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Brussels Airport Explosions

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posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 07:37 PM
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It's so annoying to hear GROWN PEOPLE say Catholics aren't Christian. GOD!

We have Catholic Christians, and protestant Christians.

Both ARE CHRISTIANS.


for pity's sake




posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 07:39 PM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s I am going to try to stuff any preconceived notions I may have and see what I can come up with.


Well, good luck. There aren't any easy answers; I'm not claiming to have it all figured out. I just think some answers seem more foolhardy than others.




Hey there! I did a lot of reading about no go zones last night and this morning. I used Ebsco and LN, as well as google. I followed the sources listed in various articles as best as I could. I read the rebuttals to the major embarrassing cases. What I found, not surprisingly, is that there ARE in fact "sensitive urban zones" in France for example, but that the designation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a majority Muslim population, sharia law, or terrorism. Many are simply bad neighborhoods with various problems that have been designated for urban renewal of some kind. Fair enough, as we have plenty of those here in the states as well.

Does that mean that there are no places in Europe where a majority Muslim population has not integrated with their host culture? Not at all. There are likely a few neighborhoods in Brussels, for example, where the local version of "snitches get stitches" is in full effect. This is naturally going to complicate any police or intelligence investigation. I give full credit to that notion. It certainly complicates police investigations here in the states. I remember as far back as 1987, in certain neighborhoods near Long Beach, where fire trucks and ambulances did not enter after dark. Where cops would establish a perimeter to keep white drug seekers out of the area in an effort to reduce street crime. I can only imagine what such an area would look like with both language and religious barriers in place to complicate dialog and understanding. I'll bet it *is* terrifying for many of the natives, when neighborhoods in their own city are frankly too dangerous to travel through or into after dark.

Anyway -- I'm just checking in. I haven't forgotten you, or the poster who linked the Federalist article about no go zones (her name slips my mind at the moment, mea culpa! EDIT: ketsuko, thank you for that link, it lead me many interesting places!). This issue is complicated, and I don't claim to have all the answers. Media reports that these guys lived within Brussels for years, and were councilled by local religious leaders who have lived within Belgium for decades ARE disturbing. The notion that one is still willing to see their neighbors as so utterly "other" that they would explode bombs and terrorize them as they travelled, even after living in proximity to them for so long is alien to me. I have no idea how we can reach these kinds of people. I am more certain than ever that we will likely need a carrot AND stick approach (job training, language classes, interfaith outreach AND increased investigation, arrests and deportation or jail for anyone inciting violence, manufacturing weapons and so on).

This is a complex problem. I think we both agree reducing it to us versus them isn't going to cut it.

Cheers!
edit on 23-3-2016 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 07:48 PM
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Topic relevant.. 31 Dead About 300 Injured 61 still Critical, FFS lets get our act's together with security..



Scores of people remain in intensive care following suicide Tuesday's bomb attacks in Brussels that left 31 people dead, Belgium's health minister says.


www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: JustMike
a reply to: draoicht
I said they (meaning its members) "normally claimed to be Catholics"

I cited the IRA purely as an example.


This thread is not the place for an extended exploration of your misconceptions. Please provide even one example of an IRA member claiming to represent the Catholic Church.

There is no parallel to be drawn between the two conflicts.

Feel free to start a thread to deal with this further....

archive.org...

Read the objectives of the organisation responsible for what happened in Brussels. The stated aim of the PIRA was to make the "statlet" of Northern Ireland ungovernable. It was an socio economic conflict. Neither side was concerned with any religious issue. You have a lot to learn if you think there was. No offence intended.


edit on 23-3-2016 by draoicht because: invitation to take this elsewhere to avoid thread drift



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 09:01 PM
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The second bomb in metrostation maalbeek was at 9u 11 o'clock, coincedence? did the terrorists it to could link it to al qaida?



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
What I found, not surprisingly, is that there ARE in fact "sensitive urban zones" in France for example, but that the designation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a majority Muslim population, sharia law, or terrorism. Many are simply bad neighborhoods with various problems that have been designated for urban renewal of some kind. Fair enough, as we have plenty of those here in the states as well.
...
I can only imagine what such an area would look like with both language and religious barriers in place to complicate dialog and understanding.


I did not mean to give the impression that they were only labelled such if they were Muslim, and it is certainly very similar to many places stateside. Yet, some of them are practicing Sharia law, fomenting jihad, and are effectually sizeable sovereign areas inside Western nation states. I think this is a legitimate concern.


The notion that one is still willing to see their neighbors as so utterly "other" that they would explode bombs and terrorize them as they travelled, even after living in proximity to them for so long is alien to me.


Me, too, but not alien to places where the refugees are coming from. Again, a concern.


I am more certain than ever that we will likely need a carrot AND stick approach (job training, language classes, interfaith outreach AND increased investigation, arrests and deportation or jail for anyone inciting violence, manufacturing weapons and so on).


I would agree, but It would need to be very comprehensive in the carrot department. Then my question is if we think it is a good idea to spend the coin for (and provide more comprehensive forms of) those services for foreign aliens to protect our native citizens, why aren't we providing those for millions of under-priviledged US citizens enmired in their own inner-city no-go zones that are not bringing jihadis to our midst? And again, this is not to say that all or even most refugees are jihadis. I just don't think it's sound to gloss over the fact that it is happening right now in Europe. It's not a hypothetical.

I understand wanting to help. It's good and noble. I just don't know that inviting them en masse with no actual effort to screen them is responsible. I also don't have to be part of the impoverished class at home, or a homeless veteran on the street, I'd have serious questions why we are spending the money to subsidize foreigners and bring them here from abroad instead of investing in our own citizens.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: RadioRobert

I'm talking about statistical probabilities here. It goes far beyond coincidence.

How about this coincidence, or shall I say more statistical oddity?

Mason, 19, injured in Brussels bombing and also survived the Boston bombing:
Guardian Video Link, read news blurb below video
edit on 23-3-2016 by WCmutant because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-3-2016 by WCmutant because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: anxiouswens
I dont want innocent muslims punished for this. [/post]



Why do we never hear, "I don't want the innocent gun owners punished", or "I don't want the innocent white people punished", or "I don't want innocent Christians punished", or "I don't want the innocent Republicans/conservatives punished"?



I think it's because those demographics aren't collectively derided for attacks. Islam is often blamed as a whole for these atrocities, but the same standard isn't applied to other demographics like Christians. For example, people flip their # at Islam for terrorist attacks, but no one had a go at Christianity for the actions of Anders Behring Breivik or the many Christian militias in Africa. Interestingly enough, while ISIS and Breivik cite religious influences, their actions are primarily motivated by politics. ISIS wants a caliphate, Breivik wanted to stop the 'invasion of Europe' and left-leaning politics.



Breivik is not and has never been Christian. I suggest you read the manifesto he wrote. His attacks were because of politics, not religion.


The same manifesto where he referred to himself as being "100 percent Christian?" Anders Behring Breivik also referred to himself as a modern-day Crusader and claimed membership of a renewed Templar Order. Hell, the front page of his manifesto was emblazoned with a Templar cross...

You can try and spin the facts all you want, but the guy clearly had influences from Christianity, even though he currently identifies with Odinism.

Breivik isn't what many would consider a Christian, just like how Muslims wouldn't necessarily consider ISIS representative of their religion. That's exactly the point. The guy's actions were politically motivated, despite his religious ramblings. The same can be said for the actions of many extreme Muslims. That's what i said in my initial comment:


Interestingly enough, while ISIS and Breivik cite religious influences, their actions are primarily motivated by politics. ISIS wants a caliphate, Breivik wanted to stop the 'invasion of Europe' and left-leaning politics.


Perhaps you should have made a proper attempt at reading my post before commenting, yourself.



I am just so sick and tired of hearing lies about what happened here in Norway. He did call himself Christian, yes. Has he ever gone to church or been in any other Christian organization, no he has not. The only organization he has ever been a part of briefly is a political party.
He used the templar cross, since he thought it was cool. Not because he was Christian, since he never has been Christian.

Actually now he is Nazi.


I never lied though...

He said he was a Christian. He even said he was baptised. That doesn't mean he represents Christianity. Why should we trust him, or ISIS for that matter, when they say they represent their faiths? That's the point i'm making. They don't represent the things they say they do. They only represent themselves.

People take offence when someone points out that Breivik called himself a Christian, but they're happy to point out that ISIS somehow represents Islam. That's hypocritical.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 04:17 AM
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originally posted by: DerBeobachter
a reply to: Azureblue



So it is not to hard to see who really profits and who is losing the game, it´s not too hard to imagine why terror acts happen, why the "security" agencies are every time so uncoordinated, have too less powers, make too much "mistakes", work almost like blind idiots, while you, as a normal citizen, only have to "steal an apple from the wrong tree" and the police will catch you in minutes.

They need terror acts to continue their repressive mass surveillance policy, to grow their surveillance and police state/world. Not hard to imagine then, that they are the puppetmasters who pull the strings!



Thank you for making these points, they something I had not considered.

I think we should put govts claimed concern for our physical security up against a suitable comparative measuring stick such as their concern for our financial security?

If we compare their claimed concern for our physical security up against their demonstrated, concern for our financial security, IMO their demonstrated concern for our financial security proves the lie to their claim about our physical security.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 05:09 AM
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originally posted by: skywatcher44
I have just posted this link on another thread but it is of relevance here also..



Belgium is a country known for its beer, chocolate, picturesque towns, art - and grey diplomats heading to the EU. It was even once named among the most boring places on earth. But the north European nation was forced into the international spotlight on Tuesday by devastating terror attacks, later claimed by the Islamic State group. Two explosions at Brussels airport and another at a metro station left at least 31 people dead and 250 wounded. So why has Belgium been targeted and why is it being branded "Europe's jihadi HQ"?


www.bbc.co.uk...( What is it with Belgium and jihadis? )

If you consider for a moment that some think terrorism is state sponsored by Empire builders that need an excuse to wage war and that NATO is currently involved in conquering the Middle East, then you can extrapolate the answer to your question.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 05:19 AM
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a reply to: JustMike

Another thing to remember, the higher the brisance (detonation velocity) of said explosive (chart), the higher the velocity of whatever initiator (detonators or blasting caps) used to begin the initiation chain.

Thats why hi explosives are (relatively) more 'stable' than other lower explosive compounds. You can't set it off with a spark or flame like you can gunpowder or fireworks. The reports have them discovering detonators in their bomb factory, this changes the "ease of manufacture" thing, acquiring detonators to initiate hi explosive means they had outside help, probably from smuggling, they have been associated with the criminal element, which also makes any allegiance with Islam suspect, too.

These weren't "Jihadists" like we are expected to believe, they were 'operatives' for a higher power, the identity of which is up to the reader.
edit on 24-3-2016 by intrptr because: spelling



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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originally posted by: EA006

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ANNED

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
The other begging question is where they got that much explosive in Brussels, without the local army base noticing any was missing…


The explosives are easy they made them from locally acquired over the counter products.
I could go to any US Walmart superstore and get the chemicals to build a large bomb.

I will not name the three products needed for making the explosive but they are easy to buy in most US towns.

They are also 100% stable to mix and use and make a great homemade plastic explosive.

Except for initiating a hi order detonation… is not that 'easy'.


It really is that easy. Unfortunately the internet has many guides.


Then you never tried to set off hi explosive without blasting caps (detonators).



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 05:32 AM
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a reply to: skywatcher44


I mean enhanced clever security, those explosives in bags within the airport should have been picked up.

Look dinkums, I don't care how tight security is, given enough time a way can be found to penetrate it. As an example the tightest security in the world at the time didn't prevent a bomb from getting into Hitler's bunker 'holy of holies', did it.

Did it…

Also remind you that Brussels in particular is already the most secure city, being the head of the EU and headquarters to NATO, heavily armed military police stationed in abundance, and armor cars at every strategic location. You want to prevent this from occurring (you didn't, see?), take the hand wringing twenty twenty hindsight and shove it.

Stop bombing middle eastern countries…



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 07:11 AM
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Did any one notice those first cctv video released by the MSM of the explosion on the airport were actually from the 2011 bombing of Moscow?



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: skywatcher44


I mean enhanced clever security, those explosives in bags within the airport should have been picked up.

Look dinkums, I don't care how tight security is, given enough time a way can be found to penetrate it. As an example the tightest security in the world at the time didn't prevent a bomb from getting into Hitler's bunker 'holy of holies', did it.

Did it…

Also remind you that Brussels in particular is already the most secure city, being the head of the EU and headquarters to NATO, heavily armed military police stationed in abundance, and armor cars at every strategic location. You want to prevent this from occurring (you didn't, see?), take the hand wringing twenty twenty hindsight and shove it.

Stop bombing middle eastern countries…

Belgium or Brussels in particular a secure city? You are making me laugh



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: RadioRobert

Please don't misunderstand me. I am NOT advocating giving refugees anything in particular that we would deny our own poor or disenfranchised. I am talking about actually addressing and fixing the problem.

We have done the 1.5 trillion dollar St Vitus dance for 15 years now. The problem with a never ending "War" on "Terror" is the implication that we should all be afraid, forever. That seems like a really lousy deal, to me.

You are one of the most rational and interesting characters I have ever had the pleasure of disagreeing with. I'd love to get your feedback on this:

My plan is to pretend terroristic acts are unworthy of public handwringing or anger. Don't give them the benefit of seeing our President, or our people angry, upset or fearful.

Behind the scenes, take the combined intelligence of the civilized world and track and name these Jihadis, preferably before they do anything like this, like right after they allow themselves to be radicalized. Put them on a "naughty list."

Take the combined budget for fighting terror. For now, lets use my 1.5 trillion number. Divide that in half -- that's our cost savings on this now -- and use 750 billion dollars over 10 years to address the issue. My best research shows that western nations, led by the US have stopped 60 terror plots since 911. But let's build in some efficiency and assume 100 plots in 15 years. Let us further assume that each plot involves at least 10 bad guys. That's 100 actual terrorist masterminds in 15 years.

Now, rather than spend 750 billion to find those guys, and their support personal, and bring them to heel, lets simply publish the naughty list and offer a 30 million dollar lottery bounty on each one of them, quietly, through intelligence and military channels. We can adjust that number up or down based on "contestant" success rates and so on, but that's 3 billion dollars to bring 100 of the worst people the planet has ever produced to heel.

We can use the balance of the 750 billion to provide education and outreach and support to refugees displaced by war, etc, and repatriate the other 750 billion for our own soldiers -- they need medical benefits and jobs -- and homeland infrastructure (roads, bridges, water, power, internet).

Under my plan, we stop the bad guys at a fraction of the cost, dedicate our savings to our own people and infrastructure, and drastically reduce collateral damage (current estimates of "collateral damage in "War on Terror" so far? 4 MILLION people.)

*numbers used for illustration purposes only.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I am fine with screening all male refugees between 15 and 75 "in place" as you suggested.
edit on 24-3-2016 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: intergalactic fire

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: skywatcher44


I mean enhanced clever security, those explosives in bags within the airport should have been picked up.

Look dinkums, I don't care how tight security is, given enough time a way can be found to penetrate it. As an example the tightest security in the world at the time didn't prevent a bomb from getting into Hitler's bunker 'holy of holies', did it.

Did it…

Also remind you that Brussels in particular is already the most secure city, being the head of the EU and headquarters to NATO, heavily armed military police stationed in abundance, and armor cars at every strategic location. You want to prevent this from occurring (you didn't, see?), take the hand wringing twenty twenty hindsight and shove it.

Stop bombing middle eastern countries…

Belgium or Brussels in particular a secure city? You are making me laugh

More secure than Greece, that let all those refugees float ashore.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Better let them drown, close all borders and bomb their homes.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: intrptr

Better let them drown, close all borders and bomb their homes.

We did.

We are.

We will.



posted on Mar, 24 2016 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: skywatcher44


I mean enhanced clever security, those explosives in bags within the airport should have been picked up.

Look dinkums, I don't care how tight security is, given enough time a way can be found to penetrate it. As an example the tightest security in the world at the time didn't prevent a bomb from getting into Hitler's bunker 'holy of holies', did it.

Did it…

Also remind you that Brussels in particular is already the most secure city, being the head of the EU and headquarters to NATO, heavily armed military police stationed in abundance, and armor cars at every strategic location. You want to prevent this from occurring (you didn't, see?), take the hand wringing twenty twenty hindsight and shove it.

Stop bombing middle eastern countries…


Dinkums we have to live in the present and improve our Airports security.. The Brussels Airport was far to open and I think when it reopens on Saturday changes will be made. This incident will be another wakey wakey event that will tighten things up in a better way so we stay safe. They already have better security at most Airports eg Russian, Israeli, Egyptian and many others. You can also shove your condescending Dinkums UYArris.

www.timesofisrael.com...

www.bbc.co.uk...

news.yahoo.com...



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