Police Officer talks about his experience at Trump's rally in Tucson: AWESOME!

a reply to: Gryphon66

Are you as disgusted as I am? I can barely hold down my breakfast over here. I'll update you in a few minutes on my level of disgust.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

"Damn the facts?" Indeed not. I corrected your supposed "facts" out of the gate regarding immigration. Low hanging fruit.

Again, here's the tactic being deployed repeatedly:

1. Offer a legitimate and general fact (or more often a factoid or some "truthy" bit of information).

2. Make sweeping statements based on that (often faulty) assertion that have no basis.

It's a great debate tactic in general because 1) I have no interest in demonstrating the details of faults in your arguments and 2) your agenda is served either way, as you are well aware that confirmation bias will snatch up your spurious information and discard the reasonable, rational and factual responses to it.

What does immigration of any degree, legitimacy, etc. have to do with Brandon Tatum's testimony?

Like I said I was just dispelling your inaccurate rebuttle, which I have done conclusively
census.org data fully supporting my view. Case closed, except for anyone who wants to distort reality.

The data is there for all to see and bending reality won't help you. Very glad the facts are posted and the sources.

Please don't derail the thread with insults as you did last night - i woke up this morning and had to read through a number of your attacks on people to pick up the thread.

a reply to: ArJunaBug

Same in NC, nice people and peaceful

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

"Damn the facts?" Indeed not. I corrected your supposed "facts" out of the gate regarding immigration. Low hanging fruit.

Again, here's the tactic being deployed repeatedly:

1. Offer a legitimate and general fact (or more often a factoid or some "truthy" bit of information).

2. Make sweeping statements based on that (often faulty) assertion that have no basis.

It's a great debate tactic in general because 1) I have no interest in demonstrating the details of faults in your arguments and 2) your agenda is served either way, as you are well aware that confirmation bias will snatch up your spurious information and discard the reasonable, rational and factual responses to it.

What does immigration of any degree, legitimacy, etc. have to do with Brandon Tatum's testimony?

Umm he amended his original stats with the official Ones from the US census records if im not mistaken So....

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

"Damn the facts?" Indeed not. I corrected your supposed "facts" out of the gate regarding immigration. Low hanging fruit.

Again, here's the tactic being deployed repeatedly:

1. Offer a legitimate and general fact (or more often a factoid or some "truthy" bit of information).

2. Make sweeping statements based on that (often faulty) assertion that have no basis.

It's a great debate tactic in general because 1) I have no interest in demonstrating the details of faults in your arguments and 2) your agenda is served either way, as you are well aware that confirmation bias will snatch up your spurious information and discard the reasonable, rational and factual responses to it.

What does immigration of any degree, legitimacy, etc. have to do with Brandon Tatum's testimony?

Umm he amended his original stats with the official Ones from the US census records if im not mistaken So....

In fact the stats were always from census.org...but used by Center for Immigration Studies (who are apparently right wing?).
I think the only facts that are going to be acceptable are ones that describe the required reality

Facts are facts. The "facts" provided regarding the percentage of immigrants was wrong at the outset, and wouldn't have been "corrected" if not objected to. That is also true of subsequent "facts" presented, however, this is not the forum in which to do so.

This thread is not about immigration (nor about attempts to play the victim and blatant lies about name-calling, etc.)

Here are the facts as I have maintained here, and in other similar discussions:

1. The assertion that there is a unified, organized "leftist" assault on Donald Trump is inaccurate. There are a number of leftist/liberal/progressive/Democratic groups that are opposed to Trump and everything he stands for (misogyny, racism, religious bigotry, empty, vague policy statements) but that does not suggest that, as claimed here regularly, there is a cohesive, unified group opposed to Trump. Trump is obnoxious, and this seems more than enough explaination of why groups are organizing to counter his message.

2. The protesters and dissenters are just as much American citizens as anyone else and have the same rights of speech and assembly as Trump supporters and acolytes. It is a BLATANT LIE to deny that the responsibility for the issues with violence at Trump rallies rests entirely upon Mr. Trump: he is the one that has incited and supported violence against protesters, and it is that violence that has birthed violence in response. Violence, trespass, etc. once again is ethically wrong by my own measure, although I can understand the desire to stand against what Trump represents at any cost.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Facts are facts. The facts provided regarding the percentage of immigrants was wrong at the outset, and wouldn't have been "corrected" if not objected to.

This thread is not about immigration (nor about attempts to play the victim and blatant lies about name-calling, etc.)

Here are the facts as I have maintained here, and in other similar discussions:

1. The assertion that there is a unified, organized "leftist" assault on Donald Trump is inaccurate. There are a number of leftist/liberal/progressive/Democratic groups that are opposed to Trump and everything he stands for (misogyny, racism, religious bigotry, empty, vague policy statements) but that does not suggest that, as claimed here regularly, there is a cohesive, unified group opposed to Trump. Trump is obnoxious, and this seems more than enough explaination of why groups are organizing to counter his message.

2. The protesters and dissenters are just as much American citizens as anyone else and have the same rights of speech and assembly as Trump supporters and acolytes. It is a BLATANT LIE to deny that the responsibility for the issues with violence at Trump rallies rests entirely upon Mr. Trump: he is the one that has incited and supported violence against protesters, and it is that violence that has birthed violence in response. Violence, trespass, etc. once again is ethically wrong by my own measure, although I can understand the desire to stand against what Trump represents at any cost.

You can't win every debate - the trick is not to make yourself look silly when you lose one by clinging on too long. You are way past that point now and it's getting very boring. Seriously, just You have already derailed this thread enough with insults.

The gentleman in the video is telling you that the protesters were the agitators and the initiators of violence. You have missed the point of what he actually said.

Now you are saying Trump is entirely to blame when the guy who was there tells you differently. He says the protesters were entirely to blame. What makes you think this eye witness is a blatant liar?

Your extremism in attacking Trump is getting embarrassing - not for him, but for you.

a reply to: UKTruth

UKTruth, lay off the comments about me, and your estimation of me, and stick to the topic and facts about the topic.

I haven't insulted you or anyone else. If you feel that I have, report it, and stop distracting from the thread.

Officer Tatum does indeed give his perception of what happened as an eyewitness. He would be the first to tell you I'm sure, based on his law enforcement experience, how faulty "eye witnesses" can sometimes be. You fail to quote my arguments and merely restate them to suit for obvious reasons ... the argument you make is fallacious.

Stick to the facts, for the record, as previously noted, I have zero interest in what you think about me or my posting style, so please drop it. Spare us all. Play the ball.

I am not the ball.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

UKTruth, lay off the comments about me, and your estimation of me, and stick to the topic and facts about the topic.

I haven't insulted you or anyone else. If you feel that I have, report it, and stop distracting from the thread.

Officer Tatum does indeed give his perception of what happened as an eyewitness. He would be the first to tell you I'm sure, based on his law enforcement experience, how faulty "eye witnesses" can sometimes be. You fail to quote my arguments and merely restate them to suit for obvious reasons ... the argument you make is fallacious.

Stick to the facts, for the record, as previously noted, I have zero interest in what you think about me or my posting style, so please drop it. Spare us all. Play the ball.

I am not the ball.

You have stated that Trump is entirely to blame for the violence in complete contrast to what the eye witness, a police officer, has said on video and posted to the world. Not only that you are accusing everyone who disagrees with that view of blatantly lying (your words)

Your argument is now that this 180 degree shift from what he was saying is explained by the fact that 'sometimes' eye witness statements can be faulty. Is that it? really? Is there anything else that has led to your conclusion that completely takes the opposite view of someone who was there and at the same time calling them a blatant liar?

a reply to: UKTruth

Quote what I said about Trumps responsibility.

That is unless your rephrase of what I actually said serves your argument better.

Let's start there.

a reply to: UKTruth

The police officer identified that the Soro's backed group of BLM was the main protestors, but if you look close you see OWS protesters too.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Quote what I said about Trumps responsibility.

That is unless your rephrase of what I actually said serves your argument better.

Let's start there.

You said:

It is a BLATANT LIE to deny that the responsibility for the issues with violence at Trump rallies rests entirely upon Mr. Trump

No?... It's already in your post and in the response to it.
Is this not saying that It is a BLATANT LIE to deny that the responsibility for the issues with violence at Trump rallies rests entirely upon Mr. Trump

I was going to summarise but your statement is so clear it doesn't really need it.

The guy in the video is NOT saying that it is entirely Trumps fault - in fact he is saying it is the protesters fault. So is he not blatantly lying then under your statement above???

It looks like a pair of Soros backed posters just have to highjack the thread again.

Its absurd. They try to set the narrative that is void of all the known facts.

Every election cycle they come to bark up this tree with Facebook level BS.

There is NO evidence Trump supporters are overall violent.

There is TONS of evidence that the protesters are actively trying to hurt our fellow Americans.

FOR MONEY.

They try to start violent outbursts FOR MONEY that originates through people like George Soros.

Sick

a reply to: UKTruth

Is Mr. Trump in charge at his events? Yes he is and he has made this perfectly clear.

Has Mr. Trump repeatedly and with forethought instructed followers at his rallies to kick, punch and send protesters out on stretchers? Yes he has and to deny this fact is a BLATANT lie.

Was there any wide scale violence at Trump events before he made these pronouncements and issued these directives from the podium? Not even one.

Those are the facts. You are trying to directly connect what I said about Officer Tatum to what I stats about Mr. Trump and that is false and out of context. My statements about what Officer Tatum says in the op are clear and concise.

double

originally posted by: tadaman
It looks like a pair of Soros backed posters just have to highjack the thread again.

Its absurd. They try to set the narrative that is void of all the known facts.

Every election cycle they come to bark up this tree with Facebook level BS.

There is NO evidence Trump supporters are overall violent.

There is TONS of evidence that the protesters are actively trying to hurt our fellow Americans.

FOR MONEY.

They try to start violent outbursts FOR MONEY that originates through people like George Soros.

Sick

Just to be clear are you accusing me of working for George Soros for money?

a reply to: tadaman

The Berniebots will always brigade these threads no matter what the information being displayed and will often parrot the few incidents the MSM plays at nauseum and convince themselves that it's the end-all-be-all of Trump and all of his supporters.

At least I can respect Sanders for getting as far as he did despite being the major underdog, another example of the people giving a huge middle finger to the political establishment. But it's actually the portion of his supporters that consist of biased radical lefties that are destroying his platform and opening the way for Hiliary.

Since the "protest" in Chicago the other week Bernies numbers have stalled, even on Reddit his channel /r/SandersForPresident went from 2nd most popular to 21st in the matter of a week.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Is Mr. Trump in charge at his events? Yes he is and he has made this perfectly clear.

Has Mr. Trump repeatedly and with forethought instructed followers at his rallies to kick, punch and send protesters out on stretchers? Yes he has and to deny this fact is a BLATANT lie.

Was there any wide scale violence at Trump events before he made these pronouncements and issued these directives from the podium? Not even one.

Those are the facts. You are trying to directly connect what I said about Officer Tatum to what I stats about Mr. Trump and that is false and out of context. My statements about what Officer Tatum says in the op are clear and concise.

Trump is not in charge of the police at his events.
He is also not in control of other peoples actions.

He has said a few times that protesters should be punched. He claims that is in response to violence initiated.

I have also heard him say repeatedly not to harm people who are not violent. This is also the instruction given to people who attend his rallies - as the officer in the video told you clearly if you actually watched it.

Can you provide evidence that Trump started using language like 'I'd like to punch him' PRIOR to any protester getting violent at his rallies? I would like to see proof of that please.

Just wanted to fill in those extra facts and correct your mistaken facts.

Now, I want an answer on my question.

What makes Trump entirely responsible for all violence at his events and why is the gentleman in the video a blatant liar (along with anyone else who disagrees with you)?

So far you have provided two things:

1) sometimes eye witnesses get it wrong
2) Trump has said he'd like to punch someone being violent at his rally. By the way the actual count of these statements at rallies is less than times he has said not to harm a protester (depends on the protester and what they are doing according to trump, but you are going to provide evidence this is not the case)

Is there anything else that makes Trump entirely responsible for other peoples violence and makes anyone who questions your version of events (which you have not even witnessed first hand) a blatant liar?

I want to get all your reasons clear, because you ave made a sweeping statement that you must surely have much more evidence to support....

a reply to: Konduit

The protesters wore Bernie shirts to discredit him and make Trump supporters go after Bernie

Two birds with one group of useful idiots.

They were Hillary supporters.

Bernie is not clear and safe though, since he wants to spend under the same model that rakes up debt and makes the Federal reserve relevant /necessary.

In the end, Trump is the only one that makes sense for allot of reasons. THIS is where we are at. Surreal.

originally posted by: ReadLeader
a reply to: awareness10

Well there we have it. A black off duty police officer. This is a very good voice of reason. He mentioned multiple times, that the media is responsible for some of the violence and the protesters are the o es being violent. N O T the Trump followers! He states that half the people acting outrageous were African American !!!!-

Applause S&F, great find Aware!!!!

well then, obviously it's the democrats fault...trump and his supporters are totally innocent...got it....