Unedited footage of the bombing of Nagasaki

originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: 3danimator2014

70K largely innocent people dead due to actions of their gov and our gov. One has to wonder how anyone can walk away from this action and be proud of who they are.

Those 70k people saved millions. And at the end of a brutal 4-5 years war, and facing casualty figures that would dwarf them (mainland invasion), micro ethics is gonna give way to macro ethics (is it better to let one innocent person live at the cost of 4 others, or should you just kill them, and yes,I made those terms up)

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Bedlam

Oh go on ,TELL the people about that blast.

?? I don't understand what you are getting at? (I know your comment wasn't directed at me, but i dont get it.)

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Bedlam

Oh go on ,TELL the people about that blast.

You shouldn't put all your development in one place and talk so much smack.

At least not with Bush at the wheel.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Bedlam

Oh go on ,TELL the people about that blast.

?? I don't understand what you are getting at? (I know your comment wasn't directed at me, but i dont get it.)

Um, it's a long story. We basically handed the Norks their ass in 2004 with something magical.

a reply to: Bedlam

China was FAR better.
I'm waiting for something like the orbitals on "Akira"...

a reply to: 3danimator2014

even with being armed, simply dropping it is not going to set it off. There are a specific series of events that must occur to produce a detonation.

In fact just dropping it wouldn't likely result in an explosion. Now...a drop WOULD result in a bomb that likely doens't work anymore. People think that inside something like a W78 or W87 are these insanely futuristic parts. They aren't. There is a poopload of wrapped cables, lockwire and tubes that were all (other than the lockwire) produced in the 60's and 70's. At one point, the USAF spent millions trying to develop a digital counterpart Reentry Systems Test Set to replace the tube driven Blue Beast and it failed.

A story I always loved to tell is when I was working Mk12a with the W78, our RSTS went down (the cable/warhead test set) because of a piece that gave out. No biggie I thought, I'll go to my shelves.

Nothing

No biggie I'll just call depot...nothing

-begin to perspire-

We spent two weeks searching for this replacement part and we found it...the last one remaining was laid out in an exhibit in the nuclear museum. So we took their working part and gave them our trashed one for the exhibit. It didn't look any different because the internal damage could not be seen without taking it apart...but still

a year later I discharged to reserve duty for two years of cooking and it hit me..."wow we dodged a bullet there....but what if THAT one breaks?

sorry for the side story...my original point was dropping a warhead will not cause detonation or explosion....or at least the chances are insanely thin

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
WHy would they still drop them if the emperor had agreed to the allies demands for unconditional surrender? I dont believe they were THAT vile that they would drop them anyway. Maybe im being naive?

It wasn't clear if the offer was genuine, or whether the military (which really ruled the Emperor) would agree.

One explanation I heard from a historian was that the A-bombs permitted the Japanese military authority to "save face" (as much as possible). If they had just lost, because of losing in the ordinary way in war (the enemy defeats and conquers your forces), surrender would have been impossible. A US, and even worse, a Soviet invasion of Japan would have been the most extreme and vilest atrocity since the times of Genggis Khan. The A-bombs permitted the explanation that they were surprised by unexpected technical developments.

a reply to: mbkennel

Ever read enders game? You know the part where ender keeps kicking the bully once he's down. I always likened the dropping of the H bombs to that same psychological strategy of breaking the enemies will to fight you... forever.

Think japans ever going to try bombing a US asset ever again? I don't.

originally posted by: mbkennel

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
WHy would they still drop them if the emperor had agreed to the allies demands for unconditional surrender? I dont believe they were THAT vile that they would drop them anyway. Maybe im being naive?

It wasn't clear if the offer was genuine, or whether the military (which really ruled the Emperor) would agree.

One explanation I heard from a historian was that the A-bombs permitted the Japanese military authority to "save face" (as much as possible). If they had just lost, because of losing in the ordinary way in war (the enemy defeats and conquers your forces), surrender would have been impossible. A US, and even worse, a Soviet invasion of Japan would have been the most extreme and vilest atrocity since the times of Genggis Khan. The A-bombs permitted the explanation that they were surprised by unexpected technical developments.

I had the saving face thing too. And I agree with it. As for a Russian invasion of Japan...shudder. what they did in Berlin was bad enough.

So with the help of scientist Nazi scum you in the US got your nuclear bomb. Decided to drop it not once but twice on humanity and today you are taking proud in it?? Have you people ever asked your self why is our world so corrupt today. Hey do you got a mirror??....u f...s...

originally posted by: Bojay
So with the help of scientist Nazi scum

Exactly which Nazi's are you on about?

Decided to drop it not once but twice on humanity and today you are taking proud in it??

It was a very good decision that saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Have you people ever asked your self why is our world so corrupt today.

Yes, because people support Japan's aggression, and the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere

originally posted by: Bojay
So with the help of scientist Nazi scum you in the US got your nuclear bomb. Decided to drop it not once but twice on humanity and today you are taking proud in it?? Have you people ever asked your self why is our world so corrupt today. Hey do you got a mirror??....u f...s...

No one is proud of it. But is it not better than million of dead and countless women and girls raped?


Just like everything in the world, no point thinking hysterically about it. Bad things happen sometimes and its possible that some good comes out of those bad things.

originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: 3danimator2014

70K largely innocent people dead due to actions of their gov and our gov. One has to wonder how anyone can walk away from this action and be proud of who they are.

Perhaps some of those 'innocent' people worked in the war industries, perhaps that soldier burnt into those steps took part in the rape of Nanking? Typing of innocent people, what about those peopled killed in the rape of Nanking by the japanes army???
mmmm??

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Bojay
So with the help of scientist Nazi scum you in the US got your nuclear bomb. Decided to drop it not once but twice on humanity and today you are taking proud in it?? Have you people ever asked your self why is our world so corrupt today. Hey do you got a mirror??....u f...s...

No one is proud of it. But is it not better than million of dead and countless women and girls raped?


Just like everything in the world, no point thinking hysterically about it. Bad things happen sometimes and its possible that some good comes out of those bad things.

The nazi scum were rocket scientists, not nuclear, the German 'bomb' was ten years away minimum.

originally posted by: pikestaff

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Bojay
So with the help of scientist Nazi scum you in the US got your nuclear bomb. Decided to drop it not once but twice on humanity and today you are taking proud in it?? Have you people ever asked your self why is our world so corrupt today. Hey do you got a mirror??....u f...s...

No one is proud of it. But is it not better than million of dead and countless women and girls raped?


Just like everything in the world, no point thinking hysterically about it. Bad things happen sometimes and its possible that some good comes out of those bad things.

The nazi scum were rocket scientists, not nuclear, the German 'bomb' was ten years away minimum.

Sorry if i'm being stupid, but i don't understand what point you are trying to make? That we shouldn't have dropped the bombs?

a reply to: Bedlam

the norks seem like they could use some light therapy to brighten up their disposition. any chance?

originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: 3danimator2014

70K largely innocent people dead due to actions of their gov and our gov. One has to wonder how anyone can walk away from this action and be proud of who they are.

they were following orders just like anyone else during the wars.

a reply to: Bojay

Not one of those scientists working on the Manhattan Project were Nazi's. Before casting such aspersions you might want to check it out a bit further.

In fact, many of them, including Einstein, were refugees fleeing Nazi Germany.

If you're referencing Operation Paperclip in the aftermath of WWII? Then you're on the right track. That was a sordid bit of skulduggery that should never have happened.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

They did invade Japan. They occupied some of the Northern islands of Japan proper.

such a terrible event in human history. if you stop and consider what was done, any person with a shred of humanity in them should get choked up at the terrible loss.

Doesn't mean it didn't need to happen though.

I guess the only solice that can come from it, outside of it actually saving japanese lives with a sharp end to the war for them without any further casualities and their honor preventing them from admitting defeat without massive force overcoming them is that in that one hit, they went from a warrior nation that was becoming a identity of fighting and expansion and refocused them into being peaceful creators.

Still, I consider the simple civilians who died that day and how their focus was on working, being a good family member, creating art and culture, and simply wanting to enjoy the day to day..all their contributions wiped out.

I hope that is the last event of that magnitude ever to curse humanity...lets hope we all retain the knowledge gained from this..hmm...sacrifice.