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Faith without works and the error of grace

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posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 11:39 PM
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I personally believe that in order to be a good person, you have to act like a good person. I don't believe that one should just expect that the so called doctrine of grace to save them. It's not really scripture. Let's look at what scripture actually says about faith. Is faith enough?

James 2:14-26

Take the case, my brothers, of someone who has never done a single good act but claims that he has faith. Will that faith save him? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, " I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty", without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that? Faith is like that: if good works do not go with it, it is dead by itself.


This is important. I believe it shows the early split in the church from the church of Jerusalem and the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the infiltrator /Paul. It's apparent that early on, Paul was deceiving the Gentile (non-Jewish) followers of what they thought was the teachings of Christ. They were in fact, the teachings of Paul, who never met Jesus and simply lied in order to deceive both the real 12 Apostles and the Gentiles. But the Apostles would not tolerate such false teachings as the doctrine of grace, and this passage in James is evidence that Paul was deceiving the ancient world into accepting a more Roman acceptable version . He declares the Law dead, Jesus disagrees. He says to follow him. Jesus says don't. He says he is an Apostle. The New Testament doesn't record anyone other than Luke, Paul's sidekick, and Paul himself, as referring to him as Apostle. This includes the book of Revelation and the last words spoken by Jesus.

Paul is a lying blasphemer who would have you believe that he met Jesus after the Ascension. He did not. He was NOT accepted by the Apostles once they found out what he is teaching and it's at this point where the story seems to want to make him the hero for "rebuking" Peter the Apostle. But the story doesn't even record Peter's response to Paul and his alleged rebuke in Acts. I wonder if Luke didn't just write down whatever Paul said. Probably. Paul actually had a lot to answer for and the story seems deliberately cut off at the point where Peter would reply to Paul's spurious accusations.

Grace is a scam.




posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 11:50 PM
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Jesus and later Paul say clearly that it is not 'good works' but a changed 'spirit' that is the state of the person of faith.

The external exhibition of 'works' have no value in themselves except that they arise from a new 'creature/creation'.

Grace is the basis on which the human spirit comes to be in union with the Spirit which is this new 'creature/creation'.
edit on 28/3/16 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: Heresiarch



I personally believe that in order to be a good person, you have to act like a good person.


Act good = being good
Or being good = act good?

How good is good?
Who determins your good?
When did you become good?
If someone is better than you does that make you bad?
How do I know your good and should heed your advise, you got a list of acts that you do that qualify you as being good?



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 12:25 AM
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Matthew 23:9

"You must call no man on earth your father; since you have only one Father; and He is in heaven. Nor must you allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have only ONE TEACHER, THE CHRIST...Anyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself exalted.

I got that Jesus. Don't call any man father. None of the Apostles ever asks to be called father, Paul, on the other hand says:

" be imitators of ME, as I am of Christ."

But let's see if they really teach the same thing.
edit on 28-3-2016 by Heresiarch because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: Heresiarch
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [again: or, from above]
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(Joh 3:3-8 KJV)
edit on 28/3/16 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 12:51 AM
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1 Corinthians 4:14

I am saying all this not just to make you ashamed but to bring you to your senses. You might have thousands of guardians in Christ, but not more than one father and it was I who begot you...


Hold on. We have one father and it is Paul? Yes, Paul begat us in Christ, he claims, and he is aware that we have one father because he doesn't say he is this father, he slips it in that he "begot" the Gentiles, which is just another way of saying he is their father. If you begat something and are a man you are its father.

What a sneaky scumbag.

Jesus said call no man on earth father, for you have one Father.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:04 AM
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Paul is saying to the Gentiles that he is their father in Christ, or that he begat the Gentiles in Christ.

No Apostle would ever make such a claim, as it was forbidden to even accept the title 'teacher' never mind father, in Christ or otherwise. That is what Jesus actually taught, and this means nothing to Paul. He has no problem telling people he is their father. He goes one further and steals the title Apostle, as further insult, later claiming to be superior and that they are mere "Apostles of men." Who added nothing to him.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:14 AM
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The doctrine of the kingdom of grace is NOT a teaching of Christ. It's the teaching of a malevolent narcissist, who was frustrated with the followers of Christ and infiltrated their movement then taught false doctrines that contradict what Jesus actually taught and said. Jesus never taught about the kingdom of grace. The kingdom of grace is made up and does not exist. Paul was just desperate for a following and taught the easiest way possible to get conversion with no knowledge of or regard to what Jesus said and taught.
edit on 28-3-2016 by Heresiarch because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:27 AM
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The Qur'an has many passages that agree with what you're saying (edit: about having to do good deeds instead of just believing in them). One of my favorites is Surah 107, Al-Maa'oon (Small Kindnesses). Here's the Pickthall translation for it (and here's the link for it):


1. Hast thou observed him who belieth religion?
2. That is he who repelleth the orphan,
3. And urgeth not the feeding of the needy.
4. Ah, woe unto worshippers
5. Who are heedless of their prayer;
6. Who would be seen (at worship)
7. Yet refuse small kindnesses!


note: "Belieth" is a form of the word "belie" ("belies/belieth"), which means "to contradict or misrepresent".
edit on 28-3-2016 by enlightenedservant because: clarified 1st sentence



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:37 AM
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But the biggest lie that Paul tells is:

Galatians 5:13
"...since the whole of the Law is summed up in a single commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself..."


That is a lie. If the Law was summed up in one commandment then Jesus would not have said that the most important commandment was to love God and the SECOND love your neighbor in Matthew 22 43-40.

Paul "improves" it by completely ommitting the GREATEST commandment of love God and lies by saying that the second greatest commandment fulfills the greatest contradicting Jesus entirely.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

I agree, that is the most attractive thing to me about Islam.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: Heresiarch

Same here. It's not good enough for us to just "talk the talk". We'll be judged by our actions and inactions.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:48 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Paul's doctrine appeals to the spiritually lazy and the unrepentant sinner alike because all is covered under this false teaching. There is no need to act because "Jesus died for their sins."

It's the ultimate scam perpetrated in the name of God in history and Paul is the most successful subversive in religious history.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

With evidence like this, this is not the guy you want to just take his word for anything on. Especially the numerous times he says he is not lying. It's a constant theme of his.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 02:45 AM
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An examination of what James understood by faith and works;
James; Faith and Works



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 02:47 AM
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Here is another whopper of a lie from the creator of the doctrine of grace Galatians 2:11-14

But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. B after they came, he drew back and kept himself separate for fear of the circumcision faction. And the other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel..."

Wait. Now Paul wants us to believe that the Apostles are hypocrites? And he has the true gospel? That's not what the evidence supports. At all. In fact Paul is the hypocrite and liar, as is obvious. That's proof of a beef between him and the Apostles for anyone who would deny it.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: Heresiarch

Grace is not a scam by any means. Grace is what I call just in time engineering.

Right when you need it...

That's grace.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 03:02 AM
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originally posted by: Heresiarch
But the biggest lie that Paul tells is:

Galatians 5:13
"...since the whole of the Law is summed up in a single commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself..."


That is a lie. If the Law was summed up in one commandment then Jesus would not have said that the most important commandment was to love God and the SECOND love your neighbor in Matthew 22 43-40.

Paul "improves" it by completely ommitting the GREATEST commandment of love God and lies by saying that the second greatest commandment fulfills the greatest contradicting Jesus entirely.


PAuls quote would be second in reality. thats the same as love your neighbor in meaning.
I have something that might give you a alternate interpretation of PAul. Link follows.
Paul a chosen vessel



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 03:34 AM
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If anyone needs proof positive that Jesus and Paul were not on the same page I point you to Matthew 5: 34-37

"But I say to you, do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not swear by your head, for you can not make one hair white or black. Let your word be 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything more than that comes from the EVIL ONE."

You got that right? Ok. Galatians 1:20

"In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!"

Not only is Paul a liar, but we know he is of the EVIL ONE. Because he prefaces his lie with an oath before God. Exactly what Jesus says is evil. He could not possibly be sent by Jesus. Or God. Even if he was telling the truth, he didn't follow Jesus teachings about taking oaths. Irrefutable proof that Paul is of the evil one. From the words of Jesus.



posted on Mar, 28 2016 @ 03:37 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

I am not interested in a link. I do my own interpretations. The fact that you can look at this evidence and not care, still follow Paul makes me not take you seriously.




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