatible

Science has nothing to do with spiritualism, nothing at all, unless it is science with bias. You can be spiritual AND operate in the scientific sphere, but the two do not mesh overly well.
Science is at its most basic the observation and decoding of "what is". No metaphysical why required.



I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.



You read about Quantum Interference
?

You'd enjoy it with that thought.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 04:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Annee

you know... what you are saying in this post is creepy similiar in a way what buddhist teachings are...or any teaching about non duality. Like zen, tao, advaita vedanta, etc,...

It just occured to me that for a spiritual atheist this could be maybe a fitting match. So this post is just an extra opinion for people who are like that, take from it what you want, I don't claim to have any special knowledge or powers : )

In a nutshell: No souls and no gods, but they also don't deny their existence or non existence so it also can be souls and gods : )

the point is to get out of false concepts and thoughts and realize the truth of nonduality. Whatever that is, we must find out not with reading or talking, but with silence, insight and meditation.

It is realized by few steps:
- studying the absolute nature of reality
- have good morals and pure heart or we need to purify them
- total detachment of desires and concepts
- most important - meditation!

And also another interesting tidbit. In all modern religious scriptures are hints of non duality, but it is overlooked due to ignorance and lack of insight in general reader.
But most importantly; esoteric or occult knowledge from more or less all main and old religions is describing more or less the same ultimate reality but using different techniques to get there.

This stands true in the East or in the West. is that unusual or what? are religions just a front for the real hidden teachings which are hard to understand and require a lot of practice and effort. Have anyone considered that?

in the west for instance we have:
- christianity: gnosticism, the Essenes
- islam: sufism
- alchemy!! -> source of all modern science was a front for hidden occult and esoteric knowledge.

in the east:
- well more or less all "religions" are connected and their description ultimate reality is naturally very similar. Like in Zen, buddhism, tao, bon
- for me their true and often hidden tantric (esoteric) teachings are a guide map for the mind and body with detailed techniques on how to advance spiritually on your own with your own experience. Much like we can find in the west, but with maybe more depth to it...they are very old religions after all. Older than christianity for instance, dealing with meditation and experiences and not beliefs.

what do they all have in common when it comes to esoteric:
- blind beliefs, all concepts are false and should ALL be dropped ASAP.
- renunciation worldly pleasures and materials
- faith is required -> it depends on the teachings but mainly learn to have complete faith in yourself or if not that, than in the guru
- study a lot on the absolute nature of reality
- combine study and practice everyday meditation and experience everything for yourself

But only a few are really interested in finding out on their own, because it requires a lot of what people in general love today to throw away completely due to wrong concepts and style of living. Real renunciation or detachment is impossible concept to grasp and we like to be in our own comfort zone. But a true "yogi" is a person who challenges his comfort zone all the time and go to unimaginable lengths to test their resolve even today in some parts of the world.

How to realize non duality by self practice:
- with mastering the mind
- with mastering the prana

Or you can realize non duality by perfect unconditional devotion to other beings.

these are two main paths to ultimate reality. Some like to practice both, some just one of them in meditation. It depends on what suits you and who you are. We each have to find out on our own accord.

Unconditional love and compassion is the result of all paths.

so why should any educated doubt what people throughout time and place in written esoteric or occult truths which are more or less the same but with different methods.

The main and most important point is: We should meditate and realize the truth by experiences on our own and it is the only real way in my opinion.

All else is just blind belief. scientist and people who abide in science is the group of people who are in a way closest to have them as little as possible...but on the other way the farthest due to recognizing only material aspect of our absolute nature.

Such irony, such pity in my opinion.

edit on 1460369325408April084083016 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 06:41 AM
link   
a reply to: schuyler




Flake"?? You look at YOUR writing and MINE and call ME a flake?


Hey. I am just sinking Down to Your Level of intelligence. So dont complain. This is the Level of communication you seam to be on. I guess i should at least meet you half way to be polite.




You ARE deluded! You can't even write a grammatical sentence!


Yeah, you would be the one to tell... That is probably Your educated profession.

Writing English is not my native Language, but knowing being on a Public forum like this that would be to much to grasp on Your part.





nor does your response add to your credibility.


I am not asking for Your approval or for you to agree. That would be asking to much from you.

I am not the one who is offended intellectually.... you are.




It's not about that special little world you've created for yourself, nor do I even want to change what people believe.


It sure is if the topic is about enducated adults: "Why should any educated adult believe any of the stone age religions are anything but make believe" ?

Its all i have been trying to argue. But you wouldnt know that because you have not been Reading my replies. How many times do i have to mention this to you, before it sinks in? A few more maybe.....





I do find it an interesting study in self-deception. What I CAN do about it is discuss it with people who have at least some understanding of the issues involved and can contribute to these ideas in a meaningful way


Yeah, why dont you do that. I am not stopping you. But you chose to argue With me anyway.....that is odd.
Why dont you argue With People who are on Your intellectuall Level. The odds are very high that you will share the common ground you are looking for. That is logic right.
Why argue With People who dont share Your view....that is bloody meaningless....right.




Given what I have seen, that would not include yourself.


No, i dont get that impression either. But here we are.... lol.




My basic contention in this thread is that your culture determines what you believe.


To bad you dont see where you went wrong. But that is Your problem not mine. You made a educated Guess and that is what a non believer would do. You can only make a educated Guess because you dont believe. you have no knowledge of it, you dont understand the difference at all. It is what i have been stating multiple times. But you wouldnt know anything about that because you dont read replies.





edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 10:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Noncompatible

Science has nothing to do with spiritualism, nothing at all, unless it is science with bias. You can be spiritual AND operate in the scientific sphere, but the two do not mesh overly well.
Science is at its most basic the observation and decoding of "what is". No metaphysical why required.



I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.



You read about Quantum Interference
?

You'd enjoy it with that thought.


No. Its just a conclusion I've come to.

I have not researched religions. I've read bits and pieces of other people's ideas on the internet. I did research the "facts" of Jesus and that related to him.

Once you remove yourself from God belief (not shunning the possibility) - - a whole world opens to you. You are no longer confined.

I have had paranormal experiences (for lack of better word) since first memory. I've had premonitions that came to be. There has to be something beyond 'here'. A brain function does not give premonitions. So I consider myself a Spiritual Atheist - - not a Hard "live and die" atheist.

I expect Ancient People had paranormal type experiences. I also believe in "ancient astronauts" assisting in the evolution of man. For what purpose I have no clue.

Even today we try to guess the unknown.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 11:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: Annee
I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.



Cannot argue with you. Everything is energy. We only differ in how we arrived at the conclusion. You really should take a look at the work being conducted in the field of Quantum Mechanics.
I honestly think you will find a lot that resonates with your worldview.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 12:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: Noncompatible

originally posted by: Annee
I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.



Cannot argue with you. Everything is energy. We only differ in how we arrived at the conclusion. You really should take a look at the work being conducted in the field of Quantum Mechanics.
I honestly think you will find a lot that resonates with your worldview.


If energy always was and always is. How would that look through the eyes of Quantum Mechanics?

Quantum mechanics can only relate to the energy that exists within Our expanding universe. How can we state through Quantum mechanics that we know that everything is energy when what we observe was formed 13,799 billion years ago. There is no way for Quantum mechanics to make a prediction of what the Field was like before that time.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 12:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheChrome
Bible prophecy has been accurate and true, that is why. It predicted the rise of the Persian empire and the fall of Babylon. It predicted the fall of Persia to the Greeks, and even predicted Alexander's empire would be split into four kingdoms among his generals. It predicted Greece would fall to Rome, and that Rome would splinter into many Nations until Britain became the predominate world power along with it's eventual ally the United States.

These things are not make believe folks, it is history and the bible predicted it. So I ask, why should any educated person not believe the bible?


INDEED.

Chuck Missler calculates the odds of only 40 of the many more specific prophecies about Yeshua (Jesus) coming true . . . I think it was something like 1 in 10 to the 156th power or some such. Will have to look it up later. The calculated atoms in the universe are a lot less than that. LOL.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 12:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Noncompatible

originally posted by: Annee
I think we agree


I do use the term Spiritual Atheist, but I believe its actual science.

I believe everything is energy and created from energy. I think we exist, basically as a thought. That physical is a manifestation of thought.

Metaphysics is basically the art of using thought energy.



Cannot argue with you. Everything is energy. We only differ in how we arrived at the conclusion. You really should take a look at the work being conducted in the field of Quantum Mechanics.
I honestly think you will find a lot that resonates with your worldview.


If energy always was and always is. How would that look through the eyes of Quantum Mechanics?

Quantum mechanics can only relate to the energy that exists within Our expanding universe. How can we state through Quantum mechanics that we know that everything is energy when what we observe was formed 13,799 billion years ago. There is no way for Quantum mechanics to make a prediction of what the Field was like before that time.



Simply put. Can you truly destroy anything?
Answer no you cannot, you simply convert in from one state to another.
Incorrect assumption unless you believe something came of nothing. Is the universe we live in brand new? Or a different configuration of something prior?
I sure don't know..so let's investigate ...
Which field are you referring to?



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:06 PM
link   
a reply to: Noncompatible



Simply put. Can you truly destroy anything?


That is a complicated question. Destroyed....No. But being completely desolved by time; Yes.

Our universe and everything within it was formed within a finite timeline. It took a finite time to compress the void into a energy mass, And now it is expanding and changing. But that will only take Place for a finite timeline as well. It will not be a infinite prosess.

Some will argue against that With different arguments like. If you Slice a rock a infinite amount of times you will still have particles from the rock present. But that is a false argument. Do to the fact that the rock-particles will emitt of energy and desolve do to pressure differencial between it and the atmosphere surrounding it. And even faster when it is sliced into very very small particles of rock.
And your first Slice would have to be With a tool that is infinitely thin. When sliced a infinite amount of times you would not be able to tell if the rock was ever sliced.

Not even energy is infinite. Energy is a ripple/wavelength through a void. And over time/distance even it will strech out and dissapear in the void (ref. Red shift observations). In other Words the void will lose its wave like motioon over time/distance. Do to particles loosing their motion/vibration as well.

This would mean that the Quantum Field would be static/neutral after a finite timeline. Wouldnt you agree?



NB.
As a side note: The reason something (finite) cant be completely destroyed is because finite is not infinite and does not take up all Space there is.



edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:28 PM
link   
A counter question (coming from a very unreligious deist): why do educated people care what other people believe or do?

This is the same as gay marriage and transexual bathrooms. It is just another instance of one group of humans trying to control another group.

Let folks go to church. Let them talk about their God while sitting in the park, or walking down the street. Let them experss their faith publicly by putting stickers on their car displaying witty sayings supporting their chosen deity.

Not because you have any right to "let" them. But because you have no reason to care. At all. No more than a baker making a wedding cake.
edit on 4/11/2016 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
A counter question (coming from a very unreligious deist): why do educated people care what other people believe or do?

This is the same as gay marriage and transexual bathrooms. It is just another instance of one group of humans trying to control another group.

Let folks go to church. Let them talk about their God while sitting in the park, or walking down the street. Let them experss their faith publicly by putting stickers on their car displaying witty sayings supporting their chosen deity.

Not because you have any right to "let" them. But because you have no reason to care. At all. No more than a baker making a wedding cake.


Very well said.

Why should we judge others? If we didnt Things would probably be much different. But that to is a complicated question when it comes to crime.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:53 PM
link   
a reply to: spy66

Pfft.


What we call "crime" today is what is truly criminal. Out of the 3 million + people in prison in the US...about how many of them do you think are actually criminal in their behavior, and not just offending someones moral sensibilities?



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 03:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: spy66

Pfft.


What we call "crime" today is what is truly criminal. Out of the 3 million + people in prison in the US...about how many of them do you think are actually criminal in their behavior, and not just offending someones moral sensibilities?


I agree With you. I dont think every one of those are true criminals. They are judged based on Our judicial system of rules and laws.

If you have a good lawyer you can get away With crime. If you have a bad lawyer you can be judged With a crime you didnt commit.

It is basically a system of randomness.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 06:04 PM
link   
a reply to: TheChrome

Again. People are taking words and assigning them meaning that cannot be proven. 10 horns could have meant many things but just because people have determined it to be Rome then it must be true. No that doesn't fly.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 06:28 PM
link   
a reply to: BO XIAN

The yeshua prophecies are week. Not to mention any other preacher could have been called the messiah and then the prophecies come true. Also we know that the expected messiah was to be a military leader but that didn't happen. Again it's all about interpretation.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 09:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: TheChrome

Again. People are taking words and assigning them meaning that cannot be proven. 10 horns could have meant many things but just because people have determined it to be Rome then it must be true. No that doesn't fly.


There are overlapping prophecies so that the meanings can be ascertained. Rome is also depicted in the statue described at Daniel chapter 2. Here we have a statue with a head of gold, and the bible names the head of gold as Nebuchadnezar (Babylon)-Daniel 2:38. Babylon then fell to the Persians, the breasts of silver. The Persians fell to Greece, depicted by loins of copper. Greece fell to Rome depicted by legs of Iron, and now we have overlapping descriptions of Rome as the legs of iron have feet with ten toes, just as the beast you are arguing against has ten horns. These events are supported by the historical records.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 09:16 PM
link   
a reply to: BO XIAN

Finally found the Chuck Missler video I was referring to, again.

BEYOND COINCIDENCE--Session 1, Dr Chuck Missler



minute 5:16

Borel's Law: P< 10 to the -50 is defined as ABSURD! as in absurdly impossible to have occurred by chance. . . . if I have the direction of my conceptual articulation accurate. LOL.

= = =
At minute 23:01

Takes hemoglobin as an example of how preposterous an idea it is that chance created such a thing.

Chemical Composition: Hemoglobin

574 Amino Acids Long

[he lists each one and the numbers of each particular one in the main headings of the amino acids.]

. . .
~minute 23:36
[color=006699]EACH ONE OF THE 574 HAS to be in precisely the right order.


Otherwise, it's called 'hemoglobin opposite.' And that's deadly. All the other possibilities are . . . deadly.

.
~minute 23:43



Specificity
.
* Formula for linear arrangements,
.
N = n!/(p! x q! x r! . . . )
.
*10 to the 650 permutations possible.
(change just one of them? = Hemoglobin Opathy)
.
. . .
Inefficience of Chance
.
* A simple binary string of 347 elements
.
P[random chance] = 2 to the -347 = 2.8669 x 10 to the -104
.
.
* Hemoglobin Molecule
--574 elements from an alphabet of 20
--10 to the 650 permutations possible
--Only one of them is hemoglobin
--Borel's Law: P[random chance] < 10 to the -50 defined as absurd
.
. . .
Impossibility of Chance
* only 10 to the 18 seconds in the history of the universe [as far as we can tell--accepting even a 15 billion year figure0!]
.
* only 10 to the 66 atoms in our entire galaxy.
.
* only 10 to the 80 particles in our entire galaxy.
.
. . .
.
* Specificity ~10 to the -650 far beyond "chance." [BEYOND GALACTICALLY FARRRRRRR BEYOND]
.
* equivalent to winning the lottery . . . every day for 90 days in a row!

.
. . .
.



posted on Apr, 12 2016 @ 01:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: svetlana84
a reply to: randyvs

So you agree that god is an evil genocidal mass murderer,
but still worship him?



Negative, I believe that God gave us enough intelligence to make us extremely dangerous to ourselves and all his creation when Gods guidance is not in the equasion. With out God,
we have this hellish world that loves war and violence and slavery. It'S obvious that this is not the world God intended. And he knew we would only ruin everything. Why shouldn't he have destroyed a world totally departed from what he intended. All we're going to accomplish is the same thing. We're stupid.



posted on Apr, 12 2016 @ 01:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: Justacasualobserver
a reply to: svetlana84


I believe that is why they say "the lord helps those who help themselves".. lol



I don't know why all of a sudden it became the norm to bash religions. If person A is using religion to become a better human being and person B does the same without any spiritual guidance, what does it matter to you which path they choose?

I'm not directing that at the users I quoted, its just a general question/comment.



new topics

top topics



 
24
<< 15  16  17    19 >>

log in

join