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Iain Duncan Smith resigns!!

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posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: grainofsand
Being from Chatham I know a few single mums that game the system by breeding.

And yes there are a look of welfare gamers round here in the pub.

There needs to be a serious look at able bodied welfare and our attitudes toward working.

Personally I would up JSA allowance slightly but only allow it for 3 months (6 in time of economic recession). After that its CUT, gone. poof.

I would set up government funded bunk houses that provide very basic shelter and food for those who are homeless, that will give them a address and communal access to internet so they can look for work plus possible councillors.

And I would cut child tax credits. But not for current family’s. Only for children born after 2018. If you want kids PLAN FOR THEM. If you can’t afford to raise Children DON’T HAVE THEM.

We find much in agreement then




posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: woodwardjnr
No matter what section of society, everyone is guilty of scamming the system from benefit claimants to MPs and expenses, to the royal family using chinooks as taxis to corporations dodging tax. So let's stop highlighting the most vulnerable and causing resentment between different sections of the poor.

What? Can we not point out the scams that we see now?
I'm sure you know as well as I do that lazy bastards scam the system similar to clever accounting bastards who legally avoid tax. I'm one of them for the record.
Plenty of lazy bastards in the UK genuinely don't want a job so long as they can scam the system, I personally know loads, but as I said earlier, I'm not grassing anyone up anytime soon.
Denying they exist though is naive at best and dishonest at worst.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: grainofsand
Being from Chatham I know a few single mums that game the system by breeding.

And yes there are a look of welfare gamers round here in the pub.

There needs to be a serious look at able bodied welfare and our attitudes toward working.

Personally I would up JSA allowance slightly but only allow it for 3 months (6 in time of economic recession). After that its CUT, gone. poof.

I would set up government funded bunk houses that provide very basic shelter and food for those who are homeless, that will give them a address and communal access to internet so they can look for work plus possible councillors.

And I would cut child tax credits. But not for current family’s. Only for children born after 2018. If you want kids PLAN FOR THEM. If you can’t afford to raise Children DON’T HAVE THEM.


I am not sure I could agree with scrapping child tax credits.

Child tax credits bridge the gap between the legal minimum and living wage.

We will always need low paid workers to perform all those pesky tasks you deem beneath you yet still need performed to enjoy an entitled and affordable lifestyle.

By removing this benefit you are almost creating a financially created form of eugenics by effectively living in a society where the low paid workers are unable to procreate.

That does not sit well with me.

I suppose we could always increase the minimum wage so even the lowest paid full time workers could afford the privilege of raising children but that would mean that everything became more expensive to cover the compound wage increases and you may wish that those sponging tax credits where still available.

Interesting idea though.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I thought you were self employed same as me, you know, self assessment every April?
People should pay their way in my opinion...why should the state be subsidising their jobs?

*Edit*
Shouldn't #ing have kids if you can't afford them.
It is why I only had one.


edit on 20.3.2016 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

I thought you were self employed same as me, you know, self assessment every April?
People should pay their way in my opinion...why should the state be subsidising their jobs?



I am not saying it should, it is in my opinion a flaw in the system and one that can be easily argued but by removing child tax credits you would have to either create financial eugenics, increased child poverty or raise the minimum wage to a level that anyone can afford to have kids.

I do not want to live in a world where a barman is on £14 per hour and as a result a pint will cost me £8 to pay for his wages.

Subsidising low paid workers though keeps things affordable to the nation as a whole and as ugly as it sounds I would rather the government paid it to low paid workers to raise there snotty nosed kids than use those funds to bomb people I have never met and have no issue with.

I never said I expected my opinion to be popular but it is my opinion non the less.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I've got time for your opinion, just what the # do we do about women who pop kids out solely so they don't have to sign-on (seek work) every fortnight when their youngest reaches school age?
I know loads of women who have done just that, it is not unique to my region.
lazy bitches, rather sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle than working to pay for their kids.
As I said, I don't really give a # when compared to corporate tax evasion, but # me, all the apologists who deny it happens are deluded, and/or just leftist Labour/SNP voters with horse blinkers on lol



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

I've got time for your opinion, just what the # do we do about women who pop kids out solely so they don't have to sign-on (seek work) every fortnight when their youngest reaches school age?
I know loads of women who have done just that, it is not unique to my region.
lazy bitches, rather sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle than working to pay for their kids.
As I said, I don't really give a # when compared to corporate tax evasion, but # me, all the apologists who deny it happens are deluded, and/or just leftist Labour/SNP voters with horse blinkers on lol


Any society will always have usless leeches and I agree that this is not right but to call for child tax credits to be abolished as someone did earlier is in my opinion narrow minded.

Maybe it is my social circle but far more hard working people have a productive and hardworking life and recieve tax credits to boost their appallingly inadequate wages than sit round with half a dozen poorly raised kids playing stupid games on facebook.

Maybe it is my blinkers?




posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Could be the blinkers?
When I started years ago in the then Dept of Health & Social Security the age limit of the youngest child was 16 before the single parent had to look for work. It was a running office joke when women became pregnant again before the youngest turned 16. The age was reduced to 7 and the women adapted accordingly lol.
It was then dropped to school age and single parents suddenly started popping kids out when the youngest became 5, policy groups knew it full well because the stats don't lie.

Lazy bastards milking the system, same with JSA and nobody actually 'lives together' anymore. Less money as a couple, more as a single claimant.
If anyone doesn't believe that then they definitely have the liberal blinkers on.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I am aware that it happens and I agree with the fact that it is not right.

I do however become worried when I see people starting to talk about JSA for three months and then nothing. I know that was not you but that sounds scary to me as it sounds great until unemployment hits and those that demanded it realise that they are now in need of it.

Try finding a job in the north of Nottinghamshire when the pits closed down back in the day.

See how long 3 months is when a big company like Honda shuts down like it did in Swindon a few years ago when the crash occurred.

Unemployment went up by about 300% in about a fortnight and the job centre had to stop meeting people and went onto postal signings.

Some people need to be careful what they ask for because that privileged life they lead can be snatched away from them in a second and they may live to rue the day they complained about these so called "benefits" that are for many people a safety net in an unpredictable world.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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I agree nonspecific, if we go down that road then kids become a privilege that only the well off can afford because at the bottom end wages are low and living costs are high. And we can't forget that sh*t happens, people have kids planned and unplanned, families break up, people get sick. Life has a way of ignoring your best laid plans.

Of course you're always going to get folk who take advantage but that doesn't justify cutting off help and punishing everyone. Perhaps we should be looking at other ways to tackle that issue and it's probably wise to be looking at the causes.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

a reply to: Scouse100

Agreed to both of you, but the lazy bitches pumping out kids just so they are not required to sign on is a very real abuse of the welfare system on a massive scale. As I said, all policy groups know about it full well, it is why the age limit of the youngest child has been amended so many times over the years, from 16 to 5 as it is now.

I imagine you think the issue should be disregarded, seeing as I'm the only prick who is calling the lazy bastards out for what they are.

...of course corporate tax fraud deprives the public purse of much more...I'm against that as well for the record, before you call that argument.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: Scouse100
I agree nonspecific, if we go down that road then kids become a privilege that only the well off can afford because at the bottom end wages are low and living costs are high. And we can't forget that sh*t happens, people have kids planned and unplanned, families break up, people get sick. Life has a way of ignoring your best laid plans.

Of course you're always going to get folk who take advantage but that doesn't justify cutting off help and punishing everyone. Perhaps we should be looking at other ways to tackle that issue and it's probably wise to be looking at the causes.


It seems to me that our esteemed right wing leaders and their media owning chums are pulling a mighty fine trick here.

When the people themselves are starting to ask that the very rights they pay for are removed because of a few minorities and some migrants then I am really starting to panic.

"Please remove our rights and benefits that we pay for because of a few Daily Mail articles and some stuff I read about on Facebook"

"please make me think that because I work I can hate those that do not and resent this so I can get all self righteous and demand that you make my life more perilous when you screw things up the next time!!!"

(government): "Oh OK then if that is really what you want, who are we to argue."


These guys are so much more intelligent than us, they have us asking to make things worse because of a few well timed news articles whilst spending public money on whatever they please.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I must challenge that stereotype then?
I'm self employed and pay my own way in life, I base my assertions on a career in public service dealing with welfare benefits, plus a personal life with friends who are lazy bastards, I don't read newspapers, and I have no problem with immigration if our country needs it.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

I must challenge that stereotype then?
I'm self employed and pay my own way in life, I base my assertions on a career in public service dealing with welfare benefits, plus a personal life with friends who are lazy bastards, I don't read newspapers, and I have no problem with immigration if our country needs it.


You are fine to say whatever you please. You say it as you see it and back it up with reason.

What I cannot stand is those people that simply repeat things they have seen or heard or that some bloke down the pub told them.

As you say you pay your own way in life and I imagine expect nothing in return? The issue I have is with those that feel the need to demand that things are a certain way because it suits them but do not realise the implications of their actions.

When was the last time you were out of work and claimed? Or had a sick day yet still got paid? or turned down a crap job because you felt it was beneath you?

I would guess it has been a while but may be wrong?

I will dig holes with my bare hands if needs be to eat but some people seem to have an elevated sense of status and as they say pride comes before a fall.

I just think that people should be careful what they ask for.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I've claimed benefits for about 36 weeks on and off in my life and I've paid over a quarter of a million pounds in income tax.
I'm in credit with the state.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Lol, I started my civil service career in the DWP then got my degree and fast-tracked to the senior civil service.
I've done face to face decisions on the front line turning down crisis loans getting threatened with a stabbing and I've made and signed decisions on behalf of Secretary of States in Whitehall with other departments.
Don't have any preconceptions about my experiences fella, I've got heroin addict mates and millionaire mates lol.

There are many lazy bastards out there spilling coffee stains on job application forms, not offering or accepting a handshake at job interviews, etc, doing everything legal to negotiate the rules and not get the job as a result, but doing enough so they don't get sanctioned.
That is not recorded as fraud, it is the grey area of staying on benefits while avoiding having to work.
If you aren't aware of that then, lol, not much I can say to help.

*Edit*
I actually started with the Dept of Health and Social Security, then it changed to the Department of Social Security, then the Benefits Agency, and finally DWP which I transferred from shortly after it's creation.

*Edit again*
After resigning from the service I worked in local authority Social services as a 'welfare officer' helping council service users get the maximum they could from central government to mitigate the cost to the council. After that I worked for CAB as a welfare/debt advisor/advocate.
Lots and lots of lazy bastards in the UK, and lots of people who make stupid choices like £100 per month on the iphone contract instead of buying food and having a £10 a month pre-pay phone.
Bleat and break your heart as much as you like but the fraud/scam/game is deeply ingrained in UK society...you just don't see it lol


I'm not bleating or breaking my heart, I have more important things to do, although it feels like ATS is beginning to consume my time more and more of late. I am merely pointing out my observations and to be honest, if I had seen half of what you suggest you are seeing, then frankly, I'm glad I'm blinkered.

My job has changed now anyway and I love it. I don't have to deal with the Government of the day's problems. With regards to my social circles I certainly don't associate with drug users and the like, so I wouldn't expect to see half of what you do.

I have always believed that those who can work should and if those that can't work are provided for, a safety net to ensure any unfortunate fall,doesn't become big splat.

I own my own house lon a council estate, as do everyone in my street, but all my neighbours work. One's a boiler maker, 3 electricians, an insurance clerk, a hospital receptionist, a council senior customer advisor, a manager in local Government and three retirees. There are three families who have recently moved into the houses that are owned by private landlords, but they all appear to be working.

I have two friends who are single parents and one of them has a disabled sixteen year old, who can't do anything for themselves, hence she is her full time carer. She doesn't have enough money for luxuries, but she has to pay for taxis and the like when they need to go out anywhere. She has to pay for adaptions and sometimes respite. All of this is financed from the welfare system and long may it continue.

If you previously worked for the civil service, you would know that it is far easier to cut everyone's benefit than to tackle the underlying issues of long term unemployment or people who are claiming ESA that are capable of some sort of work.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
If you previously worked for the civil service, you would know that it is far easier to cut everyone's benefit than to tackle the underlying issues of long term unemployment or people who are claiming ESA that are capable of some sort of work.

No, it is easier to change a means-tested limit, or age of youngest child limit to stop lazy bitches popping more kids out lol...it is why age limits were changed when you were an AO.



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Scouse100
I agree nonspecific, if we go down that road then kids become a privilege that only the well off can afford because at the bottom end wages are low and living costs are high. And we can't forget that sh*t happens, people have kids planned and unplanned, families break up, people get sick. Life has a way of ignoring your best laid plans.

Of course you're always going to get folk who take advantage but that doesn't justify cutting off help and punishing everyone. Perhaps we should be looking at other ways to tackle that issue and it's probably wise to be looking at the causes.


It seems to me that our esteemed right wing leaders and their media owning chums are pulling a mighty fine trick here.

When the people themselves are starting to ask that the very rights they pay for are removed because of a few minorities and some migrants then I am really starting to panic.

"Please remove our rights and benefits that we pay for because of a few Daily Mail articles and some stuff I read about on Facebook"

"please make me think that because I work I can hate those that do not and resent this so I can get all self righteous and demand that you make my life more perilous when you screw things up the next time!!!"

(government): "Oh OK then if that is really what you want, who are we to argue."


These guys are so much more intelligent than us, they have us asking to make things worse because of a few well timed news articles whilst spending public money on whatever they please.





I will never let a few loud mouths effect my thinking. To be honest, I don't know a lot of people who are thinking that all of the country's ills are because of single parents and immigrants. Most people I associate with have a good understanding that immigration is a fact of life and always has been and that we have seen teenage pregnancies halved in the last 10 years.

Why is it always doom and gloom for the working man when the Tories are in?



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

But according to you, it isn't working. You can't have it both ways.


I enjoyed being an A.O more than any other grade. No responsibilities, no talking B.S, no settting unrealistic targets to satisfy the ONS ( Yes they really are made up).
edit on 20/3/16 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2016 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
I will never let a few loud mouths effect my thinking. To be honest, I don't know a lot of people who are thinking that all of the country's ills are because of single parents and immigrants.

Who has said that in this thread?
I'm not aware of anyone saying that, did you invent it for shock value???




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