Harvard Neurosurgeon Confirms The Afterlife Exists

a reply to: elementalgrove

I thought they proved his story was a bunch of bunk to sell his book?

I believe in the afterlife but I'm pretty sure that his story was seriously augmented.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: elementalgrovecheers, I've been an Alan watts fan for years and his videos have provided much comfort to me. I think it's where I've got a few of my ideas on reincarnation from. I like the idea of reincarnation as experiencing everything from human form to animal/insect form. I understand that what we really are is just vibrations of energy in different forms

I

this reminds me of a funny bit from a great comedian named Bill Hicks!

originally posted by: lovebeck
a reply to: elementalgrove

I thought they proved his story was a bunch of bunk to sell his book?

I believe in the afterlife but I'm pretty sure that his story was seriously augmented.

This can be said of any book written at any time.

It can also be said that his experience is not that special, considering it is the same kind of experience many people have had when they explore altered states of consciousness.

I get the desire for people to have concrete proof of the after life, yet we can barely figure out our own unconscious minds while we are alive.

The greatest question humanity has ever faced is who are we and what exactly is consciousness. We have done a masterful job using the scientific method to understand the world around us and the universe in general, however our there is a certain level of hubris being displayed within the scientific community when it comes to spirit. Random chance is one of the most laughable explanations of the universe I have ever heard of.

They insult many cultures as being simple and naive for their explorations of consciousness and reverence of nature. We run around this planet destroying it along with ourselves in our quest for more control. Fear seems to be the one accepted reality for human beings. Love is a fairy tale for the weak minded who need something to believe in.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Like I said I have experienced something myself, and I know nothing more than anything science has presented. I desperately want to believe that I saw both my parents at the end of the brightly lit tunnel and that they both hugged me, I really, really want to believe that, but I also understand the power of the Human brain and the fact that we know almost nothing.

I see absolutely no reason why you should not celebrate your experience as being anything other than what it was. We know almost nothing so why decide that it was just a chemical reaction in your brain to comfort you. Even if you go with this since it can not be proven what does that imply about the nature of your brain. Perhaps the brain is not where our consciousness resides.

Over here at the heartmath institue. they are doing compelling research into the mystery of the heart and the potential for this to be where our consciousness truly resides. The brain is a wonderful guess as to where our consciousness is due to the fact the we look out from the eyes however it has never been scientifically proven.

Why is it that in meditation we are able to tune into the autonomous functioning of breathing and switch it to a conscious experience. Perhaps the brain is the center that keeps our physical body running with its billions of processes and our consciousness does reside in the heart. Maybe your heart generated the experience you are having difficulty believing.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
One individual's subjective experience under the most traumatic circumstances possible do not make any logical statements about the nature of reality or anything else for that matter.

Only human confirmation bias would claim otherwise.

Now, that said, also logically speaking, the tautology "we cannot know what we cannot know" applies here.

I can say that without better evidence I have no reason to believe in the Western concept of "afterlife."

That's just me though. Carry on!

What do you think about the eastern view of the after life?

This notion is something that permeates cultures across the globe. Although buddhist monks and hindu scholars are not scientists within the western understanding of it, they follow their own scientific method of exploring consciousness with a variety of techniques.

We are beginning to study the effects of the mind when these adepts use their techniques, such as mantras and meditation. studies on meditations effect on the brain The evidence is not going to be found in reading a book or simply observing the chemical processes of the mind. It can only be done through personal, subjective experience. Looking at the east and the continuation of their beliefs within their temples and practices it appears that they are on to something.

originally posted by: zandra
a reply to: elementalgrove

From www.evawaseerst.be...

Internet is drawing our attention to the same characteristics of near death experiences all over the world. They are always coming back. This can be no coincidence.
- the experiences exist for centuries;
- they are separate from any religious background or age;
- the mind seems to act apart from the body;
- there is always talk of a tunnel with a bright white light;
- the light consists of consciousness and is peaceful;
- material things there are of no interest;
Witnesses explain: 'Everyone consisted of light. We felt each other as if we were one and the same spirit.' Exactly the words of the oldest religions. And exactly the words Edgard Mitchell said when he stood on the moon.
People who have had a near death experience, don’t care about what others are saying about them. Those who previously did not believe in life after death, suddenly no longer see death as an endpoint. They are more spiritual and care less about material things. The quiet certainty they demonstrate when they carry on with their life speaks for itself. They don’t believe in scholars who ignore their experience.

Thank you Zandra!

This definitely explains my exploration of a certain substance that our brain creates. People can write it off as simple hallucinations that were cause by chemical reactions in our brain, but honestly reality as we know it can be explained in the same way. We have barely even begun to understand the play of consciousness and reality.

What I do know is that from my experiences in the altered states of consciousness is that they are as real as this world I live in. I have also observed the subtle energies that permeate nature and the complex patterns of sacred geometry that shine from everything. Our visible light spectrum is minute compared with all that is and to me, in altered states you glimpse far more.

As for the energetic beings that I felt such love from and for, I truly will enter the realm after my life with certainty and no fear!

originally posted by: Bojay
reincarnation - impossible if you think about it for a minute. Because that would mean that this would wold always have the exact same nr of people, animals and so on. So no. reincarnation is for the stuped ones. If you believe in reincarnation that means somebody is in control of reincarnation and wouldn't it be just much easier for the Creator to great new humans, animals and so on instead och recycling??? Take for example Buddhist, they sit there and meditate almost their whole life. For what purpose?? if God created you, would he not want you to live life instead of sitting and dreaming away your self?? The argument just don't hold. God is the answer and nothing but God. Just like Jesus said. ''I'am tellin you the Truth!!''

You simply the experience of what Buddhists are experience like one who has no understanding of what it is they know. What if you were to learn that through certain practices you can cultivate your raw energy that moves you, known to us as sexual energy, you could power your higher energy centers.

The idea of cultivating sexual energy into spiritual energy is found in tantra, taoism, and a myriad of cultures. There is the theory that all of the dragon/serpent symbolism found throughout so many cultures is a representation of this idea. Some call it Kundalini and it is the practice of moving energy from the base (root chakra) to the pineal gland (third eye charka) It is what the caduceus is implying.

We have an energetic body that has yet to be acknowledged by our scientific authorities. In fact it seems that there is a concerted effort to keep the ancient wisdom relegated to the realm of the simple minded barbarians! Yet when one looks to the kabbalah, gnosticism, free masonry, Rosicrucians, buddhist, taoist, hindu, mayan, aztec, native americans we find the belief in this system. To me the bible is an allegorical story telling you about the attainment of christ consciousness open to us all.

originally posted by: OpenMindedPhilosopher
a reply to: elementalgrove

I had always heard dmt was produced in the brain. I had always read that it was just speculation and hadn't really been proven. Or at least hadn't been proven that large amounts of dmt are produced at times of birth, death, and heavy sleep. I'm not fully sure though I'll look around for any real evidence of this. Even if something like dmt was produced in our brains at time of death, how should that prove one way or another if there is an afterlife? The only reason I ask this is the strange coincidence that many people share similar experiences when under the influence of dmt, many people report interacting or communicating with some intelligent life form. It's very interesting I wish I knew where to find some good studies on the topic.

I believe that you are correct, it has never technically been proven to be created in the pineal gland. To me what gives it weight its existence in the pineal gland is the Kundalini practices that move sexual energy up the spine through the chakra system and seems to coalesce in the pineal gland potentially unleashing the '___'. Given the experiences that can be achieved through Ayahuasca ceremonies and the studies done by Rick Strassman with intravenous use of the molecule, it seems that '___' is the cause of our spontaneous mystical states.

Then looking at the representation of the snake at the third eye found in Egyptian art and it seems that this has been known for a long time. Add to that the strange connection of pine cone symbolism across so many cultures and it seems that this is simply knowledge that has been forgotten.

Some great representation of pine cone symbolism

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Yea so, I'm not buying it. I'm supposed to take in the "Harvard" title and be like, OMG, it must be true!! Is that what's going on in some people's minds? Do you think educated people can't have bizarre experiences and/or hold irrational beliefs? Not too wise of an approach in life.

I get that the whole Harvard title is something that can cause your reaction. Naturally everyone is susceptible to bizarre experiences and hold irrational beliefs. Yet bizarre experience may be the cause of "irrational" beliefs. Life in and of itself is a bizarre experience, since if there is no rhyme nor reason to existence, why are we here at all. If you choose to go with the random chance view, I find this to be the most irrational explanation of our bizarre experience known as life.

NDE's, after careful weighting, are boring. It's very easy for me to understand what's going on. People fear the unknown, and what happens after death is the ultimate unknown. We have a primal instinct to survive, and not existing is something we find difficult, like the concept of infinity, to truly grasp. So we make up stories. We tell these to ourselves and each other to increase group fitness.

To make the statement that NDE's are boring simply displays your own ignorance of such an experience. Time and time again people have reported drastic changes in their lives and beliefs after such and experience. If this is boring than what is the point of any experience. You act as though we only have our primal instincts. Yes this is represented by our R complex and the fight, fight, procreate form of consciousness, yet we also have our mammalian brain and our neo-cortex to factor in.

As for your theory of two groups that is all well and good yet is far to simple a description of our human experience. We like to believe that we are the most advanced civilization and that our critical scientific method is the answer to everything. Yet when one looks around the world at our increasing atheism, we find many issues at play. Not least of which is our insane notion of "conquering" nature. We are nature, we are connected to all life on earth. Yet we see greed, aggression, disconnect and fear being the normal state of humanity.

It is a sad state of affairs, one that can be said to have been created by certain interests hell bent on controlling the population. Through religion and science they claim they understand our world as far as we can. Our true answers reside within our own consciousness. Exploration of this consciousness is the entire point of the original religions and aboriginal societies. We have a very myopic view of the world, full of hubris about our "understandings"

Death is not something to fear. Yet is is as you said the greatest unknown, well that is not necessarily true, hence the rituals of exploring consciousness and achieving something called ego-death.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Not to be "that guy," but what about this proves that NDE's aren't merely hallucinogenic in nature? People taking hallucinogenic drugs also believe their experiences are real at the time. Schizophrenic people are also very convinced that their experiences are real. Are we sure that NDE's don't just release an influx of chemicals through the brain that causes vast, vivid, and realistic hallucinations? Memory recall, and other instances stated by the Dr. Alexander, are all conceivably possible with hallucinations.

I'm not saying that there is or isn't an after-life, and more or less I'm asking questions to get some more insightful answers, but I do not personally believe that this proves an after-life in any way. Whether you're a doctor, or another highly intelligent person (Regarding the mention of the MENSA caliber person from IRC in a previous post), it does not mean you're insensitive to the psychological weakness brought upon by traumatic events such as near death experiences.

If anyone can provide me more information regarding this subject or refute any of what I posted; I would be much appreciative as I am not very familiar with the subject.

a reply to: lovebeck

It depends how one interprets it.

Most of us already have a preconceived notion of what a NDE entails, so if it happens to you, you interpret what you see to fit that notion.

There were experiments carried on astronauts and pilots which would mimick a near death experiences, like loss of blood to the brain.

They reported very similar things NDE patients did.

skeptoid.com...

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: pl3bscheese

If you choose to go with the random chance view, I find this to be the most irrational explanation of our bizarre experience known as life.

That makes zero sense, but go ahead.

To make the statement that NDE's are boring simply displays your own ignorance of such an experience.

No, it doesn't. People bore of what they easily grasp. That's only natural.

Time and time again people have reported drastic changes in their lives and beliefs after such and experience. If this is boring than what is the point of any experience. You act as though we only have our primal instincts. Yes this is represented by our R complex and the fight, fight, procreate form of consciousness, yet we also have our mammalian brain and our neo-cortex to factor in.

I have in no way acted as if we have only primal instincts. People have drastic changes in their lives and beliefs from all intense experiences, this is the way of trauma. This in no way proves anything except we attempt to adapt by whatever means necessary given the tools we have available.

As for your theory of two groups that is all well and good yet is far to simple a description of our human experience.

No, it's not. It's called evolution. Whatever makes a group more fit will win out in the long run.

We like to believe that we are the most advanced civilization and that our critical scientific method is the answer to everything. Yet when one looks around the world at our increasing atheism, we find many issues at play. Not least of which is our insane notion of "conquering" nature. We are nature, we are connected to all life on earth. Yet we see greed, aggression, disconnect and fear being the normal state of humanity.

Great, so now that you got that tangent off your chest, it would be nice if you could say something relevant. That was not at all relevant.

It is a sad state of affairs, one that can be said to have been created by certain interests hell bent on controlling the population. Through religion and science they claim they understand our world as far as we can. Our true answers reside within our own consciousness. Exploration of this consciousness is the entire point of the original religions and aboriginal societies. We have a very myopic view of the world, full of hubris about our "understandings"

I take you were looking in a mirror while saying this.

Death is not something to fear. Yet is is as you said the greatest unknown, well that is not necessarily true, hence the rituals of exploring consciousness and achieving something called ego-death.

Yes yes, "ego death"... great, but still, you fear it the same as everyone else. Without the instinct to survive you would have no base from which to will yourself to accomplish much of anything. I get that you'd prefer to obscure this and point to whatever else suits your fancy, but the truth remains, you take breathes because deep down, unconsciously, you know you fear death and seek to survive.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
Harvard Neurosurgeon confirms the afterlife exists.

How is it that every time I see some article screaming such absurd assertions as 'proof of an afterlife', that it is, inevitably found to be CRAP, and always fades into obscurity?!!
Whether the 'researcher' is 'biased', a 'believer', a 'Xtian' website, etc... etc... always something to lose credibility!

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." - Demosthenes

Here is an interview contained within the article of Dr. Eben Alexander describing his experience. = 'Proof of Heaven'!
I guess that posting this stuff on this site is appropriate, but it's all old recycled lies and delusions of the Faithlessly 'belief-addled'!
(Perhaps coming from a site called "spirit science" is a clear giveaway that it is not exactly 'science'?! *__-

Besides, science does not "prove" anything!
Science disproves, and if it cannot, it TENTATIVELY accepts!
Which is FAR from a hysterical 'belief-addled' 'claim' of 'PROOF'!
As soon as I hear 'proof', I know that there is no real science or philosophy behind it, just 'beliefs'!

While you can have an absolutely convincing experience, like an NDE, you can never really relay it to anyone and transfer the same level of confidence that is real. In that regard, second and third hand accounts are ALWAYS unreliable information.

Perhaps that will change very soon. If this technology is used in situations like this, the corroboration of one's accounts could be proven to be real or fake, not like a conventional lie detector:

First Paper:

Neuroscientist Uses Brain Scan to See Lies Form Source: NPR

Daniel Langleben, a psychiatrist and neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania, might go down in history as the man who revolutionized lie detection.

...

His fMRI machine can show how a lie can can be positively identified in a very sophisticated type of brain scan and computer process.

....

If Langleben is all about the science of lie detection, Joel Huizenga, the president of a company called No Lie, is all about the business of doing so. His sales pitch is simple: "What we are able to do is look inside people's brains and verify that they are telling the truth."

Present day update: No Lie Inc.
Imagine what this could do to verify information that we really have no other way of authenticating! It could indeed change everything...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: elementalgrove

its interesting that in this age we need a neurosurgeon to confirm what most of us already know...

Deep inside we all know this life isn't the end of the line... We've always known it, yet many choose to deny

As we progress in our understanding it will become more clear to everyone.... and eventually we will have "physical" proof... its only a matter of time

No, it will never become clear to EVERYONE.

And may never become clear to anyone likely.

Things are a lot more complex to believe that things will ever be CLEAR.

Without uprooting the most serious problems of existence, this charade can continue endlessly, always with a promise of "almost figuring it out".

It will take a grand effort by talented individuals who reject EVERYTHING they learn to reach beyond the LIMITED.

And a great many beings, have been making sure for , well, FOREVER , to ensure that cannot and will not happen.

The connections may seem like they are close, but I have seen that almost none here, will ever have the courage to open the doors necessary to really find the truth of this matter.

And if no truth of ALL matter is found ?

Nothing can be gained, and around will go, just ever slowly decreasing in magnificence...................

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: SaturnFX

I never met anyone who "know" we exist after body death. many believe deeply.

Well this isn't in person... but you just did...

Hows it goin?

I think the word you are seeking is hope, not know
explain it..how does it make any sense. it doesn't. there is no relatable context

Nah... hope still leaves doubt

There is no need for hope when it is already a reality

Would be great, but until that time, its just a hope..a wish..a belief.

Some people however do have subjective evidence that can be quite convincing no doubt..but even they dont..!!know!!

Funny thing is you've been there... You came from there, as did i... and everyone you and i know...

Most just are not permitted to have those memories... but some retain past life experience...

This is not and cannot be true Akragon, I too have experienced what you have, but your mind and body were still part of the equation, so you cannot truly say what lies beyond, without the machine you are in now.

NOONE has or can properly say they have experienced totality without the body, and no one can know what it would appear like without the housing to return too, even if disconnected nicely for a time.

It seems that limitation exists all around, in the scope of this thinking, I was once as silly as to believe where I was , was a total disconnect, but it clearly was not..................

Ya'll happen to notice that once the skeptics took over, comments stopped receiving stars?

Take that however you may.

a reply to: ParasuvO

This is not and cannot be true Akragon, I too have experienced what you have, but your mind and body were still part of the equation, so you cannot truly say what lies beyond, without the machine you are in now.

Except i said specifically, i've experienced nothing of the afterlife in my life...

nothing...

Yet i still know it exists without a doubt...

As i've said, i KNOW i've been there, and so have all of us...

Wow.

That's amazing.

A man's brain still had 'thoughts' while he was in a coma.

There's only ONE explanation for that, and no matter what studies are done, we should never view the outcome of those studies. Nor should we view any evidence or facts that disprove the ONLY explanation, which is....

There's a magical man who lives in the sky and monitors the thoughts and feelings of every living thing in the universe.

The funny thing is, that he is now looking forward to his death, when he will meet his beautiful sister Betsy again.