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Americans brainwashed?

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posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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I can't seem to edit so I'll put the link that was supposed to be with my last post here - CNN Poll




posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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You know what I find funny, the european conceit that Americans are insular and brain washed when europe is as ignorant as they are claimng we are.
Most europeans seem to have this laughable notion that Americans are ignorant of the rest of the world, when in fact most europeans I have met are amazingly ignorant about america.
For example I once had a client from sweeden try to convince me that the US is the size of france and germany combined. When I tryed to explain how much larger the nation really is he thought I was ignorant of europe.
Recently was watchng euronews and on the sports program they stated that in surfing a hawaian beat an american. How ignorant is that, and this is an international news channel?

The fact is europeans have a very skewed view of ther perceived cosmopolitanism because of the dimunitive size of european countries.
They seem to believe that being informed as to whats going on in france, germany, belgium, and holland, means that they are well educated about the world not realising tht in geographic terms tht land are is the equivalent of being informed as to whats going on in the midwest.
Europeans except for those few who have visited just dont understand the sheer scale of the US, tell the average european that the distance from New york to LA is about the same as the distance from the UK to Russia and they think your nuts.
The distance from Miami to new york is roughly the same as the dstance from spain to sweden.
A londoner watching belgian news s the equivlent of a New Yorker watching the news in ohio.
So why then are we the ones perceived as ignorant?
Because our news reports how world affairs affect us?
How is the news in europe any different?
I was watching the tsunami coverage here in europe and even though more than 150,000 people died the biggest slice of coverage was given to the relativly small numbers of europeans who were also killed. Isnt a country by country list of the EU countries who lost the most people in the Tsunami the same thing we are accused of?
Sweden Lost more than any other european country and even they lost less than 5% of overall casualties and yet the losses sweden suffered are bigger news here than the trmendous losse inflicted upon Idia and Indonesia and Thailand.
The simple fact is europeans from my experience seem to be far more insular and parochial. They are very intersted in what happens in the tiny geographical region they inhabit but ask them whats going on in asia, or africa or south America and they don't have a clue.
Ask the average european about what life is like in America and what you usually get is
" Oh I feel s sorry for you people, everbody runs around armed to the teeth, no proper healthcare or pension benefits, you workers are exploted by corporations who have all the power, and half of your country s either poor or homeless. If only you would come to your senses and make your system more like our enlightened paradise you would be so much happier."
And we are the ignorant ones?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:17 AM
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When i said that i was talking about the "average joe's" i was trying not to generalize to much to the whole american population. I was stating that the normal american citizen who would watch the news, read the paper, and listen to the radio on a daily basis and then form his opinions on issue's through those media outlets. Im not saying the whole american public are brainwashed zombies.

The time i stated "arrogant american" im sorry but this is true, if you ask the majoirty of americans if they live in the best country in the world they would claim they do, if you ask the majority of america they will say they stand for a just cause. What i was trying to convey was that america seems to think there way is the only way with out thinking about other cultures.

Also when i stated that i didnt want a fantaicaly patriotic american to give me there opinion is because we have heard "that" opinion 10 times over! So just to fill the forum with already stated opinions in many other threads is just a waste of space for ATS.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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AndI'll tell you another thing, pal, if you can stop sweet-talking that roo long enough to listen....
Don't accuse me of being brainwashed, buster 'cause you can't wash what isn't there!!
Got it!!!

*Hey, if you can't laugh, especially at yourself, what's the use in waking up in the morning?*



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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Most europeans see americans as ignorants that only think about them selves.. So yes, I have to agree with the first post..

And you see evidence of it all the time. The current one that makes me most angry, is Koyoto..



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Thomas i have read many of your posts on various topics and i know you are not a simple minded american. I never claimed that you were brainwashed, but i think your patriotic attachment to your country is blinding you to open your mind to what "could" be happening to your fellow neighbours. Im sure your christian, so your surpose to care about thy neighbour.
Ohh and trust me i can laugh at myself, every time i look in the mirror. haha



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:17 AM
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You, too? Same here! I start the day out chuckling while shaving. Funny, nobody else finds my looks all that amusing. Eh, what do they know?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by wang
Thomas i have read many of your posts on various topics and i know you are not a simple minded american. I never claimed that you were brainwashed, but i think your patriotic attachment to your country is blinding you to open your mind to what "could" be happening to your fellow neighbours. Im sure your christian, so your surpose to care about thy neighbour.
Ohh and trust me i can laugh at myself, every time i look in the mirror. haha



Let those who have no problems be the first to cast the stone...

Tell you what....
You solve the problems in your own country first, then maybe, just maybe then you'll have a leg to stand on when you come talking about mine, k?






seekerof



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:29 AM
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haha i never claimed that australia doesnt have its own "problems" and i really cant fix them in a snap of a finger can i?
Yet australian society is really trying to base it self around american soceity and culture. Our two countires are probably very similar, yet we are just following what happens over in the U.S. so if you fix your "problems" then maybe our lil johnie howard would follow.
Everyone seems to have got really defensive on this topic, relax and think about everything that happens in your media and soceity befor getting so defensive.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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what about the UK? what about their problems?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:46 AM
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Let me make a quick suggestion, Wang, and if you can do this you'll be light years ahead of my country.

Have everybody snatch the TV by its electrical cord, swing it over your heads and dash it against the floor, and do not replace the wretched thing. By doing so, you'll disconnect the brainwashing and manipulation and you will also gain so many years to your life you'll think you're living two lives!
In my mind, that invention is the ruination of my country.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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I agree with you on that, television has given the people in power (questionable who) the ability to show people certain ideas and beleifs that they want the masses to hear. Independent thought has been killed off by tv, no one seems to think for themselves, they just seem to regurgitate the opinion of some news station.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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This question is just a loaded gun waiting to go off..

Let's just agree everyone is ignorant as everyone else. I have no goddamn idea what's going on in michigan or missouri right now, nor Amsterdam nor Moscow. I don't particularly care either. Why should I have to bother to be upto date with what's going on in such places? I keep upto date with the things that interest me and that's it.

I'm an avid reader of the news and I read the paper and a variety of online sources everyday and I also watch Australia, American and European news channels. Though this doesn't make me enlightened coz all humans are pretty much as ignorant as eachother, you got all sorts everywhere, it really just depends on your interests and the resources available to you.

By the way, whoever argued about knowing about the goings on by having a large country is just the same as the goings on in europe, is just dead wrong
.

thanks,



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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I think SOME Americans are brainwashed. Enough to elect that creep for another term (I voted for him the first time too!! Man what was I thinking?)

But I think the real truth is a lot of Americans are confused more than brainwashed. We live in times like no other. Things aren’t simple anymore. Major, major life events are taking place in an age where news is instant. News is power in the USA.

Everybody in the US knows everything that’s going on instantly. That’s scary to the government. They need to control that. When you live in a time when news reporting happens as fast the news itself, people start to form their own opinions. You would think that this is a GOOD thing, but it isn’t. Let me explain..

There are 300 million people in the US. ALL of us feel we have the right to anything we want (creepy huh?) but its true. We all think that our opinions and ideas are gospel and everything must be the way we want it. Its one of the pitfalls of American freedom.

Why is that an issue you ask? Because you have 300 million different opinions on the way something should be. When 300 million people see news unfold instantly before them all at the same time, lots of different ideas start to form. Feelings are triggered and thoughts are set in motion. Your feelings and thoughts are formed by the information that you are receiving. Again, you would think this is a good thing, but it really isn’t.

A government represents a very small portion of the population. The decision makers in the government are a smaller group yet. When you have a fraction of a fraction of the population making ALL of the decisions regarding an event that’s unfolding to the entire populace simultaneously, not everybody’s opinions will be represented. People will disagree and dissention could ensue.

The government feels it needs to set the tone or context of the news in order to make the masses be on the same page emotionally and intellectually. To make us feel that the decisions the government made was what we wanted. Scary huh?

They did this in the past and it was easy. You know why? They had WEEKS in some cases to set the pace and manipulate the news the way they wanted. News reels, scripted radio, etc. Heck, even the news agencies themselves back then respected the government and did what it could to represent news in a certain way.

But not anymore. Its an all out war. Get the news first, doesn’t matter what it is or who it hurts and let it fly. And its instant.

Sooo....the government gets its grubby hands on it and filters it. They chop it up, edit and delete it. Sometimes just delay it. But the bottom line is Americans don’t see all the news they should. The government plays hardball with the news agencies. They threaten, sanction, and even bully them into playing by its rules.


So Americans are confused. We see some real news, and we see lots of biased news. But we all want to see everything all the time. You know I don’t totally disagree with the government getting a little hand in the news. I think in today’s day and age you kind of need it. At least maybe a delay. But this can be a very dangerous thing if you have the wrong people making the decisions. Once news is manipulated in anyway, the people doing the manipulation must have the peoples interests in mind.

I don’t know that our current administration can say that they do....



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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You are right that no one country is better than another but still it doesnt mean that we are still being brainwashed.
No one has talked about how i said that the propaganda has become much more complex and much more influencial since WW2, in WW2 it helped both sides alot, and both sides knew that it did. When the allies took germany they would of learnt all of there was of propaganda and who knows what other stuff they would of learnt from mengele's research. History books make mengele out to be a butcher, yet i think that his experiments probably gatherd alot of information since ethics were not in his way, and im sure that the allies were dying to get their hands on this such information. So u don't think that in 50 years, that in all the american black budget projects, that none of them have been for brain washing the masses?



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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by DR funk
By the way, whoever argued about knowing about the goings on by having a large country is just the same as the goings on in europe, is just dead wrong

Well dr funk that was me. In what way do you feel I am wrong?
How is someone in england watching belgian news any different from someone in miami watching the news from boston?
In point of fact boston is farther from miami than antwerp is from london.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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GPS777 in his/her post on the bottom of the last page hit the nail on the head about corporations and if you tie in the media companies that they own the picture becomes even clearer.

Have they got a product for you! Of course they do and they will go to any length to get it in your head and in your hands no matter what country you watch TV in. The oil industry is worse than tobacco and heroin combined for the planet. What would have happened if the USA spent that 800 billion plus on finding an alternative to fossil fuels instead of the war on Iraq? Well maybe they would have put their so called enemies out of business. What could happen if the USA started taxing the oil companies like they have taxed tobacco until an alternative is found. My guess is we won't be seeing any sort of thinking like that on the news...

You have a dollar or whatever currency in your pocket it is worth more than your vote now days spend it wisely.



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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We [anthropologists] have been the first to insist on a number of things: that the world does not divide into the pious and the superstitious; that there are sculptures in jungles and paintings in deserts; that political order is possible without centralized power and principled justice without codified rules; that the norms of reason were not fixed in Greece, the evolution of morality not consummated in England. Most important, we were the first to insist that we see the lives of others through lenses of our own grinding and that they look back on ours through ones of their own.


--Clifford Geertz



posted on Jan, 13 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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What is an international arguement if we don't include everyone?, especially , if the newest participant gets dragged into the quarrel unwittingly and amidst its own degradation......Yes, I'm bringing the soviets into the mix....But before I begin, I must stress the reason for the inclusion - This Link - The Soviet Art of Brainwashing - is an example of a concise description of what it takes to brainwash not only an individual, but a nation. It is concise in that inclusive of its arguement is concessions for the inclination of a biological organism stressed from many different points. It of course, does not contain a full "recipe" for a brainwashed nation, but nonetheless(and this is the most important inference you can make), illustrates how much time and effort went into this particular research. If the russians did it in an ultimately stagnant environment(stagnant in that the environment of its citizens would provide hardships that would undermine efforts to progress in a socio-economic fashion), then other nations most certainly have. That should not even be a point of arguement for the extra-polating mind.

I recommend that you read the link, but I suggest that you keep in mind the political overtones, in this case communism. If you replace the political values with that of Capitalism, Despotism, or Anarchy for that matter, you will have the same expression. I will reproduce here a sort-of play by play of what I think are the highlights.


"Although punishment for its own sake may not be entirely without recompense, it is, nevertheless, true that the end and goal of all punishment is the indoctrination of the person being punished with an idea, whether that idea be one of restraint or obedience.

"In that any ruler has, from time beyond memory, needed the obedience of his subject in order to accomplish his ends, he has thus resorted to punishment. This is true of every tribe and state in the history of Man. Today, Russian culture has evolved more certain and definite methods of aligning and securing the loyalties of persons and populace, and of enforcing obedience upon them. This modern outgrowth of old practice is called Psychopolitics."

This is inherent in a basic understanding of the individual and its motivating factors. Think pavlov and you get a picture of a dog being conditioned by a reward system. What many people don't know, is that a flood caused by heavy rains around the lab caused days of starvation and neglect to the same animals being experimented on - Pavlov and Co. couldn't access the location during the bad weather. The result of this "punishment", albeit not intentional, resulted in the negation of all heretofor conditionings, i.e. the dog know longer salivated at the sound of a bell. The power of punishment and, more importantly, the threat of punishment cannot be understated. Thus, a reward system can be more adequetely utilized.


"Another reason for the alignment of psychopolitical activities with the mis-alignment of insanity in that insanity, itself, is a despised and disgraced state, and anything connected with it is lightly viewed. Thus, a psychopolitical operator, working in the vicinity of an insane person, can refute and disprove any accusations made against him by demonstrating that the family itself is tainted with mental imbalance. This is surprisingly effective in Capitalistic countries where insanity is so thoroughly feared that no one would dream of investigating any circumstances in its vicinity. Psychopolitical propaganda works constantly and must work constantly to increase and build up this aura of mystery surrounding insanity, and must emphasize the horribleness of insanity in order to excuse non-therapeutic actions taken against the insane. Particularly in Capitalistic countries, an insane person has no rights under law. No person who is insane may hold property. No person who is insane may testify. Thus, we have an excellent road along which we can travel toward our certain goal and destiny."

The emphasis on mental instability indicates a popular conception of normal - which can be played upon to garner trust from a population to its ruling party. The threat of insanity essentially allows individuals who have valid complaints and insights to be rendered discredited and invalid. It should be noted, that insanity is the result of a deprivation of individual need or over-stimulation. Genetic cases of pyschosis exist but are by no means the rule - the human animal could not evolve an inclination towards mental illness. Thus the fear of insanity is instilled by phamaceutical companies and self-help medias that direct your attention to an undesirable mood or attitude, defines it as bad and offers the solution when the reality is the occurence of a healthy fluctuating behaviour - Noone can be on cloud nine all the time.


"If we could effectively kill the national pride and patriotism of just one generation, we will have won that country. Therefore, there must be continual propaganda abroad to undermine the loyalty of the citizens in general and the teen-ager in particular."


This illustrates an understanding on a clinical and applicable level the impressions of youth - very important. The opinions made in late adolescence usually lasts the lifetime as belief structures are important in the psychological make-up. The quote is directed towards a teenage manipulation via militaristic involvment, but it should be stated that our present day popular culture can accomplish a lasting influence on the youth by means of percieved social pressure, suggestion and presence of biological desire and the absence of any substanial information, i.e. irrelevant info such as the the love-life of a particular celebrity.


"Thus the subject of loyalties and their re-alignment is in fact the subject of non-armed conquest of an enemy."


This quote should be very self explanatory.


"The earliest Russian psychiatrists, pioneering this science of psychiatry, understood thoroughly that hypnosis is induced by acute fear. They discovered it could also be induced by shock of an emotional nature, and also by extreme privation, as well as by blows and drugs."


Believe it or not, this quote represents the secret of the world. Hypnosis is a phenomona that biologically puts all the bodies energy into autonamy - the heart, lungs, etc. - instilling a memory that has evolved into our DNA of submission because of dire threat. Think of a trauma victim and the effects of shock. The "nurture" version of this as opposed to the "nature" version of hypnosis. The emotional shock referenced in the above quote is the strategem most condusive to the imposition of a populace. We as humans underestimate our subconscious' abilities to direct our bodies into comfortable situations.


"On the subject of obedience itself, the most optimum obedience is unthinking obedience. The command given must be obeyed without any rationalizing on the part of the subject. The command must, therefore, be implanted below the thinking process of the subject to be influenced, and must react upon him in such a way as to bring no mental alertness on his part."


Another quote that illustrates how those in the know think. The above quote is an inherent truth and many ways to accomplish "unthinking obedience" have undoubtedly been researched, and in my opinion, implemented.


I would like to point out that a consistent theme throughout the piece is division. Division of thought, of consensus, of population. The unyeilding point is that an authority structure must be set into place, that any dissentian is dealt with inclusively; social pressure is very
powerful and percieved social pressure is the propagation of our medias.

Now, it's not just America, it's the world.



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 01:03 AM
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because it's not to do about location, it's a lot to do with nationalities. It's like saying that I am just as well enlightened as someone in england knowing about the cultures and going ons in romania because I know what's happening in Perth.

Get what i'm saying? in europe there a lot of different nationalities and people who have been fighting eachother and seperated for centuries, each pretty much having a distinctive and fairly unique culture.

I don't think there's much difference between people in Minnesota and people in Texas do you? sure we're all different but I think Europe is far more diverse than America and Australia.

But each to his own opinion

thanks,
drfunk






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