Giant holes found in Siberia could be signs of a ticking climate 'time bomb'

Heads up, ATS. The alarm is sounding on the holes that are opening up in the Arctic. The Arctic is warmng at a faster pace than other parts of the Earth and this has scientists worried; specifically for the immediate area. Scientists have a theory that the holes opening up in the Arctic are happening as a result of thawing permafrost. Permafrost, frozen soil, keeps the dangerously explosive Methane Hydrates at bay but as Permafrost melts due to warming, Methane Hydrates are released. The danger is that Methane has 25 times more impact than Carbon Dioxide and is 21 times better at trapping heat in the atmosphere.

Scientific American reports that Arctic zones are warming at a breakneck pace, and summer 2014 was warmer than average by an alarming 9 degrees Fahrenheit, according to another story in Nature. As a result, scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) think that permafrost, the permanently frozen ground that covers the tundra, is starting to thaw in these warmer temperatures. So how does frozen methane blow a 100-foot-wide hole in the ground? Given low-enough temperatures and high-enough pressure, methane and water can freeze together into what's called a "methane hydrate." Permafrost keeps everything bottled up, but when it thaws, so does the hydrate. Methane is released as a gas, building up pressure — until the ground explodes. Scientists gained more evidence for this theory after an expedition to the bottom of the crater. It revealed that the air had an extraordinarily high concentration of methane.

Well, this is refreshing news! Kidding but this should come as no surprise to scientists. What I don't understand is why there is no National discussion or debate concerning the Permafrost/Methane issue. If the article is correct as stated we're in for trouble. The climate IS changing and the environment will follow suit, me thinks. Are we ready for the change(s) coming our way? What says ATS?

www.businessinsider.com...

a reply to: lostbook
This planet has been through cataclysms before, and life didn't fare so well. We aren't immune to it happening again, just because we're the latest and greatest iteration of our species. Sooner or later, we will be starting over with little more than a remnant of our former civilization. It's just a matter of whether it is sooner or later, but it IS inevitable.

a reply to: lostbook

You also have methane being released in increasing quantities from the artic sea floor.

There is an excellent thread somewhere on methane and permafrost which I'm sure somebody will link if you can't find it.

a reply to: lostbook

Jumping Jack Flash! Yikes, one of our contributors had tons of great threads about this topic but I forget his name right now.

Important subject - thank you OP

We live in such ignorant times... We have so much data all around us, yet it's ignored like the homeless on the busy city streets... I remember taking a climate course back at DePaul during my undergrad, and the information I learned that semester was pretty telling, and even more scary how rapid the change is happening with so little push back...

Just watch what all governments and central banksters do.

If, as always, they do nothing to pay for the clean-up job then that will prove that this is just more doom porn.

No point printing loads of paper money for themselves when the methane (if true) is going to light it all up soon and the elite will all burn with it.

Its creating a domino effect like no other. The more ice melts, the more methane is released from vegetation that was trapped in the ice, which could be millions or billions of years old and once thawed it decays ,releasing methane from the chemical reaction from the decay. There's so much vegetation trapped in the ice that i believe the earth cannot compensate fast enough. So it gets faster and faster, getting warmer and warmer. I feel for everyone along the coast lines and superpowers like New York city, which most of it is already sea level or below. Hence the Domino effect.

a reply to: lostbook

Good - maybe people who don't believe in climate change / global warming will admit that it is real if they can see a cause which isn't linked to the profits of energy industries. Even though carbon dioxide-based warming may have led to this, all I really want is for people to admit it's real - nevermind what the cause is - and figure out how we're going to cope. In my opionion, it's too late to stop the changes, we're well into feedback loops now, and we might as well concentrate on predicting what is actually going to happen and when, followed by what we're going to do to adapt. Funding and efforts should be focused on that, much more so than on trying to cut back on emissions at this point.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: lostbook

Jumping Jack Flash! Yikes, one of our contributors had tons of great threads about this topic but I forget his name right now.

Important subject - thank you OP

RezLooper is the one that has the methane threads if I recall correctly.

When the first reports came out about this quite some time ago i immediatly went on google Earth to have a look at that peninsula. I laughed my ass off. This is nothing new. That area is covered with these holes, and most are now filled with water. Ill bet these have been forming for hundreds of years, if not much longer. Did any of you look at the Yamal peninsula on google Earth?

originally posted by: lostbook
The climate IS changing and the environment will follow suit, me thinks. Are we ready for the change(s) coming our way? What says ATS?

Of course we're not ready--no one really is, and it's because focus is on blaming this or that and taxing this or that via carbon credits, when in reality, we should be focusing on how to adapt, not how to "fix" or "reverse" the last couple hundreds of years' worth of climate change, because it's impossible to quantify how much of that is because of man and how much is natural. Reversing natural processes would be a bad thing, regardless of how if affects localized areas.

That would be Rezlooper.

Here is his thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: visitedbythem
When the first reports came out about this quite some time ago i immediatly went on google Earth to have a look at that peninsula. I laughed my ass off. This is nothing new. That area is covered with these holes, and most are now filled with water. Ill bet these have been forming for hundreds of years, if not much longer. Did any of you look at the Yamal peninsula on google Earth?

Maybe these holes have always been around as part of the process of warming/cooling. However, there seems to be a lot of holes opening up in many places all over the world in recent years: Siberia, the Dead Sea, Florida, Michigan, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Mt Baldy, etc. The number of holes appearing in recent years is strange to say the least. This can't be normal.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
When the first reports came out about this quite some time ago i immediatly went on google Earth to have a look at that peninsula. I laughed my ass off. This is nothing new. That area is covered with these holes, and most are now filled with water. Ill bet these have been forming for hundreds of years, if not much longer. Did any of you look at the Yamal peninsula on google Earth?

Hahaha...holy hell, you are right. Here are two screen captures, one from relatively far out, the other zoomed in on the center of the larger area.

Overall area (all of the dark spots are holes filled with water):


Zoomed in:


Good catch, for sure.

a reply to: lostbook

There has been debate and discussion about this, for more than a decade. I remember seeing this raised several times in the past by numerous people, just because people either refused to pay attention or refused to heed the warnings does not mean no one gave a damn about it.

If anyone is to blame here it's the climate change deniers, the governments who refused to take action for decades, and the public who would all rather pretend it's someone else's problem while they drive their third car to work a mile away.

a reply to: lostbook

Actually, it can be normal, and most likely IS a result of normal atmospheric and geological processes.

Sure, maybe a small percentage could be an effect of man's fossil-fuel reliance, but to claim that "this can't be normal" is as alarmist as the link in the OP (and the links from that link, and the links from those links...).

Many of the areas that you discuss sit on top of area that used to have large underground water reserves that are being depleted due to damming and overpopulating of areas with limited resources. Some of those are areas that are historically known for sinkholes because of the type of bedrock upon which they are situated.

The reason that we know about all of these is because of the dramatic speed at which this news reaches the entire world now. Twenty years ago, you wouldn't have heard about a hole opening up in Siberia unless you bought National Geographic or some other scientific production that discussed it. Just because information reaches a massive audience at near immediate speed now doesn't mean that things are happening all over the world at a dramatically increased rate.

I think it's a problem of perception more than anything.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
If anyone is to blame here it's the climate change deniers, the governments who refused to take action for decades, and the public who would all rather pretend it's someone else's problem while they drive their third car to work a mile away.

Or sit on computers often powered by energy supplied by coal or by damming up rivers to blame everyone but themselves...

(and then not even realize that humans aren't necessarily to blame for much of what happens in nature)

originally posted by: visitedbythem
When the first reports came out about this quite some time ago i immediatly went on google Earth to have a look at that peninsula. I laughed my ass off. This is nothing new. That area is covered with these holes, and most are now filled with water. Ill bet these have been forming for hundreds of years, if not much longer. Did any of you look at the Yamal peninsula on google Earth?

I like how the alleged methane hydrate has a mind of its own. After billions of years it has developed the intelligence to know how to control itself to produce almost perfectly circular holes. The vertical scoring of the walls is a good trick as well and the amount of ejecta around the holes, isn't even 10% of the volume of the holes. That methane hydrate is pretty clever!

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: lostbook

Actually, it can be normal, and most likely IS a result of normal atmospheric and geological processes.

This is why I think the term "climate disruption" is a more apt characterization of the effects we are seeing world-wide. Most likely, these are normal processes that are simply occurring at a higher frequency and period; a disruption of the normal time scales these "normal atmospheric and geological processes" occur and are reinforced by a feedback system that is currently occurring. The climate has changed many times over in geological time scales; however, the difference in present times is there is an exogenous factor that is dirupting the normal time/frequency/period in which the changes would normally occur. It's time to stop placing blame and look at "climate disruption" as an impetus to wholesale change to our energy production paradigm. The MSM and others label this a climate issue - it's an energy issue. If our world leaders ever stop pandering for political expediency and reframe "climate change/global warming" as an energy issue (which is directly related to national defense [i.e. US gov't in bed with the likes of the Royal Saudis]) we may some real traction get hold and it becomes a win/win.

a reply to: visitedbythem

actually yes i did GE it and the whole peninsula is swiss cheese. This was last yr after reading Rezloopers threads on Methane releases.

Interestingly enough I fell down a different rabbit hole
www.yamalpeninsulatravel.com...

Somewhere in the information about the Nenet Peoples it was mentioned in their oral history that the ground explodes.
So....this is nothing new in that region.

The rest of the sinkholes Lostbook mentions have multiple different contributing factors. From the one in Louisiana where a mine wall collapsed/was breeched and resulted in a catastrophic subsidence event, to water mains bursting and causing sinkholes, to aquifers running dry and causing others. The causes are varied this isn't a one shoe fits all.