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Proof: Advanced Ancient Indian Civilization existed

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posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by FoxStriker
I can agree to this topic just for the fact that scientist have found old Ziggarats in India that have part of their side melted to glass, and as told by the Scientist themselves, only an atomic weapon of some kind can cause it to melt the way it did on that ziggarat.


Do you have a source for this information?

(yes, I'm picky. I'm studying anthropology and I haven't read about this one. Color me VERY skeptical, but willing to look for the information.)




posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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I have some doubts about that article.


I am not surprised there.


... and from his young age was attracted by the Vaimanika Sastra (Aeronautical Science) expounded by the great Indian sage Maharishi Bhardwaja



The only sources that mention this great sage are reprints of your article. Surely such a famous book would be well known by the Indians. So why isn't it mentioned frequently elsewhere?


It's not a famous Indian article. As I said ancient Indian society was a bizaree dichatomy. This kind of knowledge was only for the elite. Further, Indians do know about their past history and accept it as fact. It is only those trained in the western scientific doctrines that do not accept it, until now, because they been able to verify it with the same.


And you might find this page interesting:
www.mystae.com...

In fact, you might find this quote interesting:
There is one book entitled Vaimanika-sastra that was dictated in trance during this century and purports to be a transcription of an ancient work preserved in the Akashic record."
"The medium in this case was Pandit Subbaraya Sastry, a 'walking lexicon gifted with occult perception', who began to dictate the Vaimanika-sastra to Mr. Venkatachala Sarma on August 1, 1918. The complete work was taken down in 23 exercise books up to August 23, 1923. In 1923, Subbaraya Sastry also had a draftsman prepare some drawings of the vimanas according to his instructions."


I would like you to further corroborate this article, as it is from a uncredible site. The site on at the Indian ADA mentions the Vyaamnika Shastra was penned around 1900 to 1923. Otherwise, it is already shown that Shastry and Maharishi Dayanada had already made mention of it the Indian scientist Dr Talpede, who constructed an ion engine and flew the first plane in 1985 in Bombay.

I have already mentioned all the evidence for the veracity of the VS in the my previous postings:


B. The Author Maharishi Baradwaja was a famous a sage that lived in the Hindu Dvarpa and Treta Yuga. He is in the ansectory of Guru Dronacharya, who lived in the age of the Mahabharata. At least 3000 years ago. He penned the Yantra Sarwaswa(all about machines) which is a masterwork on science, of which the science of aeronautics or VS is a part. However, the Yantra Sarsawa has not been found. Baradwaja is also the common author of the Anshu Bodhini(an ancient cosmological work) and Srauta Shastra.

C.Bodhandana, a 10th century scholar wrote vriti or commentory on the VS. This suggests that at the very least the VS is 1000 years old.

In the late 19th century, a textural reference is made to the VS by Maharshi Dayananda saraswati, whom had given clarification on the direction of thrust of propulsive devices of Vimanas quoting Rig-Bhashya Bhumika. This was dated to be in 1875.

D. The VS materialised in manuscript form between 1908 to 1918 by mystic scholar Anekal Subbaraya Shastry. Anekal claimed to have recieved knowledge of the VS, among other things in a spiritual awakening . He first mentioned the VS to a scientist Dr. Talpade in India in the late 19th century.


The Akshakic records is a similar to a concept Carl Jung theorized, called the collective unconsciousness. That is all events in our space-time are recorded in a layer of space-time that we can access.


Please note that "mixing with ethereal force 10 parts of air force" certainly isn't chemistry. It doesn't say whether those parts are "parts by weight" or "parts by volume" -- a huge oversight and the difference is considerable and disastrous.

That's not chemistry. That's Silly Science.


It sounds like silly science to us, because we do not recognize what the author is referring to. Nor have we discovered the ether, though are possibly close with vacuum field physics.

Indian elements were catorgized under 5 headings: Earth, Air/wind, water, fire and ether. Now each had their own type. Suppose we had our own type system according to the 5 elements. For instance, let's look at fire and air.

What types are there to fire, which is nothing more than electromagnetic energy and what types of air/wind is there:

Types of fire:

Type 1: Radio
Type 2: Microwave
Type 3: Infrared
Type 4: Visible Light
Type 5: Ultraviolet
Type 6: X rays
Type 7: Gamma Rays

Types of Air/wind

Type 1: Vacuum
Type 2: Troposphere
Type 3: Stratosphere
Type 4: Mesosphere
Type 5: Ionosphere
Type 6: Exosphere

Now, if I wrote a description similar to the VS and said this:

By using the electric power and mixing it with the 1st type of wind in a glass tube, and striking the xy-loha, 6th type of fire will be released, by passing this to a mirror and projecting this onto a screen coated in special chemical mixture, it will reveal the insides of an organism.

Now, that is written in such a way. That nobody could make use of it, without refering to an external table that contains the required information. This is to safe guard technology from it falling in the wrong hands. We will see this to be true in the following secrets in the VS:

By attracting the thirteen kind of karaka force mentioned in ‘Karaka prakarana’ applying snow-surcharged air and projecting it on the right side of the vimana and focusing on it the suragha beam, a heavenly damsel bedecked with flowers and jewels will appear to onlookers of the vimana.

It becomes clear that to know what the 13th kind of "Karaka" force is, we need to refer to something else. It also mentions Surangha beam, which is crucial to producing a hologram of a heavenly damsel bednecked with flowers and jewels. Now, it would appear, that the Surgangha beam is already preset with this hologram, or produced shapes of light, which produce the hologram which only becomes activated when a force is passed through it.

We see various kinds of mentions of types of forces, powers and elements in the VS:

Smoke
Wind
Fire
water
speed
solar glow

If you read the thesis I presented on the VS from the ADA, it does show, that the ancient Indians understood that the atmosphere is divided into 5 layers. Perhaps, that is what types of wind refers too. In some secrets of the VS it mentions how to tap certain winds as energy. If the Vimana was flying in the Ionosphere, it could use the free electrons and plasma as a source of energy.

Now, we also hear that the technology was so advanced in that age, that weapons had their own intelligence and had a telepathic interface, weather could be controlled, humans could be cloned in the lab, a special vehicle could travel in the air, in the sea and in space. We are not at this level of technology so we are not qualified to pass judgement.

However, at least 7 new inventions have been made from the VS from very credible sources from the Indian scientific community and corroborated by the ADA(Aeronautics Defence Agency) which include the following:

1. Dr Talpede's Merucry Ion engine 1895
2. A novel spectrometer/monochromeater
3. Infrared transparent material
4. Chumbakamani, Paragrandhika-drava alloys.

The following is a report from an Indian scientist Dr. C.S.R. Prabhu:

5. Tamogarbha loha: Already produced in the laboratory, light in weight, black in color, found to be resistant to acids. Displayed high level of absorption for laser light (from red Ruby laser - as observed by Prof. Robert Anderson of San Jose State University during his visit to India in December 1991). Some chemical and other properties found to be unique-patentable new alloy. This alloy was used in 'Tamo Yantra' in the Vimana Shastra for the purposes of absorption of light escaping from a photochemical reaction which resulted in absorption of light, thereby generating 'darkness'.

6. Pancha Loha (not the Panchaloha for making idols): A copper alloy, which is highly malleable and also highly corrosion resistant to moisture and salt (NaCl) water. Already produced and characterized to possess golden yellow Color (Hema Varnam). High machinability and on microstructure analysis found to be single-phase alloy with high malleability ('mridulam') and not found listed in ASM Reference (1988).

7. Arama Tamra: A copper alloy zinc, lead and iron of light absorption. Already produced and possesses golden yellow to reddish tinge. Brittle, light and hard, on microstructure analysis found to be two-phase alloy. Very hard, Young's modulus 16.9 (described in Sanskrit text as 'Dridham') not listed in ASM Reference (1988).

An article published by the Deccan Herland in 2002 on the materials developed:


Stealth Bomber from Shastra

From the Deccan Herald, Dated Nov. 2, 2002
By Rajesh Parishwad, DH News Service BANGALORE, Nov 1:

A glass-like material based on technology found in an ancient Sanskrit text that could ultimately be used in a stealth bomber (the material cannot be detected by radar) has been developed by a research scholar of Benaras Hindu University.

Prof M A Lakshmithathachar, Director of the Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote, near Mandya, told Deccan Herald that tests conducted with the material showed radars could not detect it. "The unique material cannot be traced by radar and so a plane coated with it cannot be detected using radar," he said.

The academy had been commissioned by the Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi, to take up a one-year study, 'Non-conventional approach to Aeronautics,' on the basis of an old text, Vaimanika Shastra, authored by Bharadwaj.

Though the period to which Bharadwaj belonged to is not very clear, Prof Lakshmithathachar noted, the manuscripts might be more than 1,000 years old. The project aims at deciphering the Bharadwaj's concepts in aviation. However, Prof Lakshmithathachar was quick to add that a collaborative effort from scholars of Sanskrit, physics, mathematics and aeronautics is needed to understand Bharadwaj's shastra.

The country's interest in aviation can be traced back over 2,000 years to the mythological era and the epic Ramayana tells of a supersonic-type plane, the Pushpak Vimana, which could fly at the speed of thought. "The shastra has interesting information on vimanas (airplanes), different types of metals and alloys, a spectrometer and even flying gear," the professor said. The shastra also outlines the metallurgical method to prepare an alloy very light and strong which could withstand high pressure.

He said Prof Dongre of BHU had brought out a research paper Amshubondhini after studying Vaimanika Shastra and developed the material. "There have been sporadic efforts to develop aeronautics in the country's history. There has never been a holistic approach to it. Vaimanika Shastra throws up many interesting details that can benefit Indian aviation programme," the director added.



Prof Lakshmithathachar rubbished the tendency among certain scholars to discount such ancient Sanskrit texts and said, "Why would our scholars want to cheat future generations? Unless it was important, nothing was written in the old days. The fact that there exists manuscripts indicates the significance." The academy has also embarked on other projects including 'Indian concept of Cosmology' with Indian Space Research Organisation, 'Iron & Steel in Ancient India - A Historical Perspective' with the Steel Authority of India Limited, and 'Tools & Technology of Ancient India.'


From the above we can see the biggest companies in the world are also working on the VS, including ISRO, the Indian equivalent of NASA.

In fact, the devices mentioned in the VS, can also be corrobrated by the Vedas themselves, that describe these vehicles:

The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race includes references to the following modes of transportation:

Jalayan - a vehicle designed to operate in air and water (Rig Veda 6.58.3).

Kaara- Kaara- Kaara- a vehicle that operates on ground and in water. (Rig Veda 9.14.1).

Tritala- Tritala- Tritala- a vehicle consisting of three stories. (Rig Veda 3.14.1).

Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - a three-wheeled vehicle designed to operate in the air. (Rig Veda 4.36.1);.

Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- a gas or wind-powered chariot. (Rig Veda 5.41.6).

Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- a vehicle that operates on power. (Rig Veda 3.14.1).


As to the book, if you look around for proof of its existance (and it does exist in modern forms), you will find various dates ascribed to when it was written and how it was found and who channeled it. This is another emblem of a fraud.


Well, that is why it would be wise to refer to the original source on ADA. If you go to various sources on the web, they all would be dealing with 2nd hand information and put their own spin on it

The evidence is simply overwhelming. The only way you can argue a case for fraud is to argue that the entire Indian scientific community, government and space research organization are lying.


We all know when the various books of the Bible were written, and there's good consensus about that. We know when various Sutras were written and other documents of the Hindu faith. They're listed, discussed, and there's a lot of scholarly work on them. This one appears out of nowhere with rather wild tales associated with it and strange "proofs."


No we don't. Even to date, the Aryan invasion theory and Max Mullers theories are taught as facts in western history. That has been debunked recently and it also been proven that some of the most famous previous "scholars" were racist and had ulterior motives. Indian history is being studied again by Indian scientists historians and archeologists, and they are uncovering their real history. I don't think I have to argue for the fact that Indians hold a bit more credibility for their own history, than some foreign bodies too.

As far as I am concerned, considering the overwhelming evidence, that there was indeed a technologically advanced society in the past. To dismiss all this evidence, would be fool-hardy. Ancient Indian science and metaphysics may bring about a scientific and cultural revolution. In fact it already is. We all gain. Why fight the truth?

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 06:41 PM
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A lot of the technology described in the Indian epics and Vedas is still beyond the capacity of modern man. However, I think it can be shown that they can be realized through current theoretical science. It can be said, however, the Ancient Indian civilization, if the epics are taken as history, are considerably more advanced than even the cutting edge of modern science would allow for us.

]Weapons technology

The Divya Astras, or celestial weapons, could seek their target by a certain signature and could be materialized through a telepathic interface. They would then unleash the power of their elements.
This would suggest that the weapons were like conventional smart weapons or guided by fly-by-wire systems. No, in fact they were far more advanced than this. In fact, the celestial weapons, were intelligent, and were described as being subtly embedded with consciousness. As we will see in this passage:

"And seated on that excellent car with face turned to the east, the mighty-armed hero, purifying his body and concentrating his soul, recalled to his mind all his weapons. And all the weapons came, and addressing the royal son of Partha, said, 'We are here, O illustrious one. We are thy servants, O son of Indra.' And bowing unto them, Partha received them into his hands, and replied unto them, saying, 'Dwell ye all in my memory.'

In other words they were Artificial Intelligence. However, they could not have been classical binary computers or nanocomputers, as there are molecular limits to their processing power. This is why in the cutting edge of AI sciences, scientists are now looking towards quantum computers and it is theorized that the human brain itself is a quantum computer. It therefore becomes a real possibility that if quantum computers can emulate consciousness, then it would be possible to make inanimate matter conscious and create intelligent and role-specific weapon systems like those described in the Mahabharata. Therefore consciousness itself is an emergent propery of aggregation of constituent particles.

In fact this was alluded by Kanada in his atomic theory that mind itself is comprised of particle. This is further verified itself in the Bhagvad Gita, where Krishna describes matter as being of both physical and non-physical form, matter and the soul, that he describes as mind, intelligence and false ego. He further elucidates that the soul or "Jeevatma" itself is comprised of particles.

I would be not surprised at all if Ancian Indian sciences had progressed to as far as developing/creating and manipulating consciousness, as Hinduism itself is largely based on philosophies on consciousness and all aspects o new-age consciousness science, energy bodies(auras) energy vorticies(chakras) and "prana meditation" have originated in India. Hence, why so many quantum physicists are attracted by Hinduism.

Another aspect to the weapons were they could be materialised by thoughts. This combines two forms of technology: Quantum teleportation and Mind-Machine interface. They are both currently theoretical science, however the principles have been demonstrated empirically on a smaller scale:

1) The Mind-Machine interface: A very primitive mind-machine interface has been developed where a computer game can be controlled by a wireless headset that interprets the thoughts of the person wearing it and moves a character in a computer game. The directions of the character are controlled by the person concentrating on directions on the screen. A slightly more advanced system is being developed by NASA which uses a computer-telepathy system that can read thoughts by scanning nerves in the thyroid.

2) Quantum teleportation: So far only a photon, or particle of energy has succesfully been teleported across a distance of 600m. However, this means it maybe possible to teleport larger stuff too.

Cloaking and invisibility technology

There are several types of chemical stealth, optical stealth and even invisibility systems described in the VS and an advanced cloaking system is described being used by Salva in the Mahabharat. Let's look at those descriptions in the VS:

Goodha : “As explained in ‘Vayutatva prakarana’, by harnessing the powers, yaasaa, prayaasa in the eighth atmospheric layer covering the earth to attract the dark content of the solar ray, and use it to hide the vimana from the enemy”

Drishya : “By collision of the electric power and wind power in the atmosphere, a glow is created, whose reflection is to be caught in the ‘vishwa kriya darpana’ or mirror at the front of the vimana, and by its manipulation to produce a maaya-vimana or camouflaged vimana”

Adrishya. : “According to ‘Shakti tantra’, by means of the Vymarathya Vikarana and other powers in the heart centre of the solar mass, attract the force of the etherial flow in the sky, and mingle it with Balaahaavikarana shakti in the aerial globe, producing thereby a white cover which will make the vimana invisible.”

Aakaashaakaara. : “According to ‘Aakaasha-tantra’, by mixing black mica solution with neem and bhoonaaga decoctions and smearing the solution on the outer body of the vimana made of mica plates and exposing to solar rays, the plane will look like the sky and becomes indistinguishable."


"Goodha" appears to be describing true optical invisibility by isolating a cetain aspect of light rays. While "Aakaashaakara" describes optical camoflage, where rather than being invisible, the craft will seem transparent and become indistinguishiable from it's background. There is no reference point for technology like Goodha, but Aakaashaakara has been demonstrated recently by Japanese scientists with the invisibility cloak. The invisibility cloak uses the retroreflective material of the cloak, made of thousands of special beads to make it seem transparent from certain viewing angles.

A more advanced version, called "adaptive camoflage" using the same principles as the cloak, is being developed by the Jet Propulsion laborotary. It's uses a optoelectrical system to project the scene from the far side of an object onto the near side of the object (the side closest to the onlooker). It uses a network of silicon electronic flat-panel display units, or plates, that are arranged in an array covering all of the craft. Behind each image sensor lies a complex network of fiber optics that transfer the image from each to a display pane on the opposite side of the craft. The outcome is near-invisibility.

This is nearly identical to what the VS has desribed, in all likiness, it is the same. The craft is covered in an array of mica plates, and when it is hit by solar rays, it causes the craft to become transparent all around. Not only is the mechanism the same, but the material with which the plates are coated in, is described as a special substance obtained from chemical reaction with Mica solution.

This chemical reaction would produce silicon. Mica is a sillicate mineral from which silicon can be extracted and is used to create solar cells, microprocessors and transistors.

The VS describes two usages of Mica. The first is in the original chemical reaction to obtain silicon. The second, is coating the silicon chemical compound onto plates that are made of Mica. Thin sheets of mica are used in electrical cells, particularly photo-electric cells, as a mosaic to deposit and arrange microscopic globules of the compound such as silicon or silver-cesium in television tubes. This is because mica is highly resistent to electricity and thermal energy.

This alone is even further proof that the VS is indeed discussing real and practical science(some other exact devices: television, mercury ion engine)

Immortality

It certainly belies belief to think few ancient Indians could live to 10,000 to 1 million+ years. Is it just a error in translation? No, it is not, because it describes normal life spans as well. There were very few that actually had life spans in excess of three figures, mostly the Maharishi and yogis had this. We even see references in Babylonian culture of kings who lived to thousands and tens of thousands of years.

Bhisma in the Mahabharata lived to 200 years. Maharishi Bhadarwaja lived from the Treta to the Dvarapa Yuga. According to Hindu Yuga or time system, that means Maharishi Bhadarwaja was more than 432,000 years old. Even older than him was Maharishi Pursuram, who lived from Kriti or Satyuga to Kalyug, almost 1 million years old. If they really did live that long, what did they do all that time? They medidated. A very extreme form of meditation called "tapasya" where they could retire to a mountain and enter a state of meditation for hundreds and thousands of years. This is how they acquired "siddhis" or powers.

There is absolutely no known scientific basis to this kind of immortality by meditation. However, there is a scientific basis to immortality by technology, like nanotechnology. That is nano robots that can repair decaying tissue or malfunctioning body parts or organs. As this technology improves it would be possible to extend the life span of a human being indefinitely. Perhaps, as science advances, we may even discover how to do it quantum dynamically to imitate what the Rishi's could do.

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Sorry, but I'm a Hindu, and I think you fellow Indians are taking this way too far and in the end subverting Hinduism by corrupting its concepts and making them appear far more materialistic than they were.

These are just my thoughts from browsing through these posts:

First off, you didn't need to live for a very long time back in the prior yugas to acquire siddhis. You were born with power, with a close relationship to God. People were very tall, they lived very long on the average (it all depends on your karma, what you are destined to do and thus you live as long as you need to to fulfill that destiny). No nanotech was involved, it was done solely through meditation and the Godlike power within. Yogananda talks of yogis living in the mountains who have lived for thousands of years, and all they do is meditate. Gopi Krishna, a man who awakened his kundalini talked of the possibility of "immortality" with the power he had obtained (he died of course, but the idea is that kundalini can help to attain long life. Nobody is immortal though, as everyone has to experience death, even incarnations of God)

As for robots in the Buddhist doctrines, couldn't they simply be expounding upon the nature of illusion by the presence of machine-men, and other ideas, rather than there actually existing such technology back then?

I've never heard of robots in ancient India, and there's really no reason to believe that such a thing ever occurred, other than the mention of them in some ancient Indian texts.



As for the Aryan Invasion theory, yes, you fellow Indians are partially correct, at least as far as what I've read on the subject, it is highly controversial. There is no hard evidence to prove the Aryan Invasion, and the more evidence that is accumulated does bring the theory into question, and it looks more like a wrong theory. The Vedas, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata and other literature talk of Aryans but not as a race, just as a cultural group that believe in the Vedas. However, the idea that the Aryan Invasion theory has been completely ruled out is not true either.

Mantras are not secret passwords, they're spiritual formulae of words that enable the person reciting it to manifest what he wishes, if he speaks those words with the proper devotion, pronunciation, etc.

Surya did not impregnate Kunti through intercourse or anything like that, she recited a mantra to the Sun (Surya), and Surya came down and gave her a son. If they did have intercourse, it's likely it would have been described in the Mahabharata as it describes just about everything else.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by FoxStriker
I can agree to this topic just for the fact that scientist have found old Ziggarats in India that have part of their side melted to glass, and as told by the Scientist themselves, only an atomic weapon of some kind can cause it to melt the way it did on that ziggarat.


Do you have a source for this information?

(yes, I'm picky. I'm studying anthropology and I haven't read about this one. Color me VERY skeptical, but willing to look for the information.)


www.earth-history.com...

this one did not impress me personally, but....

If you enter vitrified castle walls into google you get tons of links to check out.

[edit on 1/25/2005 by BlackGuardXIII]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Bhagvad Gita, it sounds like you are taking a fundamentalist religious perspective and denying material science and technology to Ancient India, because in some manner you think that degrades your religion. Science and spirituality are not mutually exclusive, in fact, the Hindu model of the universe is very scientific and I will expound on this further in subsequent post. I certainly do not see a materialist culture, I see a spiritual culture that has turned science into a wonderful and beautiful art form of song and dance to express god and his many facets. I cannot say if it was intended, but the Shiva's endless dance of creation and destruction, is the perfect methaphor for the nature of existence.

As for the mention of a yantra-Purush, no the texts do not describe a poetic analogy for man being a machine, they explicitly describe man-made artificial intelligence being applied and utilised by men.

You cannot really evade the materialism in Ancient India, by the very nature of the kind of hierarchal and caste societal system that existed then. As well as the sexual freedom and the reliance on technology/machines. However, I don't see why it is something to be ashamed off. I personally am very thrilled by this discovery of this culture.

[edit on 25-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child


You don't have to believe Ancient India had Vimana technology. It does not matter, if you do or don't, because the experts that matter are convinced. All I'm showing to you, your reason for this, is simply because it does not accord with western historty. That is what is sad about it, seeing as you are an Indian, and would accept a foreingers point of view on your culture over your own. Even though it is a blatant lie. This is what has always fascinated me about the Indian people. It is the only culture that puts others before it. and is generally so ashamed of their own(I've seen a few of the recent Bollywood films) I've never seen this kind of submissive attitude in any culture. I do not want to offend the Indians here but perhaps this is why your country has been invaded over and over again.

Are you a Hindu btw? I am not being racist, I am just curious.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



wow..what a thread..i just stumbled upon it now..
The reason why India was invaded so many times may not directly point to the "weakness" of the Indian culture, it may indicate a sense of tolerance as opposed to barbaric uprisings..Maybe lives were of more value than 'territory' and 'status'..a clause we should pay much more heed to today..
The point about accepting a foreigners view on India, I'm confused..you mean the 'britishers propounded the aryan theory' bit or the fact that 'an ancient advanced indian civ existed' bit ..
And who are these "experts" who have "made up their minds"..and what is their conclusion...?

Also another question..How many Indians on this forum and how many of those stay in India...??

Personally I believe we do not possess the tech to completely understand the exact nature of our history's timeline...
Such thoughts about advanced civs are now coming to us because in the last century we have literally witnessed how, 'fantasies' of one era can resemble realities of another...also what we also know is that history is written in the view of those who write the last version..i.e. those who are victorious in the end...
This is ATS guys, not the US senate for godsakes...keep an open mind..



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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I'm a Hindu.

And yes, I was excited about the prospects of ancient India having advanced technology. No, that would not go against my Hindu upbringing, because most Hindus do believe in yugas, and the cyclical nature of all things.

However, I took offense to the idea that the mantras spoken by those such as Bhima, Kunti, etc. were "passwords" to advanced weapons, or that these people lived long lives due to nanotechnology.

Mantras are spiritual formulas that the person who recites it with conviction and devotion can manifest whatever he desires. That's the purpose of a mantra, not to activate some secret weapon.

People lived long lives back then (supposedly, some still do) because they are one with Brahman, and it is part of their destiny to live these long lives.

It is said in Hindu philosophy that God is able to be reached most easily in Kali Yuga (this era), for lives are shorter, there's less demanding feats needed to achieve God. In Satya Yuga (the golden age), man is like God, but to achieve God, to please God, he must perform some intense feats, possibly meditating in mountains for hundreds, or thousands of years before he is one with Brahman. However in Satya Yuga, it is said that whatever the wish of the person, God fulfills it immediately, while in Kali Yuga, God fulfills it after a long time.


I've never read of any machine in any piece of Hindu literature so that's why I doubt what the Buddhist books mention of machines. If there were truly machines in ancient India, surely there should be some mention of machines in other books such as the Ramayana or Mahabharata. Although I confess to having read condensed versions of these epics, I have not seen one mention of machines in any of them.

I have read of advanced weaponry such as the Brahmastra, but I do not know the nature of those weapons. They could be spiritual or material. The Brahmastra isn't quite like a nuclear weapon though as it could actually be directed towards someone instead of being used for mass destruction. Like when Ashwattama accidentally unleashed the Brahmastra, and targeted Pariksit in the womb of his mother to avoid mass destruction, and Krishna deflected the Brahmastra before it reached there. Or something like that, my memory of the incident may be a bit hazy.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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However, I took offense to the idea that the mantras spoken by those such as Bhima, Kunti, etc. were "passwords" to advanced weapons, or that these people lived long lives due to nanotechnology.

Mantras are spiritual formulas that the person who recites it with conviction and devotion can manifest whatever he desires. That's the purpose of a mantra, not to activate some secret weapon.


Yes, I know mantras are spiritual, but for them to have such powers, they must also have a scientific mechanism. The universe is scientifically designed. If you think of this reality as a holographic matrix as Hindu theory propounds and all matter as a projection of the akasha or ether, then then the recitation of a mantra that materialises something would in effect be like a password for accessing something in a database.

Now in the context of the Mahabharata and Ramayana, this is exactly what happend, the divya-aastra were materialized from *something* by the recitation of a mantra.

I did not say people lived long-lives back then due to nanotechnology. I said that nanotechnology was one of the modern technologies that could make such life-spans more realistic, however, it was not like the Ancient Indian technology, because the ancient Indians did through meditation, as in quantum-dynamically.


I've never read of any machine in any piece of Hindu literature so that's why I doubt what the Buddhist books mention of machines. If there were truly machines in ancient India, surely there should be some mention of machines in other books such as the Ramayana or Mahabharata. Although I confess to having read condensed versions of these epics, I have not seen one mention of machines in any of them.


There are mentions of many yantras in ancient Hindu texts, especially the Ramayana and Mahabharata. I've already discussed a few. I think you have not recognized them, because you are thinking of them as spiritual, basically magic. However, it does specify they are machines, like vimanas, flying machines.

Most modern Hindu's don't seem to know the real meaning of their texts at all, nor know their own history. They take everything literally and this is why Hinduism becomes associated with mythology. For instance, it is believed that Hinduism is a polytheistic culture with a myriad of gods, when in actuality it is made very clear in the Srimad Bhagvatam and Bhagvad Gita, that all the demi-gods are a part of god and manifestations of him and his forces.

If you consider that Ancient Indian was such a scientific culture, the demi-gods could also be poetic names for physical phenomena. I am not stating this as fact, it's a theory and I am working on it. It does not make sense to me that such an advanced culture with so many scientific texts and that calls the vedas, the ultimate knowledge. If one reads the vedas, all one can see is prayers to gods and a lot of agrian references. Yet in the same Vedas there is the odd reference to technology too.

It is impossible to reconcilate the differences, without actually examining the true meaning of the "gods" through comparative studies.

Many don't even know half of the advanced theories of metaphysics and cosmology that those who take a scholary interest in Hinduism do. I am going to discuss the Hindu model of of the universe later.


I have read of advanced weaponry such as the Brahmastra, but I do not know the nature of those weapons. They could be spiritual or material. The Brahmastra isn't quite like a nuclear weapon though as it could actually be directed towards someone instead of being used for mass destruction. Like when Ashwattama accidentally unleashed the Brahmastra, and targeted Pariksit in the womb of his mother to avoid mass destruction, and Krishna deflected the Brahmastra before it reached there. Or something like that, my memory of the incident may be a bit hazy.


Yes, that is true. I am being trying to trace the translation from the Mahabharata of the supposed nuclear war, which does not actually mention a Brahmastra actually. The sanskrit word for nuclear weapon is aNvastraM. I find it extremely telling that there IS actually a Sanskrit word for atomic weapon. There is even a word for atomic weight -paramaaNubhaaraH.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 03:22 AM
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i actually think all of this is a HOAX

done for the purpose of "PRO-India"

they are a very arrogant group of people, and they claim to be the originators of all "high-technology"

its all sensationalist nationalistic propaganda

seriously hardly any of this has any FACTS at all
its just speculations assumptions and wishful thinking

why is this all HOAXED BS?
because of simple things that the HOAXER didnt realize

they say that "all 4 directions of the compass"
well guess what

the Compass was invented in 1400s or 1500s

so basically this is all HOAXED
because they didnt have compasses

wheres your Proof?
all i see is a bunch of writing claiming all this special stuff

basically its all made up by some weirdo in India to support their "pro-india" point of view

they want to make everyone realize that India is the center of all human life and that without India human civilization wouldnt exist

ITS BS!!! i hope anyone with intelligence will not listen to this propaganda because its all hoaxed obviously

they have No Real Proof
just speculation and sensationalism

welcome to the India Weekly World News....




posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 05:55 AM
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Muzzleflash, if your responses in worldwatchers "ancient symbols" thread was not enough to show you as a person, I think this was. You are doing a good job in making people want to ignore you.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
i actually think all of this is a HOAX

done for the purpose of "PRO-India"

they are a very arrogant group of people, and they claim to be the originators of all "high-technology"

its all sensationalist nationalistic propaganda

seriously hardly any of this has any FACTS at all
its just speculations assumptions and wishful thinking

why is this all HOAXED BS?
because of simple things that the HOAXER didnt realize

they say that "all 4 directions of the compass"
well guess what

the Compass was invented in 1400s or 1500s

so basically this is all HOAXED
because they didnt have compasses

wheres your Proof?
all i see is a bunch of writing claiming all this special stuff

basically its all made up by some weirdo in India to support their "pro-india" point of view

they want to make everyone realize that India is the center of all human life and that without India human civilization wouldnt exist

ITS BS!!! i hope anyone with intelligence will not listen to this propaganda because its all hoaxed obviously

they have No Real Proof
just speculation and sensationalism

welcome to the India Weekly World News....



which country are you from?



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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Now, modern man has called this mythology. However, the writers of these ancients epics and documents call it history. As soon as one discards this unfounded arrogance, and is ready to test the veracity of this literature as history, he/she will discover that the advanced technology is described in a practical and empirical sense as opposed to the theoretical or fictional sense.


Ok, so we're supposed to buy that ancient Indians had nukes, flying machines, etc. and then for some inexplicable reason, somehow lost all of this technology, and resumed their clay pots, and riding elephants...

Sure...ok...



Gurkha, flying a swift and powerful vimana
hurled a single projectile charged with the power
of the Universe. An incandescent column of
smoke and flame, as bright as ten thousand suns, rose with
all its splendor.

It was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic
messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race
of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable.
Hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white.

...After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire the soldiers threw
themselves in streams to wash themselves and their
equipment."

Dense arrows of flame, like a great shower, issued
forth upon creation, encompassing the enemy...
A thick gloom swiftly settled upon the Pandava hosts.
All points of the compass were lost in darkness.
Fierce wind began to blow upward, showering dust and gravel.

Birds croaked madly... the very elements seemed disturbed.
The earth shook, scorched by the terrible violent heat of this
weapon.
Elephants burst into flame and ran to and fro in a frenzy...
over a vast area, other animals crumpled to the ground and died.
From all points of the compass the arrows of flame rained
continuously and fiercely. "


You’ve also just described ancient man attributing a large meteorite/comet strike as well.

As for aircraft, could just as easily be describing these Indians mistaking aliens and their craft for gods as well, or even just pure fiction.

The bio-engineering is equally fictional, even in how it sounds.

As for the advanced knowledge, such as speed of light, seems to be a bit of playing with the numbers there…and interpreting what it “could” be.

The big thing is….fine, where are the examples of this? Where are the ruins of these craft? Why did they abandon and forget this technology? Surely they could have ruled the world at the time if they had it, yet they didn’t, nor do any of their enemies or neighbors report this Indian capability.

Sorry, just not buying it.



[edit on 28-1-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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I doubt the propounders of these theories were saying that 'indians'(humans) were technologicaly advanced, more like the characters who are described in the stories were advanced..
And as for the clay potted clause...the indians didn't progress technologically because of numerous reasons...Mughals,british etc...



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 07:05 PM
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Ok, so we're supposed to buy that ancient Indians had nukes, flying machines, etc. and then for some inexplicable reason, somehow lost all of this technology, and resumed their clay pots, and riding elephants...


Gazrok, mate,I appreciate the response. But all you've done is dismissed everything from the first post. It does not seem like you read the entire thread which is full of information and facts. That is being neither honest with me or yourself. We all know how to doubt. We all do it. There is nothing new in doubting, you don't win a prize or gain more brownie points.

Anyhow, is it really difficult to assume that a civilization can be wiped out the world over by some kind of natural cataclysm? Not really, the recent tsunamis have shown us how quickly lands can be flattened.


You’ve also just described ancient man attributing a large meteorite/comet strike as well.


That does not sound like a comet at all, I think one would have to be deaf not to see what that means. However, in any case, this particular translation is very suspect and probably fake. I have read the actual Sanskrit Mausala Parva myself, and I have seen no words like "vimana" or "Gurkha" or "ten thousand suns" with my limited knowledge of Sanskrit.


As for aircraft, could just as easily be describing these Indians mistaking aliens and their craft for gods as well, or even just pure fiction.


Aliens could be involved, after all that is a common theme. However, it is specified that the alien crafts were more advanced than the terrestrial craft. The terrestrial craft are described very explictly in the Vyamaanika Shastra and all other technical information, from which 7 devices have been made and documented.


The bio-engineering is equally fictional, even in how it sounds.


Actually no, it is described in a very scientific way and is near exactly the same way one would clone plants. I have explained this already.


As for the advanced knowledge, such as speed of light, seems to be a bit of playing with the numbers there…and interpreting what it “could” be.


Dude, no offence, but that is a pathetic rebuttal. The numbers are referenced from ancient texts. The figure for the speed of light from the vedas was calculated by professor Kak of the Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering at Louisiana State University. He is a researcher in quantum information processing, neural networks and AI.



The big thing is….fine, where are the examples of this? Where are the ruins of these craft? Why did they abandon and forget this technology? Surely they could have ruled the world at the time if they had it, yet they didn’t, nor do any of their enemies or neighbors report this Indian capability.


I am not sure you know, but we are talking about possibly 10,000 years ago. Western recorded history begins from 5000 years ago. However, in the neighboring countries like China and Arabia, there are also mentions of what seems to be advanced technology. For instance in Egypt, an ancient model aeroplane was discovered. In China, there is mention of a king who orders his engineers to build him a flying plane.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It does not seem like you read the entire thread which is full of information and facts. That is being neither honest with me or yourself.

Believe me, there is every reason to doubt. I have come across reports saying that these are badly translated and outright fabricated.

It's similar to what Sitchin does with his "Nibiru" stuff from Enumma Elish. I will try to post the link in another message.



Anyhow, is it really difficult to assume that a civilization can be wiped out the world over by some kind of natural cataclysm? Not really, the recent tsunamis have shown us how quickly lands can be flattened.

But it didn't destroy everything. On the contrary, it left a LOT of traces. There's rubble everwhere, and a lot of it buried under mud where it could be found 800,000 years from now. Cataclysms often preserve; as Vesuvius did for Pompeii. Nuclear weapons leave a LOT of traces.

And old roads can be easily found. They use satellite images to find old roads in the desert that have been abandoned for a thousand years or more. Field boundaries can be found, house boundaries can be found... large cities don't just vanish without traces.




However, in any case, this particular translation is very suspect and probably fake. I have read the actual Sanskrit Mausala Parva myself, and I have seen no words like "vimana" or "Gurkha" or "ten thousand suns" with my limited knowledge of Sanskrit.


This matches some comments I've seen on the net.


Aliens could be involved, after all that is a common theme.

I believe that you'll find that most Hindus are appalled at such a notion and would strongly disagree with you. Certainly one of our Hindu members here has come out to say that this is all wrong.



Actually no, it is described in a very scientific way and is near exactly the same way one would clone plants. I have explained this already.


Uhm, no and no. You can assign meanings and concepts to the vague terms like "fire means... etc etc" and then change it for another context (which they would not have done) to mean something else and announce that "Yes, it's accurate!"

But it isn't. And furthermore, plant cloning is done by a number of different techniques.


The figure for the speed of light from the vedas was calculated by professor Kak of the Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering at Louisiana State University. He is a researcher in quantum information processing, neural networks and AI.

...by someone who ALREADY knew the answer. Heck, if you give me some sort of mystical formula, I can use it to prove that you know the speed of light in water (different than the speed in a vacum) or the mass of the Earth or anything I like.




The big thing is….fine, where are the examples of this? Where are the ruins of these craft? Why did they abandon and forget this technology? Surely they could have ruled the world at the time if they had it, yet they didn’t, nor do any of their enemies or neighbors report this Indian capability.


I am not sure you know, but we are talking about possibly 10,000 years ago. Western recorded history begins from 5000 years ago. However, in the neighboring countries like China and Arabia, there are also mentions of what seems to be advanced technology. For instance in Egypt, an ancient model aeroplane was discovered. In China, there is mention of a king who orders his engineers to build him a flying plane.


10,000 years ago is recent enough to leave a LOT of traces.

And no, that's not a model of a plane. That's been debunked a lot of times (if you go there and look, it's clearly NOT a plane. If they'd had this technology and been visiting other places, they would have runways all over the globe and the people of the world would all speak some sort of derivative of Hindu.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It's not a famous Indian article. As I said ancient Indian society was a bizaree dichatomy. This kind of knowledge was only for the elite. Further, Indians do know about their past history and accept it as fact.


We've had one Indian in here who tells you that this is not true, and you lecture him on his not knowing his own country and culture. I asked around (we have a number of Indian students here at the university) and nobody knew this (and they were the "elite" you are talking about) and dismissed the ideas as wild fiction. They lived in India all their lives and have come here for the university. They will return to India with their degree.


I would like you to further corroborate this article, as it is from a uncredible site. The site on at the Indian ADA mentions the Vyaamnika Shastra was penned around 1900 to 1923.

The Steiger book is well-known. It existed long before the Internet (you can find it in your library.) Remember that Steiger was one of the early researchers in the paranormal and back then, "channeling" a book was given a lot of cachet by the people who were into the paranormal.


B. The Author Maharishi Baradwaja was a famous a sage that lived in the Hindu Dvarpa and Treta Yuga. He is in the ansectory of Guru Dronacharya, who lived in the age of the Mahabharata. At least 3000 years ago. He penned the Yantra Sarwaswa(all about machines) which is a masterwork on science, of which the science of aeronautics or VS is a part. However, the Yantra Sarsawa has not been found. Baradwaja is also the common author of the Anshu Bodhini(an ancient cosmological work) and Srauta Shastra.

C.Bodhandana, a 10th century scholar wrote vriti or commentory on the VS. This suggests that at the very least the VS is 1000 years old.

In the late 19th century, a textural reference is made to the VS by Maharshi Dayananda saraswati, whom had given clarification on the direction of thrust of propulsive devices of Vimanas quoting Rig-Bhashya Bhumika. This was dated to be in 1875.

D. The VS materialised in manuscript form between 1908 to 1918 by mystic scholar Anekal Subbaraya Shastry. Anekal claimed to have recieved knowledge of the VS, among other things in a spiritual awakening . He first mentioned the VS to a scientist Dr. Talpade in India in the late 19th century.


The Akshakic records is a similar to a concept Carl Jung theorized, called the collective unconsciousness. That is all events in our space-time are recorded in a layer of space-time that we can access.



Please note that "mixing with ethereal force 10 parts of air force" certainly isn't chemistry. It doesn't say whether those parts are "parts by weight" or "parts by volume" -- a huge oversight and the difference is considerable and disastrous.

That's not chemistry. That's Silly Science.


It sounds like silly science to us, because we do not recognize what the author is referring to. Nor have we discovered the ether, though are possibly close with vacuum field physics.

It's not science. To take your example of the 5 elements, there's not enough information there. You have no way of describing how to make 3-ACETYLOXINDOLE or what its properties are:
www.orgsyn.org...

It can't describe manufacturing methods for plastics (which needs more than just chemicals; it has a complex process.



By using the electric power and mixing it with the 1st type of wind in a glass tube, and striking the xy-loha, 6th type of fire will be released, by passing this to a mirror and projecting this onto a screen coated in special chemical mixture, it will reveal the insides of an organism.


You prove my point for me. That's not science. And the "first type of wind" has to be a certain frequency and strength or you'll fry the patient. You'd need a lot more information.


Now, that is written in such a way. That nobody could make use of it, without refering to an external table that contains the required information. This is to safe guard technology from it falling in the wrong hands. We will see this to be true in the following secrets in the VS:


Thing is, it doesn't NEED to be hidden from anyone. Either they were the same level as the Indians, which meant they could deconstruct captured technology (as we did and other countries did from captured spy planes and equipment) or it was unreachable simply because the Other Guy wasn't advanced enough to use it (I could describe the methods used to make an electron microscope very precisely to you and you couldn't make one if the only technology available to you was tech at the level of what we had in the 1800's.)

And "using a table" isn't possible. As an example, look at how they make one brand of "artificial turf".
www.synthetic-turf.com...

Those bullet points are the thing you're talking about, but I assure you that behind each one of those is NOT a little table. It's a huge manual. And in order to really duplicate that, you need a lot of chemicals and formulas, etc.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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Byrd, I already told you earlier, the only case you can make is to show that the Indians government, scholary and scientific community and researchers are lying. Good luck.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Byrd, far be it from me to tell a super-moderator her job (even though my brilliance is matched only by my modesty and humility), but don't you think you're wasting your time on this thread?

Some people are amenable to logic and reason; others, I fear, are not.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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What difference does it make though? If there is or is not proof of it is kind of interesting, but what is the big deal?
If all these groups are lying, what is their motive?
It is all just sharing ideas, and I try not to take it too seriously.
Of course, the sight of a machine gun definitely makes me feel I should always be alert.






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