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If God Exists

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posted on Mar, 21 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: spygeek




Am I made from God's properties or my parents' properties? Both? How do I know which properties are my parents' and which properties are God's?


I see....
How should i answer this question so that you understand...... We are all initiallyt the Properties of God.

- The Properties of the singularity that now have become the Properties of Our universe was formed 13,799 billion years ago. When the singularity was formed With its Properties, You were also already preplanned, so was Your parents and their parents.
You and Your parants would never have existed if the Properties to form you or them were not included. This is probably a hard nutt for you to Accept. But its a fact. Because you are present 13,799...and som billion years later.

You are a part of a strict timeline of expansion and changes which are governed by strict universal Laws. This means you are part of a strict system governed by universal laws.





Is there any conceivable way to separate God's properties from any properties at all? Do non-God properties exist? If not, than that is not even logical..


If God is all there is and takes up all Space there is. How can it then be illogical With non-God Properties?
- where would we get the Properties to make this logicall? You would have to use the Properties of God to make that happen.





Is the universe (all that physically exists) a being? What is the difference between the universe and God? Can He be separated in any way, from any thing?


God is separated by what he have created. God is infintie his creation is finite. Our finite universe is governed by universal laws. Not human laws or Our science.

I can not answear if Our universe is a being. To me it seams like Our universe is a strict system that is being governed.
If you read Genesis Chapter one you would get this impression.





If a being is infinite, it encompasses all possibilities and choices. How can it make choices when it already is all choices. How can it be limited to one choice and not another? That is not logical at all.


Before there was finite, there was only God the infinite state that takes up all Space there is. This means existance only consisted of God and nothing else. Logically this means only one reality existed, not every reality at once.

God made the Choice to create Our reality from all the infnite Choices he had. We just have to Accept that because "we" have no Choice..... We do try very hard to create a different reality for Our selves, there is no doubt about that. You are trying to defend it..... These are the Choices we make.





How can God make choice between A and B, if He already knows He will make choice A before the choice is presented? If God knows in advance all the choices that He will make, then He can never be said to have made any genuine choices at all.


God is absolute and absolute neutral and takes up all Space there is. God does not have Choices presented to him like we do.
When God is A absolute and takes up all Space there is; there is no B, C or D options. There is only 1. The right one.
God is all knowing, why would he argue with himself about a right or wrong options? Only we would do that because we are not all knowing and we dont know the future outcome of Our Choices.





Infinity is limited to not being finite. This limitation is self-imposed by its own definition. Something cannot be be infinite and choose to be finite, that is a logical contradiction.


That is the problem i have mentioned to you before. To understand this you have to figure out what the difference is between a absolute infinite emty Space compared to finite. Is finite infinite or not? If finite is not infinte something else must be. What is it?




Something cannot be be infinite and choose to be finite, that is a logical contradiction.



No it is not. It is a logical contradiction if the infinite should changes ramdomly. A infinite Space that is absolute empty of finite Properties is absolute neutral. When the infinite is absolut neutral and empty and takes up all Space there is, how does such a Space naturally form finite Properties? If it not done by Choice?

How do you logically explain it? A Radom cause wont cut it. Because there is nothing physically taking Place in such a Space.




So God cannot change. He is changeless. He is absolutely neutral and incapable of change or choice, according to your definition.


Yes. God formed finite, but that dont have to change who he is. The infinite doesnt disappear just because he created Our tiny universe.

I have to stop here.




posted on Mar, 21 2016 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: spygeek

I see....
How should i answer this question so that you understand......


Logically would help.


We are all initially the Properties of God.


So God has the properties of human existence?


- The Properties of the singularity that now have become the Properties of Our universe was formed 13,799 billion years ago.


The initial gravitational singularity did not have the properties of the universe. Space and time do not exist in a singularity. As soon as quantum fluctuations caused the universe to expand from the initial singularity, the singularity ceased to exist.

The properties of the universe formed during this expansion, the singularity did not share the same properties of the universe, nor were the universe's properties formed in the singularity.

It's debatable whether or not a singularity even preceded the big bang; string theory for instance posits a collision of two branes caused the big bang and created energy and matter.


When the singularity was formed With its Properties, You were also already preplanned, so was Your parents and their parents.


Aside from the fact that if the initial singularity existed, it could never be said to have "formed" at any "time", there is nothing to suggest pre-planning of any kind.

You would have to establish that the universe has a conscious intention or will before making any claim of pre-planning, there is simply no evidence to support this.


You and Your parants would never have existed if the Properties to form you or them were not included. This is probably a hard nutt for you to Accept. But its a fact. Because you are present 13,799...and som billion years later.


It's actually rather easy to accept that my parents and I couldn't exist unless the universe provided the basic necessities for life. You can't use our existence for evidence of a universal conscious will or pre-planning though.


You are a part of a strict timeline of expansion and changes which are governed by strict universal Laws. This means you are part of a strict system governed by universal laws.


There are places where these universal laws are variable, or even break down, so they aren't exactly the strictest of laws..

Aside from this, yes, I live as a part of a system governed by fundamental physical laws that allowed for me to exist.



If God is all there is and takes up all Space there is. How can it then be illogical With non-God Properties?


If God encompasses all properties, and no non-God properties exist, then logically God has no distinctive properties at all.

We might as well drop the "God" bit and just say "properties".


- where would we get the Properties to make this logicall? You would have to use the Properties of God to make that happen.


That's my point. We can't get any properties that are "non-God" from anywhere, so "God properties" are just "properties" with an undefined, pointless, and unjustified prefix.

Calling all properties "God properties" is illogical. There would have to be some "non-God properties" to logically justify and define the "God" prefix.


God is separated by what he have created. God is infintie his creation is finite.


So God is not His creation. We finally have something that God isn't..

You are contradicting yourself again though, for you claimed He was time and space all that filled it..


Our finite universe is governed by universal laws. Not human laws or Our science.


Of course. Yes. Accepted. Our universe has inherent natural laws that both govern it's operation and sustain its existence.

God is not necessary to explain these natural laws.


I can not answear if Our universe is a being. To me it seams like Our universe is a strict system that is being governed.


Objectively speaking the universe appears to be a fairly well balanced, self governing system.


If you read Genesis Chapter one you would get this impression.


Reading Genesis gives me the impression that the authors of it had very primitive beliefs and ideas about the origin of their world.


Before there was finite, there was only God the infinite state that takes up all Space there is.


Before there was finite, there was possibly a singularity of infinite density, or quantum fields, or branes, or something else entirely.. There most certainly was no "space". Space is finite. There was no "space" for God to fill.

Are you suggesting God is a gravitational singularity? A pair of branes? Can you mathematically quantify God in this state?


This means existance only consisted of God and nothing else. Logically this means only one reality existed, not every reality at once.


Only one reality does indeed exist, as far as we know. "God" of any logical definition is nowhere to be found in it.


God made the Choice to create Our reality from all the infnite Choices he had. We just have to Accept that because "we" have no Choice.....


I don't accept this because it is illogical. If God possesses infinite knowledge, He already knows every action He will ever take and can not be said to "choose" anything.


We do try very hard to create a different reality for Our selves, there is no doubt about that. You are trying to defend it..... These are the Choices we make.


We are trying very hard to construct a logically consistent understanding of reality. Throwing a completely illogical proposition in the mix that has no explanatory power, no predictive power, and no way to be objectively falsified does not help us at all.



God is absolute and absolute neutral and takes up all Space there is. God does not have Choices presented to him like we do.
When God is A absolute and takes up all Space there is; there is no B, C or D options. There is only 1. The right one.
God is all knowing, why would he argue with himself about a right or wrong options? Only we would do that because we are not all knowing and we dont know the future outcome of Our Choices.


So He in fact does not make choices. I'm glad you have conceded this point.


That is the problem i have mentioned to you before. To understand this you have to figure out what the difference is between a absolute infinite emty Space compared to finite. Is finite infinite or not? If finite is not infinte something else must be. What is it?


Why must anything be infinite? Space can not be infinite. Infinite can not physically exist.


No it is not. It is a logical contradiction if the infinite should changes ramdomly. A infinite Space that is absolute empty of finite Properties is absolute neutral. When the infinite is absolut neutral and empty and takes up all Space there is, how does such a Space naturally form finite Properties? If it not done by Choice?

How do you logically explain it? A Radom cause wont cut it. Because there is nothing physically taking Place in such a Space.

Yes. God formed finite, but that dont have to change who he is. The infinite doesnt disappear just because he created Our tiny universe.

I have to stop here.


As "infinite Space that is absolute empty" cannot exist, it defies explanation.
edit on 21-3-2016 by spygeek because: (no reason given)



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