Remember when Political debates Were like This:

Remember when Political debates Were like This:

Yes children , once upon a time before the dark ages we used to have political debates on issues from immigration to taxation that went like this, even the Republicans had class and conducted themselves with grace , I may not have liked most their policies but they were not unbecoming, but then something happened a crassness crept in from the gutter and infected our body politic, the above is a reminder that things were not always thus.

a reply to: Spider879

Spidy, Damn good post! I Was here in the 80's, and I remember that.... this was true politrix....

Great thread!

Ahh yes the gool ol' days



and now we get the midnight-rerun-Jerry Springer-quality candidates...

The problem is that we've gone from Lone Ranger to Star Trek to Full House to Jersey Shore. It's a downward spiral of sick controversy instead of substance. Heck, I believe even the NFL is starting to look like a reality show.

a reply to: Spider879

Both of them would get booed off the stage in a Republican debate now. I found it ironic that Reagan even refuted the idea of a fence w/Mexico, and called for an open border instead.

originally posted by: misterhistory
The problem is that we've gone from Lone Ranger to Star Trek to Full House to Jersey Shore. It's a downward spiral of sick controversy instead of substance. Heck, I believe even the NFL is starting to look like a reality show.

Yes culture in general has gotten worst, now we are at a point where a man running for the office of POTUS have the language skills of an eight grader, and something must be said about being P.C without going crazy overboard where one cannot call a spade a spade.

I was not born at the time, the first republican I knew said:



He was cool, crazy ninja skills when he dodge those shoes

Also I remember his old man throwing up on some Japanese guy? Good old republican days


Honestly I like bush and still think in the future history will be kind with him

What's really interesting is that they're talking about the exact same issues we're talking about now. You could take the sound clips and overdub them onto a debate from a couple weeks ago and few people would be able to tell the difference (well, aside from the penis comments).

Nothing has changed. Nothing has been fixed.

And people wonder why everyone is so pissed off they're ready to vote for a hairpiece stuffed in a suit.

originally posted by: NthOther
What's really interesting is that they're talking about the exact same issues we're talking about now. You could take the sound clips and overdub them onto a debate from a couple weeks ago and few people would be able to tell the difference.

Nothing has changed. Nothing has been fixed.

And people wonder why everyone is so pissed off they're ready to vote for a hairpiece stuffed in a suit.

Are you kidding?!

What both Bush and Regan said would have immediately disqualified them, dashing any hopes of becoming POTUS today. No Republican today would get elected saying the things saw in that video clip from back then.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'm more or less for what both proposed there. Aside from the bouts of amnesty we've tried, nothing has really actually been done in regards to immigration. They both expressed ideas that might be tried, but which really haven't been enacted or attempted.

Twenty-six years later, we still have millions of people here undocumented who are not paying taxes yet still receiving services because we haven't actually fixed anything.

That's why I'm okay with a fence. It's an elegant (though certainly not ideal) solution when nothing else seems politically doable. It also doesn't prevent fixing the system. It doesn't matter how big the fence is if we've actually fixed the other issues, people would be free to legally move back and forth at checkpoints.

Notice that they were both saying the same thing.

The Establishment was strong with both of them.

Reagan got his way when elected, and we got amnesty-for-all: 12 million became legal. But twice that many never even bothered with paperwork. They could care less about complying with the law. Actually they COULD have cared less; they would have had to pay income and SS tax. The whole point of being in America was earning big dollares without paying any tax at all.

It was a huge blight on the economy of the border states, from which they are still reeling. It ruined public education from Texas to California, to introduce 4 million kids with no English directly into the system, then expect 'equal outcomes' on a par with children who'd grown up speaking English.

But big business sure loved it: kept the southern-states union free and with a large pool of manual labor.

Nope, Bush and Reagan had nothing to argue about. Nothing at all. Except maybe who got to sleep in the White house first.

a reply to: RadioRobert

How in the hell is a huge wall "elegant"?

I love how Regan is a hero when needed, and then suddenly "establishment" when convenient.

Make up your minds -- either the man was a conservative hero or he wasn't.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Fancy chandeliers every couple of meters

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Fancy chandeliers every couple of meters

Like the "Hall of Mirrors" at the Palace of Versailles?



It's quite impressive if you ever get the chance to visit it in France. Upon visiting myself, I understood why the French peasantry rose up and revolted. While the French aristocracy lived in places like that, the common folk lived in mud and straw huts with dirt floors.

I remember muttering "let them eat cake" to myself as I gazed at the above hallway.

"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken by "a great princess" upon learning that the peasants had no bread. Since brioche was a luxury bread enriched with butter and eggs, the quote would reflect the princess's disregard for the peasants, or at least a complete lack of understanding that the absence of basic food staples was due to poverty rather than a lack of supply.

Wikipedia

If we're not careful -- we'll all be living in hovels and our leaders in places such as the above.

a reply to: Indigent

I was thinking simple candelabras and concertina wire on account of my fiscally conservative side, but the chandelier thing has some merit...



MM a wall is something tangible that could actually be accomplished without 26 years of debating the minutia thereof. By comparison, it is relatively simple and quick thing to build a wall. Even one with fancy chandeliers.

a reply to: RadioRobert

And a tunnel is also something easy to produce. So are catapults and parachutes. How about boats leaving Mexico and landing off the coast of California or Texas.

A wall will solve NOTHING. It's purely a macho symbol, not unlike the guy with the huge lifted truck who's really a big wimp.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

It takes a lot more effort to dig a tunnel, build human catapults(?), or traverse by boats then it does to walk across 2000 miles of an open border. A wall is never going to completely stop border crossings. But I don't know why completely stopping border crossings would be considered the only successful outcome *shrug*


I think granting citizenship to anyone who crosses the border under any circumstances for any reason will solve nothing. See how easy it is to minimize a disagreeable idea by completely reframing it?

a reply to: RadioRobert

Seriously? Dude, there are already a ton of tunnels between the US and Mexico. Drug cartels control them, and will probably stop moving drugs and start moving people if we get this moronic wall built.

We're just going to end up trading one problem for another because we aren't addressing the underlying issue.

And in any case, more Mexicans are leaving the USA these days than entering. The entire illegal immigrant boogyman isn't a growing and spreading phenomenon.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Yeah, human catapults might be "out there" but we have Haitians floating on inter tubes for days to get to Florida. Don't underestimate someone's resolve when they want something.

I dunno though, have you seen those bungie cord rides at the fair? They might be able to re-purpose them to get people over a wall: