Scientists Warn of Perilous Climate Shift Within Decades, Not Centuries

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Eh, TPTB aren't even sweating it at this point. The purchasing power, power "of the people", it's all disintegrating before our very eyes.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You're doing you fellow humans no favours in promoting climate change fearmongering, the only winners are the JP Morgans who will control the Carbon trading markets through manipulation - same like they did with the Housing mortgages.

You can keep thinking its about saving the earth but in actual fact its all about money and any costs will always be passed onto the consumer whilst industry will always have a get out of jail card provided through lobbying of politicians or relocating to "friendlier legal regime" countries .

www.youtube.com...

The WHOLE TRUTH about Agenda 21 CARBON TAX

Published on 8 Jun 2013 Carbon Tax is based on a monumental lie... It steals our sovereignty and places it directly in the hands of the international banking corporations. Do you really think that these large multinational organizations that are responsible for carbon emissions will find "Carbon Tax" a deterrent in any way? - No way. They will just pass it on to the general public through increased prices. The reality is that this is a tax that only the wealthy can afford, the rest of us will be driven into povert

or

www.knowthelies.com...

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is responsible for providing the hobgoblin of global warming. They claim CO2 is almost the sole cause of warming while effectively ignoring the sun. Their claim that the sun is of little consequence is unbelievable and only a measure of their deception and lousy science. They only looked at one part of solar influence on weather and climate and didn’t do that accurately. Instead they used it to support their claim the temperature changes are not caused by the sun and therefore must be due to CO2. They only considered irradiance (heat and light) and concluded, incorrectly, it was of little consequence. They assume, because the variation is approximately 0.1% over approximately a 30-year period, it is of little consequence. The number certainly seems small when expressed as a percentage of 100. However, it is estimated that only a 6% variation is sufficient to explain all known temperature variation in the history of the Earth. So 0.1% is significant in relation to 6%. To put this in context consider how much the temperature drops between night and day or even for the brief period of a total eclipse. As solar and climate scientist Willie Soon said, “We have known for 80 years that even small changes in solar radiation have a strong effect on Earth’s temperature and climate.” The IPCC do not include changes in sun/earth relationships collectively called the Milankovitch effect, a major cause of temperature change.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You're doing you fellow humans no favours in promoting climate change fearmongering, the only winners are the JP Morgans who will control the Carbon trading markets through manipulation - same like they did with the Housing mortgages.

As opposed to the oil companies funding many different organizations and foundations to promote bad science and create propaganda to deflect from talking about it all to protect their precious profits, meanwhile they acknowledge climate change as real secretly and are making changes internally to reflect this?

Shell worries about climate change, but decides to continue making it worse

You can keep thinking its about saving the earth but in actual fact its all about money and any costs will always be passed onto the consumer whilst industry will always have a get out of jail card provided through lobbying of politicians or relocating to "friendlier legal regime" countries .

www.youtube.com...

The WHOLE TRUTH about Agenda 21 CARBON TAX

Published on 8 Jun 2013 Carbon Tax is based on a monumental lie... It steals our sovereignty and places it directly in the hands of the international banking corporations. Do you really think that these large multinational organizations that are responsible for carbon emissions will find "Carbon Tax" a deterrent in any way? - No way. They will just pass it on to the general public through increased prices. The reality is that this is a tax that only the wealthy can afford, the rest of us will be driven into povert

or

www.knowthelies.com...

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is responsible for providing the hobgoblin of global warming. They claim CO2 is almost the sole cause of warming while effectively ignoring the sun. Their claim that the sun is of little consequence is unbelievable and only a measure of their deception and lousy science. They only looked at one part of solar influence on weather and climate and didn’t do that accurately. Instead they used it to support their claim the temperature changes are not caused by the sun and therefore must be due to CO2. They only considered irradiance (heat and light) and concluded, incorrectly, it was of little consequence. They assume, because the variation is approximately 0.1% over approximately a 30-year period, it is of little consequence. The number certainly seems small when expressed as a percentage of 100. However, it is estimated that only a 6% variation is sufficient to explain all known temperature variation in the history of the Earth. So 0.1% is significant in relation to 6%. To put this in context consider how much the temperature drops between night and day or even for the brief period of a total eclipse. As solar and climate scientist Willie Soon said, “We have known for 80 years that even small changes in solar radiation have a strong effect on Earth’s temperature and climate.” The IPCC do not include changes in sun/earth relationships collectively called the Milankovitch effect, a major cause of temperature change.

*eye roll*

I like how I proved you wrong about the Climategate thing and you just drop that without even acknowledging it again. So then I dismantle your followup article, except you've dropped that without acknowledging that either. You don't address any science and you give me Youtube videos and some random internet users' propaganda website to debunk it. Par the course for a denialist argument. I assume your next course of action is to start talking about Al Gore, no?

Fear mongering? Psh. Your entire argument is propaganda 101. Deflect, deny, obfuscate.

a reply to: lostbook

From what I gather about the Younger Dryas event, it happened over a period of many decades; roughly over a period of a couple hundred to a thousand years. Man made climate change is happening much more rapidly and I think it will take place over a much shorter time period.

The YD was spread over a period not more than a thousand years,though the change in temperature happened on a very short time scale, a year, couple months or even couple weeks. The date is so compressed that an accurate measure isn't possible.
Man made climate change is supposedly going on for +100 years, nothing to do with the YD event.

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: lostbook

From what I gather about the Younger Dryas event, it happened over a period of many decades; roughly over a period of a couple hundred to a thousand years. Man made climate change is happening much more rapidly and I think it will take place over a much shorter time period.

The YD was spread over a period not more than a thousand years,though the change in temperature happened on a very short time scale, a year, couple months or even couple weeks. The date is so compressed that an accurate measure isn't possible.
Man made climate change is supposedly going on for +100 years, nothing to do with the YD event.

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't find an exact timeline for the Younger Dryas so I had to make my best guess.

Sea levels are rising - Some pacific islands are in danger of going under already.

Just because big business and govt's are using it to tax us does not mean the problem does not exist.

As usual they are just profiting from us in every way they can think of.

just posting a link, you might be interested in

UNACCOUNTED FOR ARCTIC MICROBES APPEAR TO BE SPEEDING UP GLACIER MELTING

maybe worth a discussion?

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
just posting a link, you might be interested in

UNACCOUNTED FOR ARCTIC MICROBES APPEAR TO BE SPEEDING UP GLACIER MELTING

maybe worth a discussion?

Thanks for the info. Another issue is the fact that the oceans are not uniform. It's actually different bodies of water and not all water is the same level everywhere. Certain places are at more risk than others because of this.

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: lostbook

From what I gather about the Younger Dryas event, it happened over a period of many decades; roughly over a period of a couple hundred to a thousand years. Man made climate change is happening much more rapidly and I think it will take place over a much shorter time period.

The YD was spread over a period not more than a thousand years,though the change in temperature happened on a very short time scale, a year, couple months or even couple weeks. The date is so compressed that an accurate measure isn't possible.
Man made climate change is supposedly going on for +100 years, nothing to do with the YD event.

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't find an exact timeline for the Younger Dryas so I had to make my best guess.

Well said....!

originally posted by: johnb
Sea levels are rising - Some pacific islands are in danger of going under already.

Just because big business and govt's are using it to tax us does not mean the problem does not exist.

As usual they are just profiting from us in every way they can think of.

Well said...!

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

The IPCC and professional climatologists are very aware of the influence of solar forcing and have modeled it extensively and measured the influence.

Furthermore, there are direct physical signs pointing to changes in climate from the greenhouse effect which would not be seen with increased solar output (which has not been observed). These include particularly large Arctic warming, warming more significant at night and winter, stratospheric cooling, and moreover directly observed changes in infrared radiation.

And in any case, solar forcing does nothing to turn off the influence of the greenhouse effect and the changes humans have made to the atmosphere.

And finally, the climatologists do not consider CO2 to be the only source of heating---it is directly belied by looking in the IPCC reports. There are estimates of influences both positive and negative. CO2 is a dominant positive (warming) influence but far from the only one considered.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

you still think carbon credits are going to save the earth. You have real trust in Wall St - the same manipulators who created every short and squeeze for the last 50 years (ususally paid for by the little man). You have far too much faith in a corrupt system that is self serving.

No where have you shown how a self serving system that encourages studies that "fear monger" can save the Planet. You dont think humans have been taxed to the point of death? Or that the bed partners of the Wall St, the banks, have had enough bail outs? Are you one prepared to take the world back to a stone age in the mistaken belief that all science supporting your fear mongering is done with the highest moral/ethical considerations; do you think there is such as thing as pure science unadulterated by research grants or threats or "revolving door" syndrome between Big Business and Academia.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me a period in mans history when the fate of the many were not decided by the hand of the few in power (and all the corruption it entails)

I really am trying to say this nicely to you, the world does not work the way we would like it to. Get it through to you its not only about the science.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

you still think carbon credits are going to save the earth. You have real trust in Wall St - the same manipulators who created every short and squeeze for the last 50 years (ususally paid for by the little man). You have far too much faith in a corrupt system that is self serving.

Carbon credits? I never mentioned carbon credits and whether or not I was for them or not. This is a strawman argument. Accepting that Global Warming is a reality doesn't necessitate that you agree with carbon credits.

No where have you shown how a self serving system that encourages studies that "fear monger" can save the Planet. You dont think humans have been taxed to the point of death? Or that the bed partners of the Wall St, the banks, have had enough bail outs? Are you one prepared to take the world back to a stone age in the mistaken belief that all science supporting your fear mongering is done with the highest moral/ethical considerations; do you think there is such as thing as pure science unadulterated by research grants or threats or "revolving door" syndrome between Big Business and Academia.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me a period in mans history when the fate of the many were not decided by the hand of the few in power (and all the corruption it entails)

I really am trying to say this nicely to you, the world does not work the way we would like it to. Get it through to you its not only about the science.

Blah blah blah blah. Just a bunch of words covering up the fact that you deny science without looking at scientific evidence. Also, "nicely"? It's actually pretty damn offensive that you created this whole strawman about carbon credits in the first place because you cannot argue about what we were talking about anymore. So don't talk to me about you being "nice" to me. Drop the logical fallacies then come back to me about being nice.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: lostbook

For those of us that survived the 90`s "end of the world global warming" I say: Who cares? Bite me

I am going to drive an 8 cylinder while spraying hair spray into mother earths face. Not really, but I am done with LIARS calling wolf.

Oh no, the world is ending again,.....sigh

Yes, seriously! They scared us in elementary school that Acid Rain would be normal, and the hole in the ozone layer would continue to grow until we were all incinerated. Soon you can add "Global Warming/Climate Change" to that list.

It may be true,,, it may not be true....

But for people in their 40's like me this is the third or fourth time we have heard everyone is going to die in a few years if we dont do something right now..

sorry there is a lot of other things that are much more likely to kill me...

What crony industry is begging for taxpayer money now?

What family Foundation is poised to "train", "lecture", "advise", "assist" in global climate change issues? (for a fee, of course....or a favor.)

What Big Slush Fund has their hands out once again?

Let's you and me keep recycling, working at lessening our so-called carbon footprint, using less plastic, and making the changes we need to make in our communities and our own environment.

But, let's not continue to fund crony non-profits and crony "green energy" endeavors that take our hard earned tax dollars, stay in business a couple of years while their executives rack in the big salaries, then take bailouts for their failures to succeed.

People are tired of being played.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

I prefer the reports I'm getting that state Antarctic ice is increasing, I laughed a couple of years ago reading about the icebreakers kept on getting caught in the rapidly forming sea ice around Antarctica, the scientists sent to study the 'ice loss' being rescued by a chopper from a Chinese ship.

I think we're good. If we've got a few decades minimum of civilization left on this planet, that's more than enough.

I mean if some of these close to worst-case scenario's play out, it would suck to get left behind here for the second half of the century, but I'm okay knowing that we will have advanced our knowledge of other planets and technology to get there to the point that we can survive extreme climate change.

Hansen is a bizarre character, I think he's cherry picking a bit too much. It's as if some of these characters lie to their selves and deep down feel they're justified because of the "what if's" they imagine. I dunno. Maybe so, maybe not, but it doesn't much matter.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: lostbook

For those of us that survived the 90`s "end of the world global warming" I say: Who cares? Bite me

I am going to drive an 8 cylinder while spraying hair spray into mother earths face. Not really, but I am done with LIARS calling wolf.

Oh no, the world is ending again,.....sigh

Yes, seriously! They scared us in elementary school that Acid Rain would be normal, and the hole in the ozone layer would continue to grow until we were all incinerated. Soon you can add "Global Warming/Climate Change" to that list.

Hmmmm.... so polio and smallpox were once very very scary, and now that medical establishment is being alarmist about about pan-resistant bacteria.....since polio and smallpox aren't hurting us, that means that the medical establishment was just BSing us all along and we shouldn't listen to them?

That's the analogy. Everyone can see that it is foolish. Because polio and smallpox truly were dangerous and frightening and they have been eradicated thanks to collective human action informed by correct medical science.

History:

In both of those cases of acid rain and ozone hole, humans, in society, took specific regulatory and environmental action to reverse the man-made physical origins of them both, and the problem got better, as predicted by laws of physics and chemistry. And yes, it took taxes and international regulation.

Where did 'cap and trade' come from? It was a Republican/economist tactic to have a free-market influence on efficiently lowering pollution for acid-rain, started in the late Reagan and early GHWB Administrations. It is still in effect, and it is still a major success.

What isn't happening now? Global warming?