Transgender Self-Identification and the Impact of Sexual Assault

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
This question never get answered, But when was the last time you walked into a public toilet, and witnessed someone displaying their junk, male or female? In almost 56 years, I have never seen it.

I've witnessed it on only 2 occasions I can remember. Both were at clubs I played at in the '80s, and both involved men punctuating a point of their conversation with their johnson. Crude and unnecessary but vital to them at the time, I suppose.

That being my point, showers and locker rooms, I have some reservations about, but public restrooms should no be restricted.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: SaturnFX

There's every possible variation. There is no positive point at which it's one or the other. The hardest question for a midwife to answer is, "Is it a boy or a girl?", when the only truthful answer is, "You'll have to wait and see what this individual decides". The only reason this individual has to decide is to fit in with the notion that one or the other are the only choices. Being neither one or the other is reality for some. There will never be a settling point one way or the other.

nonsense
we are a sexually dimorphic species
a male and a female
is a penis present? yes or no...if yes, male, if no, female.
now, when discussing gender and trans, that is a mental thing, not a physical thing.

if a midwife failed to see a penis, then its time for a new midwife as that one is either dead, or insane

hermaphrodites are the only very infrequent exception to the rule, then its a matter of wait to see what is the dominant functioning organ


StealthAdd:
My current viewpoint on this is far, far more progressive than the reality of the definition though

noun
1.
a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.

So understand that my view of a fully transitioned person still has their initial chromosomes (XY) and therefore technically still a man, but hell, I am fully comfortable with their license changing from a M to F
I accept there may and probably is something different about the brain of a person and..self determination..sure, why not...but until that transitioned state, then they are biologically, and socially, still just a man.

no fluid state...binary choice.

My turn.

First of all, don't confuse DSD (Disorder/Difference of Sexual Development) or in today's parlance, being intersex (formerly called hermaphrodites) with being transgender. In somewhere around 1 in 1500 to 2000 births, a specialist of sex differentation is called in to determine the sex of a child. For more information about this and the types of common DSD conditions, visit the Intersex Society of North America to learn more instead of making things up or believing in myths. Some intersex conditions do not manifest until puberty. While some intersex people may transition to living as one gender or the other, they are not considered transgender.

I kind of am having a hard time determining what the OP is driving at or trying to say? Sexual assault makes people say they're transgender?

This is a hugely complicated thing to discuss, poorly understood and it isn't usually until someone in your family or very close to you is transgender before you begin to get it. Even then it is something so foreign and inconceivable to most people as to remain a mystery.

One must separate physical sex and gender before even trying to comprehend what this is about. Everyone has a usually well defined sex i.e. a penis or a vagina and everyone has a gender identity or their own internal sense of being a boy/girl, man/woman that in nearly all cases matches the physical bits.

For most all people, these things align unconsciously, without effort or thought but for transgender people, they do not. For some, it is primarily the social aspects of gender, how they are perceived by others as men or women and how they present themselves or outwardly express their own internal sense of what gender they are. For others, this disconnect between gender and anatomy is intense enough to make them extremely distressed.

The name of the medical condition that drives people to change the body to fit the mind is called gender dysphoria and is not considered pathological any more than a person being gay is considered to be "mentally ill". The cause of gender dysphoria is unknown but all science and research points to it being biological in nature happening in the womb before birth. It isn't considered to be an intersex condition but it may well turn out to be one day.

Not all transgender people have gender dysphoria or wish to change their body and for those that do, it varies in intensity from mildly annoying to crippling, suffocating and life threatening. It has been researched and studied for decades. Much of the early scientific work was destroyed by the Nazis in WWII and then later picked up again in Sweden and Denmark. In the U.S., there was no public awareness of this at all until the sensationalized "sex change" story of Christine Jorgensen in January of 1952.

"Transgender" is an umbrella term that includes anyone who's gender expression or their internal sense of what gender they are does not align with their physical sex or their assigned sex at birth as determined by a doctor or midwife. It includes heterosexual men that cross-dress which is the PC way to say transvestites and which is often fetishistic in nature and people that don't feel themselves to be either men or women and those that fall outside the gender binary, which is more of a spectrum than either/or. It also includes those that the medical and research communities refer to as transsexual - those that physically change or feel that they were born in the wrong body.

All of us, every single one is a biological mix of male and female and our personalities a mix of masculine and feminine qualities. One is usually dominant and the biological and the psychological congruent with one another. Being transgender is simply when the ratio of one to the other falls outside the statistical norm. It is kind of a simplified way of looking at it but sex is below the waist, gender is between the ears.

There is currently a discussion going on in off-topics about transgender children with a lot of this information and we have a new transgender member adding to the thread there. Go have a read. I'm short on time and out for a while but will come back to this thread with more info. It is a lot of reading but this is a deep subject. Link to thread

I'm a pre-operative MTF transsexual. I've always been overly sensitive, even more so as a child. I'm a really thin skinned person. I don't use locker rooms or public bathrooms. I don't have the balls to use a women's bathroom most of the time. Right now im going through this hellish period where i'm plucking out my chin hairs. I usually spend an hour a day in front of the mirror or rubbing my chin. I pluck the hairs out when there is 1/30th an inch of growth. It's extremely tedious and OCD. I don't have a beard or anything, it's just peach fuzz. It takes a great deal of focus. I expect people to be discriminatory, so I hide under the radar. I know better than to pick fights or complain about anything escpecially in public life. If I could afford it, I would schedule myself a bilateral orchiectomy. Sex change operation's are faulty. There's really no similarity between a genetic woman's reproductive anatomy and a post-operative transwomans neovagina. I'm holding out for the tissue engineering field of medicine to come up with a new procedure, that would entail taking tissue samples from a matching donor of vaginal, ovarian, and uterine tissue, grow them in the laboratory possibly with a 3d printer and transplant them into the patient's body. This would come with a high chance of rejection. The new organ's may not "adhere" to the vascular tree and the circulatory system, and it would require a lifetime of anti-rejection drug's.

a reply to: Mousygretchen
Thank you! Your feedback is what I've been waiting for, and hopefully what your positions were on some of the things in the op. My only interaction prior to the article I read was conversations with my daughter, described in an earlier post. What I can tell you is as a parent, everything gets pushed aside except the unconditional love a father has for his daughter, and my desire for her happiness. I hope that you have people close to you that offer support in your path to the life you seek.

I may not understand fully the difficulties and obstacles you've faced, but hope you find peace and tranquility at the end of your path.

Speaking of myths and misunderstandings, perhaps we should actually read what authorities have to say before we reference them ...

How common is intersex? To answer this question in an uncontroversial way, you’d have to first get everyone to agree on what counts as intersex —and also to agree on what should count as strictly male or strictly female.

First sentence, first paragraph, section "How common is intersex?" Intersex Society of North America

Now let's look at a few more sentences ...

How small does a penis have to be before it counts as intersex? Do you count “sex chromosome” anomalies as intersex if there’s no apparent external sexual ambiguity? (Alice Dreger explores this question in greater depth in her book Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex.) Here’s what we do know: If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births.

Now, what does that tell us about the FREQUENCY of different or non-standard genital constructions (not quite the same as intersex, commonly accepted terminology in the United States)? The CDC states that there were 3,988,076 registered births in 2014 (Link).

Simple arithmetic tells us that given the information from the two sources: 3,988,076/1800 (mean frequency) = around 2,215 people born each year ... with non-specific genitalia.

Is that the beginning and ending of the story of intersex people though? Let's see what this source has to say:

But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.

Hmmm ... so the experts in intersex suggest the issue is a bit more complex than just "1 in 1500 births" eh?

Actually, here's the summary statement from the section on statistics:

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female: one in 100 births.

Gee, I guess that would be about 1% of the population that have bodies that differ from standard male or female, eh?

What did I say earlier?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Estimates of the Intersex population ride around 1%. (I'll provide a source if needed) Intersex means, physiologically sharing traits of both sexes.

All of which merely addresses the statement or belief that there are only two sexes and that the matter is always simple to determine.

Further, I'd be glad to see any statistic or research that proves that there is NO RELATIONSHIP between intersex people and people with differing gender identities.

Really though, I feel like the whole matter here that some find so important is best answered by another quote from the ISNA website:

And so now I say, whether it’s 1 out of 300 or 1 out of 30,000, it doesn’t really matter how big or small; what matters is that we recognize individuals as human beings deserving of recognition, support, and respect. ... People with intersex are not alone no matter how big or small the number, and that is the message that I think ISNA should send: that we don’t care about statistics, what we care about are people.

ISNA - "Do Frequency Rates Matter?"

I've gone back and reread this thread and now offer the following comments.

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
That statistic lead me to these thoughts: how many people who've been a victim of sexual harassment/violence have adopted the descriptor "Transgender/Transneuteral" as a result of these acts? How many have been offered that path by psychiatrists/psychologists during treatment post incident?

Uh, none? Being transgender is not a path "offered" by anyone. You can't make someone that isn't transgender be transgender. It is also NOT a sexual identity issue. Being transgender is a gender identity issue. Honestly I find your association or insinuation to be most absurd.

But I believe there is a percentage that adopted the label as a direct result of professionals and others influencing their thought processes while vulnerable or at the confusing age of puberty.

Being transgender or more specifically transsexual is what is considered a self-identified condition. For those where being trans is a medical issue, they are the ones that seek out treatment. Doctors don't pull this out of the air or their ass to suggest it as being a reason or excuse for something else.

It is also driving me crazy to not say this. Being transgender is not an ISM. Is being gay an ism as in gayism? Transgender is an adjective as in transgender people, transgender women, etc. People are not transgendered either unless we start using gayed as a word too. Transgender is also not a noun. GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Transgender Issues

originally posted by: SaturnFX
The term trans means transitioning
If a person, say a male, has no intention of transitioning to a female, then are they trans? If I put on a kilt, I am a man, but if I call it a dress, am I suddenly a woman?

I think the term should mean something. A man wearing a dress and lipstick but no plan on transition is just a feminine man.
am I wrong here?

Yes. Trans and cis are Latin and terms used science and chemistry. Trans means across or on the other side of. Cis means on the same side as. Definitions: Trans and cis

A man wearing a dress and lipstick is a man wearing a dress and lipstick. This person could be a married heterosexual cross-dresser or a drag queen and be perfectly happy with the body they have. It could also be someone with mild gender dysphoria that feels relief or comfort expressing their feminine side. It could just be a dude that doesn't like being restricted by expected societal gender roles. Not to further confuse your understanding of things but some people will socially transition to living to as the gender opposite to their assigned sex at birth without doing anything medically.

How people define themselves is not up to you to decide.

I think before any procedure is done, a very big push for therapy should be given..let the person see if its truly transition they are wanting or if they are just suffering some disorder / depression and wanting to escape themself. a lot of trans suicide rates..people thinking that would fix their problems, having major regrets after when they realized it wasn't the issue for them...always explore why you think a way before making a huge...huge...huge modifcation to life.

You think people just walk in off the street and get any sort of trans related surgery on demand? it doesn't work that way AT ALL. Generally, it takes three months of therapy, counseling and evaluation from multiple providers including a psychiatrist before a person can even be approved for hormones. Therapy and counseling are on-going throughout HRT. Most will wait for some degree of feminization (or masculinization) prior to making a social transition which itself can be a lengthy process. If a person is tracked to have SRS, surgeons require an absolute minimum of one full year living in the target gender or real life experience it's called all the while still being psychologically counseled and evaluated. Health providers are diligent and cautious to rule out other conditions or pathologies. Regret is actually quite rare although every single one there is will be highly sensationalized and paraded around as some sort of proof trans therapies don't work.

Transgender children and their families are evaluated and thoroughly counseled. At most, at puberty chemical blockers will be used to halt the changes from undesirable natal puberty and are fully reversible. Hormone therapy can begin a year or two later at maybe 14 or 15 and although more difficult, is still largely reversible. SRS earlier than 18 is not common although a former member here had SRS at 17. She had lived fully as a girl since she was 12. If your child isn't transgender - don't worry about it!

TRANSGENDER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN USING BATHROOMS FOREVER!! This isn't something new. In the 17 states and 255 cities that have laws to permit trans people to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity, not one single incident has been recorded. Come on ATS people, don't be played this is some kind of threat - it is not. Talk about your false flag! This whole trans bathroom thing is backlash from marriage equality. This discrimination is part of the official platform of The Republican National Committee's Anti-Trans jihad and is reprehensible.

Ugh! I work hard to advocate for and support transgender children and their families and it saddens me there is so little information and too much misinformation and too many myths out there. Yes, I am passionate about this subject and do get carried away sometimes. Sorry, not sorry. Awareness, information and understanding is what I hope to achieve by participating here. I get that it is difficult, complicated and raises strong feelings but please try to keep an open mind and show come compassion.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Further, I'd be glad to see any statistic or research that proves that there is NO RELATIONSHIP between intersex people and people with differing gender identities.

Intersex people get pretty upset when you include them under the transgender umbrella even if they transition. That's enough proof for me.

Also, I know it has been revised but the the DSM-IV's definition of GID expressly excludes the diagnosis of those with a concurrent physical intersex condition.

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
Sex change operation's are faulty. There's really no similarity between a genetic woman's reproductive anatomy and a post-operative transwomans neovagina.

No, you're not going to have babies. If you have orch, you're not going to have any babies either. Your life sounds sad and depressing as hell and I'm sorry for the misery you endure. Is there nowhere you can turn for help? Are you at least on Spiro and estrogen? If not, that can work wonders for your mood and outlook and help with the OCD.

Faulty, yes because you cannot reproduce. Appearance wise and sexual function wise, there isn't a whole heck of a difference and it usually takes a gynecologist and a speculum to know. Your futuristic vision of things is probably not going to happen in your lifetime but for all practical purposes, current procedures are quite satisfactory.

a reply to: Freija

Uh, none? Being transgender is not a path "offered" by anyone. You can't make someone that isn't transgender be transgender. It is also NOT a sexual identity issue. Being transgender is a gender identity issue. Honestly I find your association or insinuation to be most absurd.

You seem certain that not one MHP, psychologist or psychiatrist has not misdiagnosed a patient based on what they presented at the time or came to an erroneous conclusion from lack of training. In attempting to get others input and understand different points of view, I never set out to be absurd, but then again, I wasn't shouting at others from a soapbox.

Ugh! I work hard to advocate for and support transgender children and their families and it saddens me there is so little information and too much misinformation and too many myths out there. Yes, I am passionate about this subject and do get carried away sometimes.

I get that it is difficult, complicated and raises strong feelings but please try to keep an open mind and show come compassion.

I appreciate your efforts to help others, and can see your passion in your post. This issue pushes the discussion into an uncomfortable zone for many, and it is a topic many avoid. Your post infused quite a bit of information, but if you intend to educate others and stimulate them "to keep an open mind and show some compassion", don't be condescending or offer an insincere apology for get carried away. People may get defensive and close their minds to what you have to offer.

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
a reply to: Mousygretchen
Thank you! Your feedback is what I've been waiting for, and hopefully what your positions were on some of the things in the op. My only interaction prior to the article I read was conversations with my daughter, described in an earlier post. What I can tell you is as a parent, everything gets pushed aside except the unconditional love a father has for his daughter, and my desire for her happiness. I hope that you have people close to you that offer support in your path to the life you seek.

I may not understand fully the difficulties and obstacles you've faced, but hope you find peace and tranquility at the end of your path.

Why?

Why would you be waiting for that feedback?

I don't get it.

There have been many positive successful transitions.

Why be miserable and put off what's available now for something that may not even happen in your lifetime?

a reply to: Annee

The op highlighted the legislative battles over Transgender accessibility, and the links provided viewpoints from those affected by said rulings. I was hoping a member that has faced issues covered in the op would offer first hand observations and input to the discussion at hand.

I've always been overly sensitive, even more so as a child. I'm a really thin skinned person. I don't use locker rooms or public bathrooms. I don't have the balls to use a women's bathroom most of the time

The post was relevant to the thread.

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
I never set out to be absurd, but then again, I wasn't shouting at others from a soapbox.

What I found absurd if indeed not completely ludicrous was this and I had a hard time getting past it:

That statistic lead me to these thoughts: how many people who've been a victim of sexual harassment/violence have adopted the descriptor "Transgender/Transneuteral" as a result of these acts? How many have been offered that path by psychiatrists/psychologists during treatment post incident?

What in the world would make you come up with this? Hey, you've been a victim of sexual violence, are you sure you might not be transgender? Or hey, you've been a victim of sexual harassment - somebody called you a queer faggot so do you think you might want to be transgender? Again, being trans is self-identified. They are the ones seeking out doctors not to cure them but to get help with their transition. Doctors don't offer being transgender as a solution to anything except in those cases where someone was so screwed up they didn't know they were transgender and I just made that up because I don't think it happens.

I just don't get it or how you could possibly connect one with the other. Most violence against trans women comes from an intimate partner. Did you know, if you sleep or have sex with a trans woman and then find out and freak out and kill her or beat her to death, California is the only state in the country where you can't use the trans panic defense. The American Bar Association has recommended this be made law nationwide. Transgender women are often forced into risky lives doing sex work or due to marginalization or homelessness into unsavory situations or sub-cultures where violence is frequently rampant. Trans women of color are at the highest risk.

Undoubtedly a rare misdiagnosis has the potential of happening but due to the extensive evaluation from multiple providers involved in this process, it is unlikely. As noted, someone doesn't medically transition easily or overnight and it would be virtually impossible to do so with multiple screenings from multiple providers. Many transgender people, even some that transition socially do not seek any medical advice or intervention at all. The possibility of a misdiagnosis from a mental health provider is a good separate question as is the discussion if this is being over diagnosed, however, tying this into something causative or resultant of sexual harassment or violence takes the legitimacy of the question off the table for me.

Based on the percentages listed, it seems as if a small percentage committed to changing their sexual-identity have embraced the concept of transgenderism and acted on it, whereas the majority simply vocalize their stance.

I choked on this too but rather than write you off as somebody that looked something up on the Internet and came up with a theory, let me try to break this down for you as helpfully as possible. Transgender people are not some monolithic homogeneous entity where everybody does the same thing nor are some trans people more trans than others nor does hormones or surgery a transgender person make. No one is less trans if they don't meet your standards of what you think being trans is. Many transgender people, even some of those with gender dysphoria don't transition or have outward signs they are transgender but they know it in their heart they are. Look at Mousygretchen's post above for example. Identifies as a pre-operative MtF transsexual but hasn't had any surgery but she still knows who she is. This is typical of the type of person participating in an online survey as most trans people that do successfully transition, which again may or may not involve medical procedures, blend into society and disappear.

Independent research done using federal administration records, social security data and the 2010 census has identified approximately 135,367 people, 90,000 of which were alive during the 2010 census, that have changed their names and socially transitioned full time. Due to proof of sex reassignment surgery requirements for also changing gender markers in some of these databases, approximately 30,000 or 1/3 of those permanently transitioning full time have also undergone SRS. Other studies have suggested there 700,000 to 900,000 people in total that fall under the transgender umbrella.

Next up, and I already mentioned is "changing their sexual-identity". Being transgender involves gender identity. Being transsexual involves changing your physical body. Neither has a darn thing to do with sexual orientation so your mixing of terms is confusing and then when you reference "the concept of transgenderism" it makes me cringe. First because it isn't an ism nor is it a concept unless that concept is something you made up for you with certain eligibility requirements for officially obtaining true transgender status? I'm really not being rude or mocking but your understanding of things or maybe it's your unfamiliarity with the verbiage probably isn't going to win you any awards with trans people.

don't be condescending or offer an insincere apology for get carried away. People may get defensive and close their minds to what you have to offer.

Yes, you are right. I retract my insincere apology. Defensive? My information has been attacked in nearly every single thread where I've spoken in support of transgender people and issues and I've been attacked personally multiple times. I come into these threads with my guard up because inevitably they turn to crap and people say a lot of flatly ignorant or offensive things. Sometimes I feel like a Bernie or Hillary supporter venturing into a rah rah Trump thread and it is hard to not start off a bit defensive myself or with claws at the ready. Soapboxing? Yes, I'm guilty of that. I make no bones about it and sometimes I am abrasive without meaning to be and I need to remember to try the catch more flies with honey thing. Thanks for the reminder of that.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Further, I'd be glad to see any statistic or research that proves that there is NO RELATIONSHIP between intersex people and people with differing gender identities.

Intersex people get pretty upset when you include them under the transgender umbrella even if they transition. That's enough proof for me.

Also, I know it has been revised but the the DSM-IV's definition of GID expressly excludes the diagnosis of those with a concurrent physical intersex condition.

So, what I hear is 1) you want to generalize based on the small sample of intersex people that "you know" as the norm (or the standard, ironically) and that their attitude is the only one possible on the matter, not to mention that 2) even though the DSM IV was published in 1994 (20 years ago) you prefer to use that reference over the updated version for some reason? Perhaps because in 1994 any gender differences such as GID or GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER were treated as pathology? Link

So, you're saying you prefer to consider Trans* folk as diseased or disordered? No thanks.

What's your point here? No one has stated that "all intersex folk are trans" ... my reason for bringing intersex into the discussion was to provide evidence that the standard biological model of sexual dichotomy was incomplete.

Even so, your source has a different take on it than you do:

Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.

Also, in terms of the real experiences of real people:

I'm an intersexual, and I'm also transgendered. This puts me in a peculiar place with regard to community lines ... straddling the border between the transgender community (at best in its adolescence) and the intersex community (still in its infancy). I have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, I was raised as a girl, and I have now lived five years as a man. When I took on the task of Intersex Liaison for a major American transgender organization, I figured that I was being assigned to heal the split between these two communities.

The Intersection - Raven Caldera

A significant minority of people with intersex conditions identify as intersex--and some identify as transgender.

Transfaith - LGBTI? Intersex and Gender

Perhaps a little less absolutism in your outlook and insistence on your own unique understandings is in order.

Well, obviously I needed schooled here and a taste of my own medicine as it were. Admittedly, I was speaking "from something I looked up on the Internet" in an area not studied in and something I have limited personal experience with. Within the extensive body of trans related research I have investigated and in the many trans related websites and online communities I have reviewed, intersex is seldom mentioned if not entirely excluded. My original comment and link to the ISNA website was because people were conflating or confusing intersex conditions with those of being transgender which itself is so confusing and difficult to understand that throwing something else into the mix that is usually not related makes it even more so.

I appreciate your information and for pointing out my own deficiencies in knowledge in this area. I will make efforts to improve my understanding of intersex conditions and people, particularly how they fit into the transgender world. As I pointed out, intersex people that do transition genders have a lot in common and many of the same issues and problems that non-intersex transgender people have to deal with. I have had my head chewed off and been severely reamed a couple of times for saying this makes intersex people transgender and was trying to respect my experience and their unique identities and community. As you've pointed out, I need a better understanding here.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
2) even though the DSM IV was published in 1994 (20 years ago) you prefer to use that reference over the updated version for some reason? Perhaps because in 1994 any gender differences such as GID or GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER were treated as pathology? Link

So, you're saying you prefer to consider Trans* folk as diseased or disordered? No thanks.

Well, I used the DSM-IV simply as an example as I have not been able to find and download the full text from the DSM-V. I am also of the belief that completely de-pathologizing GID or Gender Dysphoria will decrease the availability of treatment and make it virtually impossible to get insurance coverage for transition related expenses. It is a double-edged sword in many respects. When homosexuality was de-pathologized in 1973 (which is from memory without looking it up) that was great because being gay doesn't require access to hormones and surgery. Being transsexual does and you know as well as I do that the change from GID to Gender Dysphoria was highly politically motivated. It's the same damn thing regardless of what some committee of probably stuffy old over educated white gatekeeping men in a glass office come up with. I just made that last bit up too so don't shoot me. Hopefully it gets my point across?

Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.

I might also add that some intersex people that decide to change genders at some point in their life do so as an intersex prerogative and abhor the correlation or association with those that identify themselves as transgender or transsexual. Obviously in my limited experience, I've never encountered the ones that multiple identify.

I'm an intersexual, and I'm also transgendered. This puts me in a peculiar place with regard to community lines ... straddling the border between the transgender community (at best in its adolescence) and the intersex community (still in its infancy). I have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, I was raised as a girl, and I have now lived five years as a man. When I took on the task of Intersex Liaison for a major American transgender organization, I figured that I was being assigned to heal the split between these two communities.

Everybody has the right to self-identify as far as I'm concerned. There are multiple divisions within the "transgender community" that absolutely don't get along and seeing as how a liaison between the IS and TG groups was needed and there was a split that needed healing, my experience with intersex separatists doesn't surprise me.

Perhaps a little less absolutism in your outlook and insistence on your own unique understandings is in order.

Indeed. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and suggesting ways I can improve my understanding and advocacy. Obviously, I've got some homework to do.

a reply to: Freija

... also, don't sell yourself short, you're very dramatic.

Trans* issues, differences in gender identities, sexual physiologies and orientations are indeed a very dynamic field and we're all still learning.

Not everyone you disagree with is against you, and vice-versa.

a reply to: Boscowashisnamo
What I took away from your OP, the main point seemed to be t-girls getting influence from external things like media or people on social media. As early as 6 years I didn't want to wear the clothes my mom was buying for me. I wanted more flashy eccentric girl's clothes. That's just one example. As far as do I have people in my life that support me, I do. It's not great but its definitely more than nothing. I've had difficulty finding employment nobody seems to want to hire me. I'm still unemployed living on social security welfare checks.

To Freija: My life isn't miserable. It has nothing to do with my TS status. I've been in a bad way due to life circumstances.