Owner of 'Pay to Pray' Website Ordered to Return $7.8M to Consumers

a reply to: ReadLeader



Unfortunately, ReadLeader....I'm not certain you're going to like what I have to say to this. But...


This person was offering a service. Prayer is a nebulous thing. It could be a meticulously performed lengthy ceremony, it could be a brief moment of closing ones eyes and wishing good thoughts.

Ultimately, there is no tangible "proof" as to whether or not the prayer was performed.

I could look you in the eyes...tell you that in my heart I am praying for you..but be thinking about the last girl that I did rather carnal things to.

Was the letter of the delivered service spelled out? Can it honestly be proven that the services were performed as anticipated?

The users were "confused" into recurring charges? Do they not read? They certainly did enough reading so as to know to enter their credit card information. Caveat Emptor.

Honestly...if "confusing" is now a legal precedence....then we need to take on a class action suit against 99.999999999999999% of the software companies out there who go out of their way to write overly verbose EULA's.


I truly see this as nothing different than a modern day practice of selling Indulgences.


And as a final parting thought.... Didn't P.T. Barnum have something to say that is oddly applicable here?

a reply to: nullafides

I wish I could get back all the money I've been foolishly duped into also........

Hell, the bar keeps telling me what they are selling me will make me feel good when all it does is make me feel crappy in the morning.

I should be able to sue for my money back over these years.......

a reply to: ReadLeader

How about that "prayer water" they sell? Amazing how people will fall for anything....

One of these guys was picked up by his earpiece receiving info on audience member..."I feel someone here has a bad pain in their right leg"....

It was taken from those cards for prayer requests at the doors coming in...and the crowd thought he was being divinely told by God.....

Shame.....

a reply to: nullafides

Nope Null, it's all good. I welcome the feedback from others and appreciate participation in my threads.

He did offer a service, but what got his goat was the continued credit card popping. MAYBE had he charged per prayer, he would still be in business; )

And no, people don't read the fine print or TOA, as often as they should.

I do agree, . Prayer is a nebulous thing.

Thanks for posting

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
I read that. Thanks for not answering the question.

He did nothing that a lot of websites do.

Is it his fault nobody was smart enough to read the T&C's?

Would it be ATS's fault if I didn't read the T&C's in it's entirety?

As much as I don't like organized religion I think this sets a bad precedent.

T&C's are not as iron clad as you believe them to be. The courts generally take the idea that T&C's are common sense stuff and anything too demanding on the customer can be thrown out. It helps matters that not only does everyone know that no one reads them, but that most companies don't even read their own T&C's. It's like Apple claiming to have your power of attorney by you agreeing to their T&C. It's simply not enforceable.

This is nothing compared to this guy featured on a major Blog, The Daily beast

JUST IN TIME FOR EASTER

He’ll Raise You From the Dead for $1,000

This self-proclaimed prophet says he can perform the miracle of all miracles—if you’re willing to part with a cool grand.

Yakim Manasseh Jordan can predict the future, heal the sick, and for the low price of $1,000, the 25-year-old can even raise the dead. But the self-proclaimed prophet of God is not above cold calling. “The Lord began to speak to me and he showed me major losses that you have experienced within the last two to five years,” the 25-year old Brooklyn native’s breathy, warbly, slightly British-inflected message starts. But, he goes on, there is “a miracle favor cloud,” “a prosperity blessing,” and a “financial blessing,” coming your way, and to a loved one, as well.

www.thedailybeast.com...

There are Christian churches that offer prayer for free, you can call up a number and speak to someone and they will pray with you over the phone... FOR FREE.

This scam puts a bad light on Christians who really will pray for others.

I have been to a church that is not Christian and their spiel about tithing was a song about what you give to them will multiply back to you tenfold. I was having to take a wheelchair bound woman to this ''church'' because that was where she chose to attend and a man weirdly rubbed her shoulder in a creepy way. We complained to this place about the man. The next week he was honored for something. I stopped taking the disabled woman there.

My older friend found some supposed Holy people that can have your prayers answered by some mystical people high in a mountain or some such, for a fee by these mystical people who were not Christian. She sent a chunk of money to them and her prayer was not answered.

Scammers come in all denominations and religious affiliations.

a reply to: ReadLeader

Sick. WTF. There is nothing different from the con the others do. They just dont ask for set amounts....well, yes..... some do. Some make you pay half for pay. Others varry.

They are all the same con.

End religion.

a reply to: pteridine

My guess is he didn't pay proper taxes on true earnings and the state got huffy. While I find this vile and thuggerish, I also don't see the difference between this guy and the donation or tithe to churches.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich
What's the difference from going to a brick and mortar church and putting money in the collection plate?

Religion as a whole is "systematic deception" and has always been a for profit venture for those brazen enough to capitalize on it.

My thinking exactly. This guy has nothing on tele-preachers and churches.

Like Jan Crouch of The Trinity Broadcasting Network

Private jets, 13 mansions and a $100,000 mobile home just for the dogs: Televangelists 'defrauded tens of million of dollars from Christian network'

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... hristian-network.html#ixzz43UPghpBs
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Here is Jan Crouch on TBN saying to give god your grocery money you set aside

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: pteridine

My guess is he didn't pay proper taxes on true earnings and the state got huffy. While I find this vile and thuggerish, I also don't see the difference between this guy and the donation or tithe to churches.

The televangelists have physical churches and hold religious services in which they ask for DONATIONS. That is part of religious freedom; see first amendment to the Constitution. The prayer service was a business that charged for prayers and was not protected as a religion.

a reply to: pteridine

So basically State acceptable religion vs. Non-State acceptable?

I thought the State shall make no law respecting the establishment of one religion over another?

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: pteridine

So basically State acceptable religion vs. Non-State acceptable?

I thought the State shall make no law respecting the establishment of one religion over another?

No, basically a religion vs. a non-religion. Prayer services for a fixed fee are not a religion; they are a business. If the scammer had read the fine print, he would have come up with a church, church services of some sort, and then asked for donations and claimed a religion. If he says I'm selling Holy Shoe polish for $10 and I also tricked you into monthly shoe polish payments, that is not a religion but a business and is held to legal standards for businesses. I am not advocating televangelists; as far as I am concerned they are all thieves preying on the desperate and those that feel unloved. Unfortunately, what they do is legal.
The " State shall make no law respecting the establishment of one religion over another" bit is more about the establishment of a state religion. The Founders were generally English and did not want a state religion, or a Regent for that matter.