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posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 01:24 PM
I don't think we need to resort to aliens or magical forces.
On the other hand, I don't mind when someone identifies 13 key families and researches their histories and what they have done. But why get too hung up on 13 families? Even if there were just 13 key families, they intermarry and have to bring in and recruit lots of other people to help out so why be obsessed on 13? I don't and I was born on Friday the 13th (no joke) I am sure that when push comes to shove, the ruling elite would not let such a fixation stand in the way of what they thought they had to do. After all, in many ways, they are just meta-gangsters.

The ultimate authority does exist outside of government. They use governments as their tool. The Fed, as Radagast properly points out, is another example of a public institution that is the custom designed tool of certain wealthy bankers with long historic roots. At the same time, the necessity of using the machinery and structure of government and public institutions does restrict their freedom of action.

But recently they seem to have the confidence to more and more shed the illusions of democracy and public oversight and move with increasing confidence. I believe that is what has caught everyone's attention. Until a few years almost no one noticed or talked about any of this.

posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 02:25 AM
I wouldn't say democracy is a total illusion, but it is not near what it is supposed to be.

However, I do not believe the world is controlled by 13 interconnected bloodlines that rule the world, using governments as their "puppets." I'd believe more that the world is ruled by no one ultimately, but is CONTROLLED by very rich people of corporations and bankers who have great influences on the various governments.

And yeah, I know all about how the Federal Reserve System is really a privately-owned corporation and such, etc....etc....

democracy in this nation hasn't gone completely the way of the dodo though, not by far. People still have lots of freedoms, and there are lots of activist groups out there who hate the gov't. This is modern times, where you cannot run an advanced society without educated people. Educated people means you cannot fully control or brainwash the society (this caused the Soviet Union problems later on as they had to educate more and more people).

Remember, the United States military does not fall under the total control of the gov't, and consists of the people, many people very loyal to the United States, and in the event of something crazy like the U.S.'s sovereignty being turned over to the U.N. say, the people could storm Washington and overthrow the gov't there and there is nothing to really stop them, as the military cannot and I do not think would turn against its own people.

And if such a thing DID happen, it would cause a true national outrage if civilians expressing their Constitutional rights (because technically their freedom has been removed in such a situation) were gunned down my military troops, which would also cause a lot of chaos in the military itself, in the end, democracy is still there, it is just that the gov't will always be the puppet of super rich people because of lobbying. As long as lobbying exists, the gov't will always be controlled ultimately by rich folk.

posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 01:02 PM
Seems to me that this has boiled down to a debate over whether the cup is half full or half empty. That is not really a debate.
But I am suggesting that the half full cup is being drained. This amounts to a uniquely dangerous assault on freedom. Certainly, a direct attempt to turn over sovereignty to the UN (or something radical like that) would be met by incredible resistance including resistence from the truly loyal military. However, given enough preparation time and enough "reform" and purging of the ranks, things can happen, one step at a time.

Such purging has already started in the CIA under Porter Goss, and Rumsfeld's changes in the military seem designed to make a shift to mercenaries and technology. Likewise, privacy and individual rights are being directly reduced.
In the meantime, there is an assault on our minds to get enough people to buy into it as a good thing. They know that many people will never agree but that doesn't have to stop them. It certainly didn't in Germany. As long as they control the machinery of the state and own the media, they can give the appearance of popular acceptance and support. What oppostion does appear is marginalized, ridiculed, shouted down, infiltrated, bought off, etc.
All this and more adds up to a disturbing direction. Throw in a few arranged problems and crises and we can end up in a place we hardly recognize and almost powerless. So I think the time to raise the alarm bells is now.

One other thing. This does go beyong lobbying. The media and the Congress are filled with paid shills, flunkies, fixers and gatekeepers. In the case of regularatory agencies such as the FSW, it amounts to outright control. That is more than lobbying.

posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 09:20 PM
True, as they say, a true patriot defends his country from foreigners and from its own government.

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