Proof: Advanced Ancient Indian Civilization existed

That's a great link, Harte, thanks. It will be a while before I retire, barring a lotto win. For eight years I was able to read a couple of hours a night, because I chose not to hook up cablevision. Now I am engaged, and cable is back, and I have little time to read. When I do get some time I usually find myself here, or on other sites reading about peace and famine and such. Tonight I saw one site claiming that 4000 kids an hour die due to poverty... which is about double what I had previously thought. The description of the end of the Kaliyuga that I read was a pretty good match for this age. Though now is not much worse than any other time, I guess. Just more of the same.

ok so what have we got so far in 5 years since a pre ice age city was announced to the international media by the minister for tourism
a piece if wood
a piece of doubtable pottery
lots of speculation from believers
how big is this city supposed to be again ?

seen this?
antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by TheLightBringer
seen this?
antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Yes, they are famous. Nature can do marvelous things without our help, even nuclear reactors!

Doug

Originally posted by orionthehunter
I've seen tv footage of underwater structures off the coast of Japan. Apparently the idea that there may have been ancient somewhat advanced eastern civilizations before any that we know of in the west has some people upset as I've read on the following website.

www.morien-institute.org...

Just accepting the evidence that man had somewhat advanced civilizations over 10,000 years ago when ocean levels were lower would cause a rewrite of the history books. Of course I believe the evidence would have to be falling over in your face for some to change their opinions.

The structures off the coast of Japan look manmade to me. That area of the ground was last above water over 10,000 years ago from all reports I've heard.

And Robert Schoch disagrees with you. He's a geologist and he saw them in person.

Doug

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Supposedly, the first homo sapien sapien, indistinguishable from modern man, lived around 250 000 years ago. In the last 10 000 years we have gone from stone age to space age. There is plenty of time for many previous ones. In 10 000 years, how many existing manmade structures will still remain? And if there was a large extinction level size impact event, what would survive? I would say the best bet would be the great pyramid. Clearly, skyscrapers are fragile, and even something as massive as the three gorges dam could very possibly be destroyed by quakes, and or tidal waves.
Geneticists report that our dna shows evidence of at least one instance of being severely 'pinched' in the past. The lack of variance suggests that we were reduced to a very small number of people sometime in our past.
There may not be evidence that everyone would accept that proves any past high tech., but there is enough for me. In my world, that is all I am concerned with anyway. Others must make their own calls.

Evidence of dams, cuttings for roads and trains and other massive earthworking done for various constructions would survive.Sediments showing where there had been dams if the dams vanish entirely. Mines. The basements of highrise buildings. Gold teeth and anything made of gold and several other metals. Plastic stuff of all kinds. Mount Rushmore. To quote someone else, "The world is criss crossed with
an incredibly fine lattice of roads and railways. The physical evidence of
their existence would survive for hundreds of millions of years in the form
of layered and banked deposits of rubble, shale, tar and artificial concrete.
Buried railway sleepers would vitrify in dry conditions, still displaying
bolt holes, staple marks and carved initials. Bricks would be found
everywhere, complete with manufacturers markings." Satellites in high orbit.

These things would be around a million years from now.
And we can find evidence of primitive settlements tens of thousands of years old even now. Cities should leave much more evidence, as would a transportation infrastructure.

Oh, and I think HSS has been around less than 250000 - 150000?

Doug

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Doug Weller]

Originally posted by kshatreya_putrudu
Ancient Civilizations did exist in India. They are certainly the oldest to date.
Here are a few of the sites that I found:

1) Dwaraka - The hometown of Krishna:

www.atributetohinduism.com...

2) A bridge from India to Sri Lanka has been discovered. Rama built this bridge to lead his army to get Sita who was abducted by Ravana who lived in Lanka.

www.ufoarea.com...

That is not a bridge. Do you ever actually check these claims? I doubt that you really believe everything you read, so why don't you check claims like these?


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From: Doug Weller - view profile
Date: Sun 7 Dec 2003 11:33
Email: Doug Weller
Groups: sci.physics, sci.archaeology
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:50:34 GMT, Rick Sobie wrote:
> In article , [email protected] says...

>>On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 09:31:20 GMT, Rick Sobie wrote:

>>> Indian cave art goes back 500,000 years.

>>Before homo sapiens sapiens. The web site you mention doesn't make that
>>claim though, what's your evidence for it?

>>> They were farming in the bronze age.

>>Everyone was farming in their bronze age, whenever it was, Rick. So?

>>> www.kamat.org...

>>> The ancient writings tell of flying machines and a nuclear
>>> war

>>No, they are intepreted by some people as telling of such events. There is
>>no evidence that that is actually what the descriptions are about.

> www.rense.com...

> Here, is a land bridge, recently discovered, by NASA satellite imaging.

> Estimated to be, approx. 1,750,000 years old.

> The date and the construction of the bridge itself, is recorded
> in the ancient texts.

Old news and false.
www.hindustantimes.com...

(url doesn't work know but gives date of article).

"NASA said the mysterious bridge was nothing more than a 30 km long,
naturally-occuring chain of sandbanks called Adam's bridge. [sometimes
called Rama's Bridge] Hess said his agency had been taking pictures of
these shoals for years. Its images had never resulted in any scientific
discovery in the area.

The Internet story further claimed "archaeological studies reveal that the
first signs of human inhabitants in Sri Lanka date back to…about 1.75
million years ago" as does the age of the bridge. This, in turn, matched
the age when the events of the Ramayana took place.

Historian B.D. Chattopadhyay of Jawaharlal Nehru University says the
archaeological record says nothing of the sort. There is no evidence of a
human presence in the subcontinent, he says, before roughly 250,000 to
300,000 years ago. It is generally believed man's hominid ancestors did not
leave their African home until about two million years ago.

At least three ship channels have been dug through Adam's Bridge without
any evidence of manmade construction. The sandbanks are not at a greater
depth, never being more than 3 or 4 feet at high tide. Geologists believe
the sandbank did at one time rise above sealevel.

Temple records suggest it was submerged by a violent storm as recently as
1480.

Communication experts say that false, suspect news finds much greater
circulation than normal because of the internet. NASA's Hess said, "The
images reproduced on the websites may well be ours, but their
interpretation is certainly not ours.""

Adam's or Rama's bridge has been known about long before NASA took pictures
of it. Someone found the pictures (not the earliest ones either, NASA has
earlier photos of course) and fabricated a story around them.

Originally posted by Loungerist

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by VDS
Is this genuine about the irradiated skeletons that has radiation levels on par with bodies in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

No.

In the 1920s, 39 (37 or 38 according to some sources) skeletons - many incomplete - were found, laying in a manner suggesting they'd met violent deaths. I think later forensic studies indicated knife wounds?

Radioactive testing had not come into use yet by the time of those excavations. That was not until after the bombing of Hiroshima. The radiation content was found later and reported by Russian archeologists in the mid 1960s. Before Hiroshima we didn't have a full frame of referrence for what kind of disaster could cause the manner of destruction found at Mohenjo-Daro. Though still you would think even before the (re?)advent of the atomic bomb that researchers could have concieved a better theory than knife-wielding invaders. You're not going to slaughter people near-instantly right where they stand or fuse matter into crystal by using a knife.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by Loungerist]

Which may be why there isn't matter there fused into crystal? Have you any evidence - you know, archaeological reports -- that these skeletons aren't from people who met ordinary but violent deaths?

Doug the solid orthodox research behind the Harappan radioactive skeletons is from David Hatcher Childress
nuff said

Originally posted by Divya

Originally posted by timoothy
here's proof enough for me,Evidence of Ancient Atomic Explosion


www.s8int.com...

That verse from the Mahabharata that is quoted again and again is completely false. At no point in the Mahabharata has this verse been mentioned. That verse is a blatant misinterpretation of someone who has disregarded facts and woven his own little fantasy. Im guessing its Charles Berlitz. What baffles me is that Discovery telecasts every UFO/Mysterious lost civ shows and quotes that verse without even bothering to find out if that verse is actually mentioned in the epic. By no means does this mean that super weapons and its atomic like effects are not mentioned.Sure they are and they are more mentioned in the Ramayana than the Mahabharata. There are translations of both the epics in English and i suggest a good read.

Berlitz it is.

From an old post of mine dealing with a couple of the subjects in this thread:
A few more points.
rom Usenet (sci.archeology) Message-ID:
"I grew up near Mohenjodaro and visited it often as a child. The ground
isn't fused. It's very dusty! The walls are not fused. The bricks are
not even glassified. Most are sundried bricks. Some are fired in kilns,
clearly similar to the kilns still in use in the area. Were it
glassified and fused, there would not be the problem with the water table
and salinity which is decaying the ruins rapidly."

Elsewhere Bernard pointed out that the actual affects of nuclear weapons on
skeletons (something we have relatively recent experience of) does not
leave radioactive skeletons behind. The bodies are either destroyed by
blast, killed by gamma rays or burned to a cinder.

Damian Walter wrote: "In his 1962 article, "The Mythical Massacre at

Mohenjo-daro" (Expedition, Vol. VI, no. 3), George Frankin Dales writes:
"What of these skeletal remains that have taken on such undeserved
importance? Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) -
a city of three miles in circuit - yielded the total of some 37 skeletons,
or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period
of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions
and groupings that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either
disarticulated or incomplete. They were all found in the area of the Lower
Town - probably the residential district. Not a single body was found
within the area of the fortified citadel where one could reasonably expect
the final defence of this thriving capital city to have been made [...]."
[bold emphasis added]"

And see this interview:
www.frontlineonnet.com...
" There is frequent reference in general discourse to the possibility of
malaria in India having reduced populations and thereby caused the decline
of either a state, or a society, or an area. The skeletons of people found
lying in the city of Mohenjodaro, point to their having suffered from
severe anaemia."

This might be relevant:
www.indianchild.com...
"The Rajasthan Atomic Power Station
in Rawatbhata, India was closed
indefinitely, as of February 1995.
Moreover, environmental problems,
caused by radiation leaks, have
cropped up in communities near
Rawatbhata."

(But as I have said, there just isn't evidence for most of the claims on
that web page).

To be continued

The claim I have seen is for verses from the ancient (6500 BC at the latest) Mahabharata:

...a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...

..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognisable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.

I need hardly point out that the date given is as fictional as the rest.

Note however what this great website says:
www.uforq.asn.au...
"In my opinion, the nadir of deceptive misrepresentation is attained not by
Leslie but by Charles Berlitz in his 1974 book The Bermuda Triangle
(chapter 8), in which occurs the following: 'A description of a special
weapon launched against an opposing army goes as follows:" thence comes
this lengthy quotation from the Mahabharata:

'A single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An
incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in
all its splendour…. It was an unknown weapon, and iron thunderbolt, a
gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the
Vrishnis and Andhakas…. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognisable.
Their hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without any apparent cause,
and the birds turned white. After a few hours, all foodstuffs were
infected…. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in
streams to wash themselves and all their equipment.'

I have reproduced this quotation exactly as it appears in Berlitz's book in
order to illustrate my point. Readers could naturally assume that Berlitz
was quoting one single passage with a few superfluous words omitted here
and there, which on face value reads like an ancient writer's account of an
atomic explosion and its aftermath. How wrong they would be. What Berlitz
has done is to collate various totally unrelated excerpts from different
chapters of the Mahabharata and weave them into one apparently seamless
fabric, but a dissection of the passages in question reveals the truth. The
front part, 'a single projectile --- all its splendour' has its origin in
Karna Parva, section 34. The second part, 'it was an unknown weapon ---
Andhakas' derives from Mausala Parva section 1, reconnecting events which
occurred no less than 36 years after the great battle which is the central
focus of the Mahabharata. A third part 'the corpses --- unrecognisable'
refers back in time to the much earlier Drona Parva section 201, and the
already mentioned Agneya weapon. The fourth part, 'the hair and nails ---
infected' leaps forward in time once again to Mausala Parva, section 2. In
the fifth part, 'to escape --- equipment,' we are time-warped back to Drona
Parva section 197. In just one paragraph, Berlitz has managed to cobble and
stich five unrelated excerpts, widely separated in both place and time, and
presented them as one coherent whole allegedly representing a nuclear
explosion. It is a totally dishonest cut and past job which does Berlitz no
credit at all." ...
"As a final parting shot, I simply cannot pass over in silence the fourth
part of the above passage, which must rank as a classic of selective
misquotation. Hair and nails falling out, birds turning white, food being
infected - all very evocative of radioactive contamination in the aftermath
of a nuclear explosion. What section 2 of the Mausala Pareva actually says,
however, paints a very different picture. The full passage is rather
lengthy, so I have presented the relevant excerpts:
TBC

Excerpts:



'Day by day strong winds blow and many were the evil omens that arose,
awful and foreboding the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The
streets swarmed with rats and mice. Earthen pots showed cracks or broken
(sic) from no apparent cause. At night, the rats ad mice ate away the hair
and nails of slumbering men. --- many birds appeared, impelled by death,
that were pale of complexion but that had legs red of hue --- the
Vrishni's, committing sinful acts, were not seen to feel any shame --- they
insulted and humiliated their preceptors and seniors --- wives deceived
their husbands and husbands their wives --- the sun, whether when rising or
setting over the city, seemed to be surrounded by headless trunks of human
form. In cook rooms, upon food that was clean and well boiled were seen,
when it was served out for eating, innumerable worms of diverse kinds,'
etc.

it should be quite apparent that, as clearly and unambiguously stated at
the beginning of the passage, what we have here is yet another example of
the 'omens and portents' discussed earlier, but presented in a novel form.
Hair and nails did not fall out, they were eaten by mice. To say that white
birds appeared is quite different from birds turning white. (I am simply
analysing this passage at face value. We need not suppose that any of this
actually happened.) it is almost superfluous of me to ad that the
destruction of said Vishnis and Andhakas does not occur until two pages
after the above passages, not before it. The latter is not describing the
effects of such destruction but rather the portents which preceded it."

It's worth reading the rest of that web page. I'm saving it

Originally posted by Doug Weller
...It's worth reading the rest of that web page. I'm saving it

Doug,

Well, once again you come through!

Though I was already aware of the misrepresentations, I hadn't saved such a useful webpage to throw at the "believers" as the one you provided.

Thanks for always providing me with what I crave!

Harte

reply to post by Indigo_Child


If they had such advanced surgical procedures why was their life span so damm short?Advanced surgery surely would have increased their life span ehh?At least by a few years.

Why didn't any of them go to the moon?If they were so advanced why not have machines to aid you in your work?(let me guess they were to spiritual?)

I'd say the ancient nuclear civilization theory just got dealt a killing blow.

It really ticks me off how people are willing to flat out lie and manipulate "evidence" to further their claims of ancient civilizations (or UFOs...or anything else discussed on this website).

I'd like to make a few points, mostly relating to earlier pages in this thread, and a description of "the 5 elements" wind water fire earth and ether and this being wrong, and to a general argument used by many of the skeptics here.

I think an important thing to consider is this: these texts are NOT equivalent to user manuals or uni textbooks on the sciences/tech, but more like what you would get if you tried to explain the current state of physics knowledge to a middle ages scholar, who then tried to pass on this knowledge orally for a bit and finally someone else (perhaps a priest recording it more for religious reasons) wrote down what was left of it: WHAT WOULD BE LEFT?

descriptions of machines using middle ages language, with simplifications and mistakes, eg A silicon chip might be described as a magic crystal (since the silicon is a slice of crystalline silicon) but lots of tidbits of fact/interesting descriptions. EG the speed of light accurate (supposedly) to 99% or better (which IF true is enough proof for me BY ITSELF to convince me of a far more advanced civilisation than thought by many)

so when I read stuff like everything is made of 5 elements but then everything also is made of "atoms" and these have their own properties etc, I find this extremely interesting. Why?

what are the four states of matter?
solid liquid gas and plasma. WHat if earth water air and fire are simply EXAMPLES of matter in each of the four states, not the ACTUAL elements as we know them?
where does that leave ether? perhaps this describes zero point fluctuations, perhaps this describes matter being converted to energy (eg by antimatter anhiialation), I have no idea, my point is that what started out looking like incorrect mumbo jumbo mixed with semi accurate knowledge (everything is made from either earth wind water fire or ether, but also has atoms...) turns into something which MAY be entirely accurate: eg

all matter is made of atoms (insert semi accurate vedic atomic description here) and is in the form of solid (example earth) liquid (example water) gas (example air/wind) or plasma (example fire*) .... see what Im getting at here? someone misunderstood this to mean all matter was ACTUALLY made of water, fire etc.


* yes I know flames usually only have a very small amount of the constituent matter as plasma, but show a plasma torch to a 16th century person, they will call it flames/fire

anyone read my comment like to respond?

five elements are EXAMPLES of 4 known states of matter: solid (earth) liquid (water) gas (wind/air) plasma (fire), plus ether... (zero point fluctuations in a vacuum?, higgs boson flux?I dunno) NOT actual "elements" as we know them...

damn I thought that was a REALLY interesting idea (no idea if I came up with it first or not, though I doubt it) about the elements, but no one has said anything...

I actually think you have a really interesting interpretation, that the elements are states of matter and not actual elements, and then I never thought about the fifth element, ether, to be just a zero-state of nothingness or vacuum, but then when you look at the goal of meditation, to have a mind VOID of thoughts like a vacuum, then it actually makes a lot of sense.

I'm sort of disappointed that this thread is so old and even more so that there are so many people skeptical about it either because a lack of proof or some other stupidity such as the ocean level couldn't have allowed advanced civilization. Look at all that's been developed just in the past century, such a big leap. The human race has been around for hundreds of thousands of years if not millions, what the hell were we doing that whole time, sitting around?

The vedas mention clearly the existence of an antimaterial world and a material world, things "scientists" have claimed to just now discover, but they don't even have an idea what's going on still. They produce scholarly texts that contain information they get by "measuring" its properties but any fool can tell you how tall he is and how much he weighs. People need to stop accepting blindly all the "facts" that scientists tell people.

You know, if you mix this thread with 'Stargates are real' by undo in the Ufo section, then it becomes clear why there are no archeological proof of advanced sivilizations thousands of years ago.

Some of those who had advanced technology came here in spaceships and made a stargate wich many more alien people came through, did the things our ancestors withnessed, and then returned home taking their things with them leaving nothing for our archeologs to find.

On the other hand there is no archeologic proof because they have not dig at the right places yet. Archeologs have not dug up all the world; actually only a few spots have been dug up yet, considering the size of the world.