It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Before his experience, he did not believe existence of a non-physical spirit. Trained in western medical school and surrounded by medical colleagues who are deeply invested in the materialism view of the universe, he thought that the idea of a soul was outlandish. Like most “skeptics”, he believed stories of the afterlife to be hallucinations or products of the human imagination.
Dr. Alexander changed his mind after he was in a coma for seven days caused by severe bacterial meningitis. During his coma he experienced a vivid journey into what he knew to be the afterlife, visiting both heavenly and not so heavenly realms.
1. A primitive brainstem program to ease terminal pain and suffering (“evolutionary argument” – possibly as a remnant of feigned-death strategies from lower mammals?). This did not explain the robust, richly interactive nature of the recollections. - See more at: www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com...
2. The distorted recall of memories from deeper parts of the limbic system (for example, the lateral amygdala) that have enough overlying brain to be relatively protected from the meningitic inflammation, which occurs mainly at the brain’s surface. This did not explain the robust, richly interactive nature of the recollections. - See more at: www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com...
3. '___' dump. '___', a naturally occurring serotonin agonist causes vivid hallucinations and a dream-like state. I am personally familiar with drug experiences related to serotonin agonist/antagonists ('___') from my teen years in the early 70s. I have had no personal experience with '___' but have seen patients under its influence. The rich ultra-reality would still require fairly intact auditory and visual neocortex as target regions in which to generate such a rich audiovisual experience as I had in a coma. Prolonged coma due to bacterial meningitis had badly damaged my neocortex, which is where all of the serotonin from the raphe nuclei in my brainstem (or '___', a serotonin agonist) would have had effects on visual/auditory experiences. But my cortex was off, and the '___' would have no place in the brain to act. - See more at: www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com...
4. A reboot phenomenon – a random dump of bizarre dis-jointed memories due to old memories in the damaged neocortex, which might occur on restarting the cortex into consciousness after a prolonged system-wide failure, as in my diffuse meningitis. Especially given the intricacies of my elaborate recollections, this seems most unlikely. - See more at: www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com...
5. Unusual memory generation through an archaic visual pathway through the midbrain, prominently used in birds but only rarely identifiable in humans. It can be demonstrated in humans who are cortically blind, due to occipital cortex. It provided no clue as to the ultra-reality I witnessed and failed to explain the auditory-visual interleaving. - See more at: www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com...
originally posted by: elementalgrove
your open mind!
I see there no reason for atheists and theists to have any kind of hostility in any way shape or form.
I have always found the ritual use of certain substances in order to experience mystical states of consciousness a form of research.
From my humble view, we need to have serious discourse about spirituality.
Holotropic Breathwork.
originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: elementalgrove
I have Dr Alexander's Proof of Heaven book, which I must admit I didn't ever read all the way through. I kinda gave up when he started sounding too religious. But I will say that when neuroscientists put forward their case for an afterlife it does add a lot of weight to the evidence even though it is still anecdotal.
I must have another try at reading it..thank you for reminding me about this.
"I must give up what I am, in order to become what I must be "
originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: elementalgrove
I have Dr Alexander's Proof of Heaven book, which I must admit I didn't ever read all the way through. I kinda gave up when he started sounding too religious. But I will say that when neuroscientists put forward their case for an afterlife it does add a lot of weight to the evidence even though it is still anecdotal.
I must have another try at reading it..thank you for reminding me about this.
"I must give up what I am, in order to become what I must be "
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: elementalgrove
its interesting that in this age we need a neurosurgeon to confirm what most of us already know...
Deep inside we all know this life isn't the end of the line... We've always known it, yet many choose to deny
eventually we will have "physical" proof... its only a matter of time
I never met anyone who "know" we exist after body death. many believe deeply.
I think the word you are seeking is hope, not know
explain it..how does it make any sense. it doesn't. there is no relatable context
Would be great, but until that time, its just a hope..a wish..a belief.
Some people however do have subjective evidence that can be quite convincing no doubt..but even they dont..!!know!!
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: SaturnFX
I never met anyone who "know" we exist after body death. many believe deeply.
Well this isn't in person... but you just did...
Hows it goin?
I think the word you are seeking is hope, not know
explain it..how does it make any sense. it doesn't. there is no relatable context
Nah... hope still leaves doubt
There is no need for hope when it is already a reality
Would be great, but until that time, its just a hope..a wish..a belief.
Some people however do have subjective evidence that can be quite convincing no doubt..but even they dont..!!know!!
Funny thing is you've been there... You came from there, as did i... and everyone you and i know...
Most just are not permitted to have those memories... but some retain past life experience...
Yeah, thats a no go. Dont get me wrong, I was a teen also, but the reality of the situation is that you're just messing up your senses / scrambling your brain and any experiences you have are purely synthetic.
if you are seeking truth, you need your wit about you, not a chemical cocktail going on in your brain.
We need better tools to collect evidence first off..once we have strong evidence..objective evidence demonstrating supernatural / extradimensional / whatever it is, then we can start discussing the why..for now, its simply not there to have a rational discussion on. Thats how religions start. people fill in random bs when there is no evidence, and then everyone gets stabby once disagreements start.
We done need more religions and cults..we need commonsense methods on making better tools to sense and measure the odd things in our reality. full spectrum cameras and the like built into smartphones is a nice start.
lay off the drugs man. this is a guy who simply is inducing hyperventilation to create oxygen deprivation in the brain
this isn't exploring the cosmos..its just killing your braincells
hitting your head with a hammer a few times will also give you equal "enlightenment".
I recommend meditation..and clean up before you do perm damage already.
originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: elementalgrove
I wrote about Alexander a few years ago - Neuroscientist Has an NDE.
For some reason, intuition or whatever, I've lost faith in his recollections even though the imagery has really struck a chord in me. That isn't to suggest a dismissive attitude to NDEs or the possibility of some forms of afterlife. The area of NDE research is a fascinating one and controversial; people should read all sides before taking the hard stances we see around here.
Pim Van Lommel's work is arguably more constructive than Alexander's because he advocates for more research instead of evangelical messages of change. I find that reading the literature raises excellent and profound questions rather than answers. Yeah, a lot of people are able to make their minds up and cry foul or insist on NDE reality. For me, these accounts enchant without ever becoming conclusive.
Like Saturn mentions, our own personal experiences add salt to the internal dialogue. I'm not alone in saying I've had experiences that lend themselves to other-worldly explanations or, at least, exist on the threshold between known and unknown - WTF moments.
le'sigh
ok fine
see, I know...absolutely know that when we die, we find out we are actually just dreaming, the true real reality is we awake and realize we are a space potato. we got plucked, and giant space demons are currently about to chop us up into chips.
I know this..totes
and I have equal proof as you have with yours
so
who is right?
you dont know man..you hope, you believe, you wish...and you might even strongly suspect
but what if whatever experience you experienced wasn't real?
I appreciate the desire to force yourself into certainty, I do..my brother died and in some intense grief, I experienced some profound ghost moments, but even with that, I cant commit to it being anything other than a unknown mixed with a hope.
so, can you be honest with yourself? can you admit you dont actually know?
What makes you soo certain?
Chances are I have had more overt experiences than you yet I dont know anything...and thats because I have to remain honest in this situation...and demand more
So..I guess if he is telling the truth to the best of his ability, and something truly did happen to him outside of just the last dance of a dying brain, it still doesn't mean its the truth..just his perception and perhaps desired view of it all.
Same with people who say they experienced hell. programming.