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One myth leads to another

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posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 03:26 AM
I have some information to share that will be hard to swallow for many people active as posters on ATS who may view themselves as "awake" or even having an enlightened (Latin: Illuminatus) view of reality (whether that be a view of conspiracies, who they refer to as the elite or TPTB, or conspiracies in religions, or their view of religious beliefs and doctrines). They may even have the feeling that they are the enlightened ones (Latin: illuminati), awake to the reality of 'the system of things' (sometimes on sites like this or conspiracy documentaries referred to as "the Matrix") as opposed to those who are asleep to this. I hope though that the information below taken from an article that I will link further below will be considered and compared to your own beliefs and posts made on ATS (I will not quote the 6 myths used as examples in that article, for that you'll have to use the link to do a detailed comparison). When I look at the posts on ATS I often see a clear demonstration of 2 Timothy 4:3,4 while these lies and deceptions (or false stories/myths) are often overlooked, trivialized, misrepresented or clearly misunderstood by the way people on ATS talk about these subjects. So this is your real wake-up call (another one, cause apparently all the others haven't had much effect seeing the posts on ATS, especially in this subforum).

2 Timothy 4:3,4 (NW):

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st * = Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd * = Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”

2 Timothy 4:3,4 (NIV):

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

One Myth Leads to Another

“LOOK out,” wrote the apostle Paul to Christians living in the latter half of the first century C.E. What was he warning against? “Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.”—Colossians 2:8.

Despite Paul’s warning, from the middle of the second century C.E., some Christians began using concepts borrowed from ancient philosophers in order to explain their beliefs. Why? They wanted to be accepted by the educated people of the Roman Empire and thus make more converts.

Justin Martyr, one of the most famous of these Christians, believed that God’s Spokesman had manifested himself to Greek philosophers long before the arrival of Jesus. According to Justin and like-minded teachers, the contribution of philosophy and mythology to Christianity made this form of religion truly universal.

Justin Martyr’s form of Christianity became very successful in gaining converts. However, the adoption of one myth led to the creation of others and produced what is now commonly believed to be Christian doctrine. To expose these myths, compare what the following reference works say with what the Bible actually teaches.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal

Let me remind you again in relation to my opening sentence, 2 Timothy 4:3,4 and a phrase that is often found on conspiracy websites and now found in the top thread "they don't want you to know"; that I and the ones writing that article are trying to tell you something YOU don't want to know. I hope once people begin to realize this they will be encouraged to resist their own inclinations towards specific types of information and what they like to read or spend their time on learning, as well as more actively fight their own inclinations to resist (ignore, trivialize, disregard, twist how it relates to their own beliefs, view of reality and posts here on ATS expressing that view or those beliefs) the information being shared here.

And since I know that the video+audio format beats just audial or textual information in terms of its educational value regarding speed of learning (as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words), I'd like to add a video that also discusses some of the same myths/false stories and their origin, as well as the proposed NWO by prominent and influential politicians and religious figures (towards the end of the 3rd part, this is only part 1) demonstrating their allegiance to the same idea/philosophy of what they refer to as a "New World Order" (apologies to the moderator if I shared this video years ago):

edit on 26-3-2016 by whereislogic because: phrasing issues, details

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 04:32 AM
Sounds more like they were talking about another religion..

"2 Timothy 4:3,4 (NW):

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories."

“LOOK out,” wrote the apostle Paul to Christians living in the latter half of the first century C.E. What was he warning against? “Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.”—Colossians 2:8.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 04:50 AM
2 Tim 4:3 - pretty much sums up what HAS happened to ALL the major religions doesn't it?

People need to lose religion and seek for themselves - do most of the original religious texts not make this clear - each new prophet/enlightened one has tended to turn on the organised religion of their day as they see it for the corrupt, suppressive, hypocritical organisation it has become.

If any of the major religions of the world actually followed its major tenets of being loving, peaceful and helping the needy rather than hoarding millions in bank accounts, covering up their paedophilic teachers I may have some respect for them.

But yes the soul is not immortal - another tool of power and control the major religions use to keep people in fear.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 05:57 AM
a reply to: dollukka

Well, not exclusively. I wanted to also point to another article about some myths that would be more suited to the "Origins and Creationism" subforum, so assuming the moderator is now OK with it (don't remember the rules very well, but now this directly relates to your comment, so thanks), I'll go ahead with it now:

Evolution—Myths and Facts

If you study that subject a bit more, you may realize some of the same Greek Pagan philosophers being involved and named, allthough not in that article. You can find that information on youtube but I'm reluctant to share those links cause I don't agree with the way it is presented (some of those videos I'd like to use have propagandistic overtones or misleading information, or are just too long and boring for something that could be done much simpler). For those interested I'd suggest search terms such as:

pagan darwinism
greek theory of evolution

Note that it's not a "scientific theory" as that term is defined by those proposing what they refer to as the "theory of evolution", one of the reasons I wasn't sure whether or not to link any videos that show up if you search youtube with those terms, they don't make that clear, and getting into that does seem better suited for another subforum even though we're talking about religious Mother Nature (Gaia)-worshippers here and their modified philosophies/ideas, or myths ('Nature did it', 'Nature found a way to evolve a ...', 'It evolved...', 'Humans evolved from an apelike ancestor which was a common ancestor to chimpanzees', etc.) now being sold as "science"/knowledge, "scientific theory", "fact" or "factual/true"/certain/conclusive/definitive/definite/absolute (adjective: correct, without error). Where I'm using a / I'm using synonyms and where I'm leaving out " " I'm indicating that the people selling these myths to the general public in accordance to the way it's described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (and other verses using the phrase "falsely called knowledge/science") are avoiding using those words as synonyms for the other words and actively trying to warp people's understanding of that word as they sell their religious myths under the marketing banner of "science" in general. And again there is overlap with the same religions at the heart of spreading (or selling if we're talking about people making money of this) the other 6 myths used as examples in the article of my OP (note the Vatican or Pope's position on what he also refers to as "the theory of evolution" as if it's a scientific theory, or that of the Dalai Lama, Buddhism, or that of prominent Hindu and New Age teachers and gurus. Note that in my examples I'm staying relatively close to the historical location of Babylon geographically, even though these myths have spread across the globe, hoping you might notice something as you research this further).

The rest is here:

The Church Fathers—Advocates of Bible Truth?
The Apologists—Christian Defenders or Would-Be Philosophers
The Paradox of Tertullian
The Baptism of Clovis—1,500 Years of Catholicism in France
The Manipulation of Information

All related to 2 Timothy 4:3,4 and similar verses, 1 Timothy 6:20 ("...falsely called knowledge/science") and Colossians 2:8.

1 Timothy 6:20 (NW):

Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.”

1 Timothy 6:20 (KJB):

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Btw, synonyms for "paradox" are:

absurdity, inconsistency, mystery, error, mistake, nonsense (noun: contradiction)

Examples are:

"Nothing something" (Richard Dawkins), "Nothing isn't nothing physics" (Lawrence Krauss), "...the universe can ...create itself from nothing" (Stephen Hawking), i.e. nothing = something, or nothing ≠ nothng or mathematically expressed as: 0 ≠ 0.

Forgive me, I have to do this quote from memory...

"Within the one being...there exists 3 (divine) persons..." (not entirely sure about the "divine", James White, an evangelical Reformed Christian apologetic), i.e. within 1 being/person there are 3 persons/beings (exist/be/is, can all be used synonymously, "is" obviously being a grammatical form of "be"), semi-mathematically expressed as: within 1b = 3b (where b = one/1 being/person), or without the "within" which doesn't negate that it's still a paradox: 1b = 3b (applying algebra leads to the paradoxal statement that 1=3). Therefore James White and others who go along with this philosophy are in essence saying that 1=3 ( to sum up their carefully hidden paradox by the misusage of synonymous words and "capitalizing on the ambiguity of language" described in the article about the manipulation of information).

More information about evolutionary myths and the paradoxes/nonsense proposed by prominent and influential evolutionary philosophers such as the ones I mentioned from Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Stephen Hawking, as compared to 'real science', or synonymously phrased as 'knowledge about realities' (pardon the redundancy in that statement if you notice it regarding the meaning and definition of the word "knowledge" which can include the phrase "a familiarity with facts"), that which is true, facts vs fiction and myths (also for practice):

Real science, knowledge about realities compared to philosophies and stories
edit on 26-3-2016 by whereislogic because: spelling error, addition

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 08:17 AM
Maybe everyone would do well to read Jehovah's Witnesses and their many failed prophecies before taking anything in the OP too seriously.
edit on 3/26/2016 by Klassified because: redacted. Unnecessary

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 08:36 AM
It is believed that Paul was talking about Gnosticism. ' Gnosis, falsely so called', is a more accurate translation. But we know that the Gnostics had similar beliefs about Jesus from their writings found in Egypt, and were not advocating secret knowledge like has been the lie of the church for 1600 years.

They had different stories about Jesus and the church hated the competition. In capitalist fashion, they wiped out the competition. Everyone.

Gnosticism is no more or less believable than its cousin Catholicism. Just different, perhaps, you should find out for yourself.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 08:41 AM
a reply to: Klassified

Jehovah's witnesses are a vile sort who literally believe that only 144,000 people throughout the history of mankind will enter Heaven.

With odds like that why even become one? They have more than 144,000 adherants TODAY which is baffling and must keep them on the edge of insanity.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 08:48 AM

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: Klassified

Jehovah's witnesses are a vile sort who literally believe that only 144,000 people throughout the history of mankind will enter Heaven.

With odds like that why even become one? They have more than 144,000 adherants TODAY which is baffling and must keep them on the edge of insanity.

I was thinking those who are not of the 144,000, get to inherit the earth or something like that. The vast majority of Christians don't even take the JW's seriously, that should certainly give the rest of us a clue.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 09:20 AM
a reply to: whereislogic

Justin Martyr, one of the most famous of these Christians, believed that God’s Spokesman had manifested himself to Greek philosophers long before the arrival of Jesus.

Do have a citation for this? I ask because Justin Martyr is famous for his "Diabolical Mimicry" theology.

But those who hand down the myths which the poets have made, adduce no proof to the youths who learn them; and we proceed to demonstrate that they have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which were said with regard to Christ were mere marvellous tales, like the things which were said by the poets. And these things were said both among the Greeks and among all nations where they [the demons] heard the prophets foretelling that Christ would specially be believed in; but that in hearing what was said by the prophets they did not accurately understand it, but imitated what was said of our Christ, like men who are in error, we will make plain.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 09:59 AM
a reply to: Klassified

I will gladly be of the one's who inherit the earth if it means I never have to talk to another JW. Even if it means I have to be meek and not publicly ridicule another one who approaches me ever again.

edit on 26-3-2016 by Heresiarch because: don't even know how to spell 'meek'

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 11:27 AM
a reply to: whereislogic

After devoting myself to religion from my upbringing, I was raised reading the full bible, not having much of a choice to believe or not. It took many years for me to start with the Dead Sea Scrolls. This was just the beginning of the massive realization that the bible is 100% surely, Not to be believed. In fact, it angers me, now that my research has progressed that I have access to some of the Aramaic scriptures as they were written by the Essene Nazarene Assembly of the Law, Council of the Community, who were the brothers of the Messiah, to see that for example Luke would change almost everything spoken by the Savior to be the exact opposite of what He really said. It is surely a conspiracy by the Gentiles/Sadducees/Herodians, to remove the historical authority of the Christ.

To start, the name Jesus is an absolute mockery and blasphemy to the historical Nazarene, but listen closely to this introduction to the Epistle of the Apostles:

What Jesus Christ revealed to his 1 disciples as a letter, and how Jesus Christ revealed the letter of the council of the apostles, the disciples of Jesus Christ, to the Catholics; which was written because of the false apostles Simon and Cerinthus, that no one should follow them—for in them is deceit with which they kill people—that you may be established and not waver, not be shaken, and not turn away from the word of the Gospel that you have heard. As we have heard (it), kept (it), and have written (it) for the whole world, so we entrust (it) to you, our sons and daughters, in joy and in the name of God the Father, the ruler of the world, and in Jesus Christ. May grace increase upon you.

It was well known to the apostles in their day that Paul was writing conspicuous and falsified letters in order to become famous, literally stealing the evolution of the Nazarenes, this is documented by Clement of Rome, a disciple of Peter the apostle. It can be deciphered through rigorous research that indeed the name Simon was used for a fictional mock character Simon Magus who was mocking Simon Peter in the place of Paul. In the epistle above, the information is telling us, do not listen to Paul! We don't have a choice because our religion was founded by Paul, Josephus (a bitter rival to the Nazarene lineage) and the clown and total hypocrite - Luke.

Now lets examine some of the information from the Coptic Apocalypse of Peter.

the Savior said, “I have told you that these (people) are blind and deaf.

Ladies and gentleman, the whole foundation of the beginning of lies pervading to miracles came from this single passage. It all started from a metaphor, that these horrible immature pests, the Gentiles, wrote into history as literal and elaborated it into a miracle. But the meat of the passage is next:

And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, who will succeed you. And they will hold fast to the name of a dead man, while thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled. And they will fall into an
explicit error and into the hand of an evil, cunning man with a multifarious doctrine. And they will be ruled heretically.
For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching.

Paul was described by the Nazarenes as the cunning man, and the liar. But the passage above spells it out vividly. We, the future generations, have become greatly defiled because we have fallen victim to heresy, thinking that it is the truth.

I am very, very sorry, that this Gentile/Sadducee/Herodian faction of power stole the amazing truth from our grasp and gave us a tremendous amount of dishonesty in return. I have presented some of the rare surviving scripture that tells us the right Way and Truth rather than what we are all used to - pitiful lies based from jealousy and selfishness. And in case you were wondering - the Nag Hammadi library is a LIE-brary; You Will Not Find One Bit of valuable information from those near ancient documents (unless you realize that the truth is the opposite of what it written), they are ALL full of lies to the brim.

I will give one example from that. Let us look at one sentence within the gospel of Phillip, which so many scholars are ridiculously unaware of the amount of blasphemy it contains - just as All the Nag Hammadi library texts.

Let us sow in the world that we may reap in the summer. Because of this, it is fitting for us not to pray in the winter.

Everybody, I can assure you with utter and complete certainty, the Nazarene Savior would have NEVER EVER told you not to pray in the winter time. This is not a metaphor, it is a ridiculous outrageous blasphemy. And it is sorry that a new neo-movement of Nag Hammadi believers is sprouting, because it is like another collection of Paul's letter except much less carefully edited with much less concern for covering up the heresy.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 11:37 AM

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Gnosticism is no more or less believable than its cousin Catholicism. Just different, perhaps, you should find out for yourself.

I believe this is correct - specifically because both Gnosticism and Roman Catholicism destroyed the Nazarene scriptures, or copied over them with falsehood. But what is Catholicism? Originally it was Essene Catholicism with the head church in Jerusalem, but that didn't last long since the world power of the day, Rome, murdered all the Hebrew Nazarenes so that their dishonesty and falsehood was able to grow into what it is today.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 12:06 PM
a reply to: UFOdanger

The Essenes are only alluded to in the New Testament as 'Nazarenes' and 'doctors of the Law,' but the group itself, the one that produced Jesus, was wiped out by Catholicism. Catholicism is a pagan faith based off the Tanakh and the faiths of the past empires of Roman, Greek, Persian and Egyptian people all in one. Gnosticism was too, but suffered the same fate as the Essenes. I don't think Gnostics were violent towards the Essenes at all. But the Essenes do list ' the sons of Sheth' or Seth, who are the Gnostics, as mortal enemies. So the Essenes were definitely hostile towards the Gnostics. And the Gnostics thought of Jerusalem as a dwelling place of Archons so there could be something to that theory actually. Maybe the Catholic Roman faction just Imperialized or vanquished everyone who was fighting and just had the most might.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 12:14 PM
a reply to: UFOdanger

You think that the Essenes were so innocent, which is not supported by their doctrines like the war scroll, which is like a declaration of war...on everyone.

Maybe the Essenes were not so innocent, although you are accurate about the historical aspects of Paul and the Essenes I would re-consider the doctrine of the War Scroll.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 02:12 PM

One myth leads to another

As a statement I find this to be true, but much more applicable than one might consider.


Ignorance is not a insult, it is not a negative, it is not disrespectful. It is a condition of, lack of knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less.

From all the years of reading and research, and of even personal observations, I have learned that Ignorance can be overcome, and defeated. If, those in the know, care to share.

Now, on to mythology.

There is a religion presently today that reveals how "Ignorance" is spread, and it applies to all ventures today, not just religion. The "Cargo Cult"

What this cult reveals about humanity is that when faced with new information that is not complete, we will, fabricate the missing pieces to make the information whole. The trouble is, the fabrications will be passed down from generation to generation, as knowledge or fact. Myth.

These tribesmen saw for the first time flying machines and technology never before seen. Before this time they lived in a state of ignorant bliss, never being subjected to any type of aerial technology, and having no information concerning it. Then quite out of no where this new information is briefly thrown into their midst to serve the needs of what they viewed, as Gods. I'm quite certain the ignorance of the tribesmen was not considered by the allied forces, and no education program instituted for the ignorant populations.

Instead, after the war, these temporary airfields, depots, were left to rot and never revisited. The people were left to try and fill in the blanks, and they did. "Cult of the Cargo".

Now one must reconsider all previous history in the very same light. Are we, actually, a 2000 - 10,000 year old "Cult Of the Cargo".

I dare say, we are. In as much as we would like to consider our present data base of information to be complete, it is not. There is no doubt that those tribesmen of WWII were actually disrespected into ignorance by not doing the right thing, at the time. But, during a war, "nobody got time for dat".

So now if one views our ancient history in the same light as this cargo cult, one might start to appreciate what really went on. And, what might be presently occurring.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 02:15 PM

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: UFOdanger

You think that the Essenes were so innocent, which is not supported by their doctrines like the war scroll, which is like a declaration of war...on everyone.

Maybe the Essenes were not so innocent, although you are accurate about the historical aspects of Paul and the Essenes I would re-consider the doctrine of the War Scroll.

I would half to dig up the sources of these two things one is a famous Jewish scholar who pronounces that he is aware the DDS were taken to the caves from all parts of ancient Israel. There are many Zealot scrolls in the caves. An example is the Temple Scroll which is the largest and other main scroll publicized, it is for sure that the Essenes had nothing to do with that scroll. Paul, Josephus, and Luke have even nicknamed the apostles Zealot names to further confuse things and insult them.

They other thing is that after Paul had committed his crimes of persecuting the Nazarenes and going to the Gentiles and preaching his letters which he took from the Nazarenes, when Paul went to Jerusalem and stood in front of the apostles and the council of the community they looked down to the ground uncomfortably and weary of him, still respectful but cautious and not rebuking him, but I believe James gave a lecture. James was the leader of the first catholic church, in this case catholic is just a definitive term and not what it came out to be. Every sect, Zealot to Pharisee agreed with and respected James for that he did not judge and loved everybody, high to low. The Essenes (Nazarenes) were the peace loving ascetics who had deep eastern type beliefs and lived alone praying in the mountains with a white robe and scandals going back to the time of Elijah. The community at Qumran were called the Osseans, but they were still Essenes in general.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 03:27 PM
a reply to: UFOdanger

100% on the same page re: Paul, it is easy to see he was an upstart instigator and reject if you're paying attention. And that Jesus was a Zadokite, Theraputae, and Nazarene, all Essene orders. And that his sect was a peaceful one that was infiltrated, it's founders besmirched and Paul was made the "hero" for his anti-Semitism and "rebeking" of Peter and James.

Disgusting stuff really.

I just wonder who wrote the War Scroll and what it's doing among the peaceful Essenes doctrines.

But I believe that the Gnostics didn't have any part in the downfall of the Essenes.

But I could be wrong.

posted on Mar, 26 2016 @ 03:50 PM
a reply to: UFOdanger

LIE-brary is a harsh term. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls have extra-biblical tradition that could be called LIE's like Noah being born of a virgin.

Nag Hammadi scriptures are actually based off Zoroastrianism and Christianity and I would not deem anything in them as blasphemous. Christianity and Judaism both got the idea of a Messiah from the Persians Srayoshant.

So it's just a syncretic religion as is Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism. You just aren't a fan.

Personally, I am somewhere in the middle of Essene and Gnostic in my beliefs so I can't put down anyone's faith because of syncreticism, but the Essenes were also syncretic.

posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 12:28 AM

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: whereislogic

Do have a citation for this? I ask because Justin Martyr is famous for his "Diabolical Mimicry" theology.

Which was a response to:

Justin Martyr, one of the most famous of these Christians, believed that God’s Spokesman had manifested himself to Greek philosophers long before the arrival of Jesus.

It's somewhere in what is called "The First Apology". Wikipedia describes it as such (mind any inaccuracies) on the page for Justin Martyr:

The First Apology,...also indicates, as St Augustine did regarding the "true religion" that predated Christianity,[6] that the "seeds of Christianity" (manifestations of the Logos acting in history) actually predated Christ's incarnation. This notion allows him to claim many historical Greek philosophers (including Socrates and Plato), in whose works he was well studied, as ... Christians.

Which doesn't really emphasize the following very well from the article I pointed to earlier in my 2nd comment about the Apologists:

Justin, though claiming to reject pagan philosophy, was the first to use philosophical language and concepts to express “Christian” ideas, considering this type of philosophy “to be safe and profitable.”
From this point on, the strategy was, not to oppose philosophy, but to make supposed Christian thought a philosophy higher than that of the pagans. “On some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honour, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching,” wrote Justin. Adorned with its new philosophical finery, “Christian” thought now claimed the dignity of old age. The apologists pointed out that Christian books were far older than those of the Greeks and that the prophets of the Bible lived earlier than Greek philosophers. Certain apologists even concluded that the philosophers copied from the prophets. Plato was made out to be a disciple of Moses!

Christianity Distorted

This new strategy led to a mixture of Christianity and pagan philosophy.
Certain teachings were greatly modified. For example, in the Bible, Jesus is called “the Logos,” meaning God’s “Word,” or Spokesman. (John 1:1-3, 14-18; Revelation 19:11-13) Very early on, this teaching was distorted by Justin, who like a philosopher played on the two possible meanings of the Greek word logos: “word” and “reason.” Christians, he said, received the word in the person of Christ himself. However, logos in the sense of reason is found in every man, including pagans. Thus, he concluded, those who live in harmony with reason are Christians, even those who claimed or were thought to be atheists, like Socrates and others.

Moreover, by forcing the tie between Jesus and the logos of Greek philosophy, which was closely linked with the person of God, the apologists, including Tertullian, embarked on a course that eventually led Christianity to the Trinity dogma.

More details regarding that subject in the article about Tertullian. And on the wikipage for "The First Apology":

One of Justin’s most important themes involves his description of the logos, a philosophical concept of order of reason and knowledge. Throughout the First Apology, Justin argues that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the Logos, which leads him to the proof that any individual who has spoken with reason, even those who lived before Christ, connected with the logos in the form of Christ, and is thus, in fact, a Christian.[11]

This theme is paramount to understanding Justin’s defense of Christianity, and was a groundbreaking statement in Christian apologetic writing. The use of the term “logos” indicates that Justin likely drew upon prior philosophical teachings,[12][13]...

Note that there is no "proof" here, a better word used there would be "belief", "assumption", "philosophy/idea", "philosophical claim", "myth/false story", etc. You can even use "conclusion" when you feel safe that the reader understands that this conclusion is personally biased, dependent on Justin "capitalizating on the ambiguity of language" to reach the conclusion that he wanted to reach (see article about the manipulation of information for that phrase and more). From the information I studied regarding this subject I've concluded that his conclusion is wrong/false (adjective: incorrect).
edit on 27-3-2016 by whereislogic because: quote button not functioning properly on ATS for me, adding a poorly chosen workaround when I feel like I'm overlooking something obvious

posted on Mar, 27 2016 @ 01:17 AM
a reply to: Heresiarch

I am not so sure the Essenes amalgamated those attributes from Pythagoreanism or Zoroastrianism as the mainstream might think. They supposedly go back to Enoch before Akhenaten, long before the Sadducees, Greeks, or Pharisees. From what I learned they were the only group who did not have lies in their secret doctrines, for example, the masoretic text states that Goliath was 9 feet tall but the DSS says he was 6 feet tall. I mean that the world powers kept away truth from the general public has been going on since Moses. Even the name Yahweh is a deliberate hoax and the correct name is YahoVa. My problem with the Nag Hammadi texts is that they appear to be the Nazarene scriptures - but written over and forged, just as the original Aramaic gospel of John was, the real Q source.

Ok, I see what you mean about why a fringe author suggested the DDS say Noah had a virgin birth. Actually, the source text is open for much interpretation, I will present it here from the release of Martnez Florentino Garca in 1999. Enoch is talking about the "watchers." In this case he was referring to when the watchers that impregnated women and birthed giants. This is interesting and I have not known this, but I have seen evidence that Noah was a giant indeed. It also says that the father of Noah looked non human, that he was scared to show himself in public.

Behold, when I, Enoch … [… and] n[ot] from the sons of 4 heaven but from Lamech your son […] 5 and he does not resemble […] 6 … […] 7 and Lamech your son is afraid of his appearance … […] 8 in veritable truth that …Blank 9 Now I tell you my son, and I let you know … […] 10 Go, tell Lamech, your son … […] 11 his […] on the earth, and every deed … […] 12 his face has lifted to me and his eyes shine like [the] s[un …] 13 (of) this boy is a flame and he … […] 14-15 … […] 16 then they were confounded … […] 17 eternal they give … […] 18 using enormous violence, they will do until […] 19 … and all the paths of … […] 20 And now, I make known to you the mystery of … […] 21 your son make known this mystery … […] 22 … […] 23 Praise the Lord of all … […] 24 When Methuselah heard […] 25 and with Lamech, his son he spoke in secret […] 26 When I, Lamech … […] 27 … which he brought out of me … […] 28 Blank 29 […] book of the words of Noah […] 30 […] … […] Col. vi 1 from injustice, and in the crucible of her who was pregnant with me I burst forth for truth, and when I emerged from my mother’s interior, I was planted for truth, 2 and all my life I behaved in truth, and walked in the paths of eternal verity, and with me the hol[y …] 3 /on/ my tracks truth hastened, and to caution me against the path of falsehood which lead to darkness
-A Review (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 1988); R.C. Steiner, ‘The Heading of the Book of the Words of Noah on a Fragment of the Genesis Apocryphon (1QNoah, 1QapGen ar)

Here is a link showing the differences between the DDS Isaiah scroll and the masoretic Isaiah which we all know today. It is your normal Gentile forging, such as removing the feminine aspect of the holy spirit.

The Ossean and Nazarene sects of the Essenes differed on beliefs of marriage and virginity, however after having children a Nazarene would never have sexual relations with their wives again.

Zadokite means righteous priest, Nazarene means from the lineage of king David, the term Melchizedek is referring to the meaning of the word and not the lineage.

Do you ever notice how scholars say the DDS were written between 200 BC and 66 AD, yet they always fail to say which scrolls were written in the first century and which scrolls were written in 200 BC? If the War Scroll is not a Zealot production, it is just one of the scrolls written before the New Covenant, which came during the generation of John the Baptizer. The Essenes changed during these 300 years very much. Out of the 9 copies of the Community Rule scroll, there are various editing marks in the more recent versions, by the time of the Messiah, referencing to hating ones enemy and Concealing wisdom were changed into loving one's neighbor and Revealing wisdom.

It is really a great question you have and I do not have an answer. I just think that all this animosity towards the "sons of darkness" was nonexistent by the time of John and the Messiah.

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