Brussels Airport Explosions

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Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 6m6 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkish presidency says militant detained by Turkey in June 2015 identified as Ibrahim El Bakraoui, later released by Belgium.

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Amichai Stein ‏@AmichaiStein1 10m10 minutes ago View translation
#BREAKING: Second #Brussels airport suicide bomber identified as Najim Laachraoui - @destandaard reports

a reply to: intrptr
In my earlier post when I surmised TATP, I based that on the large volumes of white smoke and the apparent damage, both of which seemed to suggest a hi-ex of that type. In my mind, the reports of finding TATP in that house search basically fit the observations. It's a popular choice as a home-made explosive with materials that are easy to source and has been used many times before in regions where getting one's hands on military-grade or even pro demolition stuff is a tad more difficult -- or just leaves too much of a trail.

Do we know for sure that it was TATP? No, we don't. But the video evidence immediately after the blasts strongly suggests it could've been.

Anyway, moving along. You mentioned brisance. Now there's a word I haven't seen anyone use in quite a while. Considering what we're discussing, I won't go into reams of detail.

Matyáš and Pachman (in their reference work) consider TATP "highly brisant" as a primary ex. Its brisance (based on send test) is 71% of TNT. Not too huge, but still very scary when we consider these murderers were using several kilos of the stuff each -- assuming they were using TATP.

Other details: most references typically give its detonation velocity (DV) as 5,300 m/sec*** – about 78% of TNT's. It has a lower density than TNT, at 1.18 g/cc vs 1.6 g/cc. R.E. is typically quoted at 0.8.

(*** Mainly for US readers: 5,300 m/second is about 17,300 feet per second (fps) DV. Over 3 miles per second, in other words. By comparison, black powder's DV is about 600 m/sec, or approx 1970 fps.)

A thought about the left-over 15 kg of TATP. Okay, the taxi driver said they didn't have room in the cab to take all their luggage. At least, maybe that's what they told him. On the other hand, perhaps that 15 kg they left behind was originally going to be carried by Saleh Abdeslam. In which case, they could have planned to either use two cabs, or have one or two of them go in a cab and the others by private vehicle.

The point is, I haven't seen any report that the 15kg of left-over material was nicely packed into a suitcase and ready to cart out the door. If it was, then okay, maybe they really did have to leave it behind. Fortunately. However, if it was for Abdeslam and he was (ahem) not able to drop by and pick it up, then that might be even more fortunate. He could have taken out another carriage on a metro train. Or a bus, a cafe, cinema -- or whatever.

a reply to: Xcathdra
In my eyes they are not true Muslims.

Here's a historical parallel: when the IRA/PIRA were going around and setting off car bombs and the like and killing random, innocent people in the UK for about three decades (and not just targeting soldiers or other non-civilians, though they did plenty of that as well), they weren't exactly behaving like good Christians, either. They normally claimed to be Catholics, and justified their murders on the basis of fighting for freedom.

Were they Christians? No, not to me. Because Christians do not go out and murder random, innocent non-combatants.

However, we did not demonize other Christians and Christianity itself because of the actions of those murderers. And that's where I see an issue today. Some people are trying to tar all Muslims and Islam itself with the same brush. That's not only absurd, it's a dangerous line of thinking.

In Indonesia, they have been fighting against a relatively small number of very determined, extreme radical Muslims for years. Ones who commit murder in the name of their own brand of Islam. And Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation in the world, home to more than 200 million of them. They've even had a suicide bomber detonate a bomb inside a Mosque. His target was police who were there for Friday prayers.

That's how crazy this gets. How can any true Muslim commit murder in a mosque? And seeing as there are ones who see that as justifiable, there is really no limit to what some will do.

So, when I see people say that all Muslims support terrorism, extremism, mass murder, etc etc, I wish they'd consider places like Indonesia, where the overwhelming majority of people live peacefully and are probably more disgusted by these "extremists" than we are.

originally posted by: Hellas
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

DiffiCULT to tell who's in what......

a reply to: EA006

DiffiCULT to tell who's in what......

I see what you did there!

Someone wants to play Terror Bingo?

I am sorry thats in german, but hey, there are translators in the web.
What did we have since yesterday:

We need data preservation, check
More powers to the intelligence agencies, check
More powers to the police, check
Terrorists were well known to the intelligence agencies and police, check
"IS" flag found, check
Data protection is terrorist protection, check
Harsher laws, check
More surveillance, check
Terrorists were under observation, check
Data encryption hinders prosecution, check
Terrorists have been on the terrorist list, check
etc

BING, BINGO, BINGO.....

I'm always shocked and saddened to see so many racists here.

originally posted by: Hellas
a reply to: EA006

DiffiCULT to tell who's in what......

I see what you did there!

.......Wonder why that got removed?

Let's play terror bingo instead, that's not thread drift right?

originally posted by: JustMike
a reply to: Xcathdra
In my eyes they are not true Muslims.

Here's a historical parallel: when the IRA/PIRA were going around and setting off car bombs and the like and killing random, innocent people in the UK for about three decades (and not just targeting soldiers or other non-civilians, though they did plenty of that as well), they weren't exactly behaving like good Christians, either. They normally claimed to be Catholics, and justified their murders on the basis of fighting for freedom.

Sorry but you are not correct in this assertion. Membership of the IRA was grounds for excommunication in Ireland for at least 100 years.

IRA members often came from Catholic backgrounds but the organisation has never described itself as being of any kind of religious affiliation. It is a "Republican" paramilitary force.

The other side of what was certainly a sectarian conflict described themselves as "Loyalist" not Protestant.

Both sides often gave the authorities a "five minute" warning to minimise casualties before their bombs were due to detonate.

a reply to: skywatcher44

Well that's interesting.

Shootout Turns Brussels Suburb into Warzone

Two brothers Khalid and Ibrahim El Bakraoui were reportedly detained according to the media when one of the brothers showed up at a hospital with a broken leg. The other brother was found hiding in a house police were searching. The two brothers were known to have links to violent crime in the Brussels area.

Turkey: We deported suspected Brussels bomber

This is getting bizarre now . These brothers have been identified as the suicide bombers who blew themself up at the airport and later in the metro. How and why were these detained terrorist suspects released from the police custody?

Either journalists have gotten names wrong or something stinks here.

a reply to: Gin

Funny that, i was listening to sky news earlier today and the host slipped up with the "EL" part of the name and corrected himself to miss it out......

Well found a Belgian source, these brothers were indeed released from custody.

www.demorgen.be...

Maybe that's why US Intelligence slammed the Belgian Security Forces for this mistake.

Catholics aren't Christian. They are not.

I have just posted this link on another thread but it is of relevance here also..

Belgium is a country known for its beer, chocolate, picturesque towns, art - and grey diplomats heading to the EU. It was even once named among the most boring places on earth. But the north European nation was forced into the international spotlight on Tuesday by devastating terror attacks, later claimed by the Islamic State group. Two explosions at Brussels airport and another at a metro station left at least 31 people dead and 250 wounded. So why has Belgium been targeted and why is it being branded "Europe's jihadi HQ"?

www.bbc.co.uk...( What is it with Belgium and jihadis? )

a reply to: draoicht
No apologies necessary. I am correct in my assertion and your own statement proves it. You cannot excommunicate a person from the Catholic Church unless they are a member of it. Ergo, obviously there were IRA members who were Catholics. The point is made. Catholics (Christians) were involved in the deliberate killing of non-combatants. And yes, so were Loyalists.

Also, I did not state the IRA itself claimed a religious affiliation. I said they (meaning its members) "normally claimed to be Catholics", and "justified their murders on the basis of fighting for freedom". You have even quoted the part of my post where I said that.

People can claim to follow a certain belief, but at the same time commit acts which are in such defiance of the fundamental principles of that belief, that their claims of being followers are hollow.

True Christians (never mind if they are Catholics or Protestants) don't kill people who are non-combatants. No matter what form of "justification" they want to offer, or if they are members of any particular organization. And neither should true Muslims. For true Christians and ditto Muslims, there is no justification for murdering innocent non-combatants.

Do you see what I'm driving at? My post was not about the ins and outs of the IRA, or the Loyalists, or even the whole, sorry and oft-tragic history of the struggle for freedom in Northern Ireland.

I cited the IRA purely as an example. Not because of the organization itself, but because it had members who claimed to be Christians but (in my view and also that of the Catholic Church hierarchy, as you pointed out) were not truly following Christian teachings. Just like these bombers who claim to be Muslims and then go out and murder innocent non-combatants.

That's all.

originally posted by: Moana
I'm always shocked and saddened to see so many racists here.

Criticizing a religion is racist?

originally posted by: Xaphan

originally posted by: Moana
I'm always shocked and saddened to see so many racists here.

Criticizing a religion is racist?

Of course. All Muslims are *insert race here*

And we can just assume that you mean all of them, even if you're criticizing specific actions/ideas held by a minority.

Just admit your nascent racism already!

originally posted by: RadioRobert
Of course. All Muslims are *insert race here*

And we can just assume that you mean all of them, even if you're criticizing specific actions/ideas held by a minority.

Just admit your nascent racism already!

Sounds like a pretty fun SJW party. Will there be popcorn and punch?

originally posted by: Tempter
Catholics aren't Christian. They are not.

Neither was Jesus