If God Exists

a reply to: swanne

Well in that sense we have superior intelligence, but superior intelligence doesn't necessarily equate to more evolved. It's just an evolutionary advantage, albeit one that has proven to be quite useful. But then again dolphins as well as other apes tend to have decent intelligence as well. But keep in mind that using intelligence is a learned behavior. Adults have to teach the children how to use their intelligence otherwise the children wouldn't be able to master their surroundings as well as they already can. But a child born in the wild and not taught how to use its intelligence would act far more like a feral ape. Thus it is conceivable that there are other species on the planet that could potentially learn like we can as long as they figure out how to pass their accrued knowledge to the younger generations.

a reply to: reddragon2015

Whether a god exists or not is besides the point. We humans like having something to blame, something we can point at and say "look, it wasn't really our fault".

It works on all levels, we are a cowardly species.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Indeed, indeed.

I am only generalising and averaging, for the sake of simplicity.

originally posted by: spy66
Yes i agree. We do a lot of bad Things in the name of Our religion/God. BUt you should leave God out of it. Because if you dont believe God exists, it sure aint God who is doing these bad Things right.

But if you believe God exists -- and haven't decided make up a limited definition of God to suit your argument -- then God created the molesters, God created the children, God put them in the situation, and so on. God has a reason. Why did the child get molested? Well, maybe so that they will grow up and teach forgiveness. Who knows? Mysterious ways, and all that. It's all God, right?

And... there you hit your paradox again. "God" is a word people use to help them believe that existence isn't random, cruel and ultimately pointless.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: reddragon2015

Whether a god exists or not is besides the point. We humans like having something to blame, something we can point at and say "look, it wasn't really our fault".

It works on all levels, we are a cowardly species.

This.

People hate self responsibility. If there is a higher power directing this reality, then you can't really be responsible for your actions.

"well I will just place myself in GODs hands and everything will be alright"

There, see, I don't have to do anything challenging to improve my situation. I can just mumble a prayer and everything will be good.

originally posted by: reddragon2015
I don't understand why people worship god or gods. Even if he did exist and he's super powerful, is that any reason why we should worship him? Do his bidding? Why can't god just co-exist with other life form. So what if he did create us. I still don't see why people feel like he should be worship. So he made us, big whoop...

maybe some of you guys are religious and can share some insight why you guys worship a god/gods...

I tried to share your philosophy with my parents when I was young. I said just because you made me doesn't mean I have to listen to you or do what you say.

It didn't go over well.

ETA: I believe in God, but I don't worship 'IT'. People can honor and respect their parents without 'worshiping' them.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: spy66
Yes i agree. We do a lot of bad Things in the name of Our religion/God. BUt you should leave God out of it. Because if you dont believe God exists, it sure aint God who is doing these bad Things right.

But if you believe God exists -- and haven't decided make up a limited definition of God to suit your argument -- then God created the molesters, God created the children, God put them in the situation, and so on. God has a reason. Why did the child get molested? Well, maybe so that they will grow up and teach forgiveness. Who knows? Mysterious ways, and all that. It's all God, right?

And... there you hit your paradox again. "God" is a word people use to help them believe that existence isn't random, cruel and ultimately pointless.

No God did not create the molester. It is our political and soscial inviornment and structure which create these people. Our soscial system also forms every other dirtbag we have around. Blaming God for this means People dont understand the unjust system we have formed for Ourselves to live by. God never wanted us to live under these conditions. We are the once who want to live like this. And we are willing to sacrifice Our life to fight for a system that creats molester, killers and theifs and God know what else.

If Our existance is a creation of randomnes, Our science and math wouldnt add up either because everything that exists would still be changing randomly.

originally posted by: spy66
God never wanted us to live under these conditions.

Who are you to limit God? That's some straight-up blasphemy there, if you don't recognize it.

If an all-powerful, all-encompassing entity didn't want something, it wouldn't happen.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: spy66
God never wanted us to live under these conditions.

Who are you to limit God? That's some straight-up blasphemy there, if you don't recognize it.

If an all-powerful, all-encompassing entity didn't want something, it wouldn't happen.

I am not limiting God. Neither am i trying to. I am limiting us.

God gave us free will to do as we like. What you see in front of you is the result of Our intervision, prosparity and high hopes and free will.... but dont blame God if what you whiched for diden't turn out as you had hoped. It is not Gods fault every time we make a mistake.

Blaming God is like blaming Obama for the crap we do for him.

a reply to: artistpoet

reading certain scriptural text provides multiple claims that " god " likes the smell of burning animal - go figure

a reply to: reddragon2015
It's a simple concept really...


Love/revere/worship god, or he'll send you to the bad place.

originally posted by: reddragon2015
I don't understand why people worship god or gods. Even if he did exist and he's super powerful, is that any reason why we should worship him? Do his bidding? Why can't god just co-exist with other life form. So what if he did create us. I still don't see why people feel like he should be worship. So he made us, big whoop...

Indeed, it is troubling that faith alone is able to somehow overcome logical deficiencies so effectively as to justify itself beyond reasonable doubt.

There are many theistic claims that are not logically consistent, even self-refuting; an omniscient being capable of choice, a 'perfect' being that requires worship, a non-spacial omnipresent being, an 'all-loving' omnipotent being that allows eternal suffering etc, are all impossible and violate logic.

Any claim that a divine being exists in an unidentifiable, inaccessible realm of reality is a claim for either the impossible, or the unknowable, and falls over under scrutiny.

maybe some of you guys are religious and can share some insight why you guys worship a god/gods...

When I've asked this question, I've received a multitude of varied responses.. All have told me more about the individual in question and their own conscious existential needs than anything about the gods they worship. The most common reason I have received has been "I was brought up to have faith, and taught that to question one's faith is a sign of weakness". It appears to be more about what they been indoctrinated to believe than what they have logically concluded to be true on their own.

Other responses have included people asking, "why do you ask?" "it's none of your business what I believe", and "I don't have to justify myself to anyone but God". This defensiveness, (and occasional outright hostility) is demonstrative of the insular nature of faith and people's need to protect it above even the most cursory outside appraisal.

It appears that the reasons for faith in and worship of God or gods are dependent on the individual's own needs and expectations of reality. Logic and rationality do not come into it, and it is less about whether or not such a supreme being exists than it is about an individual's conscious need for such a being to exist, to justify their own existence. This leads to the questioning of a person's faith being tantamount to the questioning of that person's own reason for existence, hence the overly sensitive, protective nature of their response.

The maker of the following video, "Qualiasoup", received death threats after publishing it. It's very unfortunate, although not surprising, considering the above..

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Burnt offerings to something that does not exist just in case it does ... sounds like superstition ...
I doubt God require such ritual or appeasement ... unless God's a nut job.

a reply to: artistpoet

...unless God's a nut job.

Have you read the bible?

a reply to: Klassified

The Old Testament and Newer ones yes some but many years ago

I think there is wisdom to be found in their pages
Taken in their archaic context

Jesus was my hero when I was a kid and knew no better
Because of what he represented to me which was goodness and kinda cosmic

a reply to: spygeek

Very well written. Thank you.

a reply to: reddragon2015

I thought the same way.

I'm changing.

Love is one reason.
Counteracting hate is another.

The rest will follow.

a reply to: spygeek

There is a difference between controlled contrived religion (the tool of control) and real religion. Modern society and its 'satanic' leaders have muddied the waters. So any 'believer' is now a lunatic with no logic within. Therefore simple arguments against religion will always win on the face of it.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: spygeek

There is a difference between controlled contrived religion (the tool of control) and real religion. Modern society and its 'satanic' leaders have muddied the waters. So any 'believer' is now a lunatic with no logic within. Therefore simple arguments against religion will always win on the face of it.

"Leaders" can not control or influence basic logic.

How is the logic of "controlled, contrived religion", different from "real religion"?

How does "real religion" logically justify that a non-physical entity is omnipresent? That an omniscient being is capable of choice? That a "perfect" being requires worship?

What is the fundamental difference between controlled, contrived religion and real religion?

In what way does a simple argument against religion win "on the face it", but lose on a another (real?) level?