Jared the Child Molester Fogle caught an ass-kicking in prison.

originally posted by: ShadowLink
Hate to say it but, maybe if we did things would be different.

I don't believe for a moment that you "hate" to say this. You genuinely believe that beating people makes them behave differently. Well, you are right: you'll teach them that the way to make others do what you want is to beat them. Next time they feel that you are breaking THEIR law, they will come at you with a bat.

This is exactly how primitives think, e.g. criminals. So, by suggesting that we 'solve' our problems like this, you actually stoop as low - I believe, if a Government does this, even lower - as the criminals themselves. And you won't solve the problem.

Ever see the guy from Korea (I think it was) who got caned for drinking and driving?

I did not nor do a really have a desire to. It's undignified and uncivilised.

I bet money when you can't sit for a month cause your ass is bleeding you'll think twice before planting it in the drivers seat after a few drinks.

Well, if you really think a good beating cures bad behaviour, I hope you will visit me one day so I can club you for a while for spouting such nonsense

How many times do we hear of constant re-offenders in regards to things like drunk driving, robbery, etc, etc...

I totally agree that re-offenders are a problem. In countries that punish harsh there are way more re-offenders than in countries that focus on re-integration and dignified treatment. The reason may be a simple as this: if you have nothing to loose anymore and you are an societal outcast anyway, why not rob, or steal? But if you HAVE something to loose - or perhaps even are show a way to become an accepted, respected member of another group than the thugs that surround you, you may change your ways.

I'm not a fool - I know there are some people that can't be cured and the only way to protect society is to isolate them from it. But you can't beat the devil out - but you can beat the devil in.

a reply to: Ghost147

I am sure you are not suggesting that we the law abiding public instead needs to be educated to tolerate, understand, and learn to live with those afflicted with the mental disorder called pedophilia? ?

And not to be snotty, but maybe then also narcissistic murderers or schizophrenic shooters at movie theaters because they have a known disorder that can be documented by a study that shows we need to learn to understand them more so we can help them?

Dont get me wrong. I am all for giving help, treatment, or therapy for those that need it.

But if the dirty deed has already been done, then my sensitivities become very calloused and uncaring to those specific persons that did them regardless of their so called condition.

The funny thing is when his Subway commercials first started coming out I remember my father making a joke and saying that the guy looks like a complete pedophile... I just thought it was funny but now watching those commercials in hindsight I can totally see it.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I hope what happened to mydaughter happens to you.

I had felt sorry for your position (more so your daughters), but why would any person who brings up such horrible actions as a point of immorality actually wish these events on another person, especially over something as meaningless as an opinion that differs?

My empathy for you is gone.

Perhaps my final sentence was a bit harsh, but I can't for the life of me understand why people should think of any reason why a person like this should be treated humanely. My daughter awakes frequently with nightmares, 2 years after this happened and a year and a half after the slime was arrested. She has been in therapy for the entire year and a half, and her therapist tells me many things, but the worst thing she tells me is that incidents like this can leave lasting effects decades after they occur. The scum is going to end up doing 16 years, and then he's a free man. My daughter may never be totally free of this. I cannot understand why anybody would defend him.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

He's in prison for his nasty crimes. As much as some may want two wrongs never make a right.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Ghost147
I am sure you are not suggesting that we the law abiding public instead needs to be educated to tolerate, understand, and learn to live with those afflicted with the mental disorder called pedophilia? ?

Firstly, it is wrongly described as a Mental Disorder. Fortunately, there are many psychologists, neurologists and other researchers out there that are attempting to reclassify it at what it should be, a sexuality.

Out of the roughly 20 pedophiles I've interviewed, 18 out of 20 have always had a preference for children more so than people of their own age; many of those are exclusively attracted to children; 2 were the product of sexual abuse themselves and had since developed a paraphilia. Notice how none of them actively chose to become a pedophile, or were the result of their own actions, such as a porn addiction that lead to ever increasing taboo material. The resulting Pedophilia is entirely out of their control.

The few that have sought out help and received it have shown an exceptional level of control over their desires, and many of those people have no desire for a sexual relation at all, they are simply 'in-love' with children. Some of them are so afraid of ever harming a child, and so disgusted with themselves that they have voluntarily gone through chemical castration in order to prevent them ever harming anyone.

The many that have sought out help and were rejected had totally lost their lives because they were outed, detained for literally nothing, released for wrongful detainment, added to a sexual offenders list regardless if they did anything illegal, lost their jobs and their lives, and are now never going to seek help again, which will only lead to an extremely problematic future for them, and the potential damaging of another life or many lives.

All thanks to ignorance.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Ghost147
And not to be snotty, but maybe then also narcissistic murderers or schizophrenic shooters at movie theaters because they have a known disorder that can be documented by a study that shows we need to learn to understand them more so we can help them?

Yes, we should understand them more. Why wouldn't we? We could very well prevent these things from happening. We could very well identify individuals whom have a higher likelihood of doing such actions before they do them.

Or, would you prefer you let the events happen first, and then kill them off once they've already done the damage?

Research, in these cases, isn't just about knowledge, it's about prevention.

No one is saying that we should say "look, I know you molested a bunch of kids, but I tolerate you and consider you and I the same".

What we are saying is that learning about these people, learning about what makes them feel the way they feel, gaining this knowledge actually prevents horrible actions from occurring.

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Ghost147
Dont get me wrong. I am all for giving help, treatment, or therapy for those that need it.

Excellent! Then what do we have to do to achieve this?

~ Not demonize these people for doing nothing at all but being born the way they were.
~ Making Therapy easy to get without the threat of a life-ending scenario.
~ Not treating a sexuality like a mental disorder (The exact same things occurred to Homosexuality just a handful of years ago)
~ Understanding that many, perhaps even most of these people hate themselves for being whom they are and actually want to find help, but are too afraid to do so because of the social ignorance and hatred towards them

originally posted by: smirkley
a reply to: Ghost147
But if the dirty deed has already been done, then my sensitivities become very calloused and uncaring to those specific persons that did them regardless of their so called condition.

When did I ever disagree with this?

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
Perhaps my final sentence was a bit harsh

I'm glad to hear you can recognize that

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
but I can't for the life of me understand why people should think of any reason why a person like this should be treated humanely.

Because some people have the opinion that our system should function the way it was designed to. Not only that, but we have wrongful convictions all the time, and death sentences can cost the state over $300,000,000, while life in prison can cost $30,000,000.

Since California reinstated the death penalty in 1978, it's executed 13 people and with a grand total of $4 billion in related spending, that works out to a cost of $308 million per person

Our law system is not nearly perfect enough to be capable of executing people whom are actually guilty either.

There has been a total number of 156 exoneration's of people whom were given the death sentence (since 1973), with the most recent being Derral Hodgkins on October 12, 2015

156 people who were released from death row after being found innocent! Do you really want it to be increased? Imagine just how many people have actually been executed whom were innocent.

You're argument is on being "humane", the notion of death row isn't inhumane because we're killing people, it's inhumane because of the billions in tax dollars it uses to achieve it, and it's inhumane because our legal system isn't good enough at catching the correct person.

Besides, if it was me, wouldn't Death Row be a good thing? Why would I want to spend 60 years in prison and die then when I could just die far sooner? Of course, that's just opinion.

The fact is, the legal system is crap. The investigations on rape is beyond crap, even if the case involves underage peoples. The sentences that many rapists and child molesters receives is a joke (and I have done a lot of research on this matter).

It's unfair, absolutely, but I don't feel that we should applaud the further abuse of the system either.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
My daughter awakes frequently with nightmares, 2 years after this happened and a year and a half after the slime was arrested. She has been in therapy for the entire year and a half, and her therapist tells me many things, but the worst thing she tells me is that incidents like this can leave lasting effects decades after they occur. The scum is going to end up doing 16 years, and then he's a free man. My daughter may never be totally free of this. I cannot understand why anybody would defend him.

I have interviewed several dozen people whom have gone through the same thing your daughter has, and in many cases the person whom was arrested had absolutely atrocious sentences.

What people in this topic are arguing isn't in defense of the person who committed the act, but the further violation of an already broken system.

a reply to: reldra

No. he will be on a sexual offender list the rest of his life. He will not be able to work around children and need to live so far from a school/daycare/ etc. He will have mandatory counseling and checkins.

Unfortunately this is not the way it is. In our area there is an epidemic of child abuse and sexual predators, child rapists, etc. are supposed to follow those rules. We are allowed to look up offenders online and 70% of the ones in town are located all around our children's park. One was arrested for continued child rape and lived behind and next to the school for YEARS!

Often the addresses are old because they do not check up on the offender's just too many or too big of a job I guess.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I am trying to understand why you would equate gays with pedophiles/childmolesters.

Gays aren't thinking about touching kids, thats exclusive pedo territory.

And again, by being gay and acting on that desire, you are not violating someone elses rights or body.

Not so much with the pedo shoes on, you know, you can't tell me a 5 yr old consented.

Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp?

Everyone likes to play the victim, it's beyond old.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrg

I am trying to understand why you would equate gays with pedophiles/childmolesters.

Gays aren't thinking about touching kids, thats exclusive pedo territory.

He is equating the two because Pedophilia is just another sexuality, like Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Asexuality, Pansexuality, and so forth.

It is wrongfully accounted for as a "mental disorder" (like homosexuality once was) when in fact it is not.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrg
And again, by being gay and acting on that desire, you are not violating someone elses rights or body.

Not so much with the pedo shoes on, you know, you can't tell me a 5 yr old consented.

No on is saying that a pedophile should be able to act on their desire, and as I have stated multiple times now, many Pedophiles have no desire for sexual contact with children what so ever, but merely are in love with children at an emotional level exclusively.

No, the act of Child molestation should not be condoned, ever.

But being a pedophile does not mean you want to have sex with children. It certainly is the case for a population of pedophiles, but sexualities vary from their extremes and their desires.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp?

Why is it so hard to grasp that Pedophilia does not necessarily equal Sex with Children?

a reply to: Ghost147

Well I replied to him because he implied I ought to feel that gays should be put to death, and I don't at all, if someone violates a child however.

Put them in the meat grinder.

a reply to: Ghost147

I'm sorry. But Jared did have sex with children. And went to the big house. And has to live there with people who hate him. Maybe fifteen years of constant hate and beatings is his punishment. Yea the prison guards should stop it. I wonder if they will.

If his sentence is not too short maybe the other sentences of the same time for less heinous crimes are too long.

a reply to: Ghost147

Also I typed pedophile just general, I know you wanna make a grandcase about proper terminology, but it probably falls on deaf ears, yes we know the difference, sake the arguement I was using it in place for child-molester. Lets just call them potential predators.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp?

Why is it so hard to grasp that Pedophilia does not necessarily equal Sex with Children?

Lets actually look at this, did I say pedohile? I said someone who violates therefore making them a child molester, get off your soap box already, you don't even actually read what I wrote, just jump to rebuttal.

It's cool though I ain't mad, just a waste of time in a circle.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Ghost147

Well I replied to him because he implied I ought to feel that gays should be put to death, and I don't at all, if someone violates a child however.

Put them in the meat grinder.

I see

originally posted by: Sillyosaurus
a reply to: Ghost147

I'm sorry. But Jared did have sex with children. And went to the big house. And has to live there with people who hate him. Maybe fifteen years of constant hate and beatings is his punishment. Yea the prison guards should stop it. I wonder if they will.

If his sentence is not too short maybe the other sentences of the same time for less heinous crimes are too long.

I don't think anyone is defending Jared or his sentence...

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Ghost147

Also I typed pedophile just general, I know you wanna make a grandcase about proper terminology, but it probably falls on deaf ears, yes we know the difference, sake the arguement I was using it in place for child-molester. Lets just call them potential predators.

I have my extreme doubts that 'we know the difference'. You may as well be saying "preists" instead of "pedophile" as the same differences would apply to it and "Child Molester".

Why is it difficult to use what actually applies to the subject at hand instead of a term based off of and the embracement of ignorance?

originally posted by: Lysergic

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp?

Why is it so hard to grasp that Pedophilia does not necessarily equal Sex with Children?

Lets actually look at this, did I say pedohile? I said someone who violates therefore making them a child molester, get off your soap box already, you don't even actually read what I wrote, just jump to rebuttal.

Yes, you did...

Not so much with the pedo shoes on, you know, you can't tell me a 5 yr old consented. Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp?

What reason do I have to believe that you weren't referring to pedophilia when the sentence before the one you're defending now is referencing pedophilia?

a reply to: Ghost147

It's alright, I'll get over it.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Lysergic
Fogle apparently has a light sentence, someone, possibly a father decided, Vigilantism is the only way.

Inmate's brother says prisoner would beat up ex-Subway spokesman, Jared Fogle, again
Convict wants attention drawn to Fogle's sentence

www.thedenverchannel.com...

It is not the way. Fogle was sentenced and should be able to live out the sentence without being beaten. That is the job of the guards to stop. A person is sentenced to prison, not to being beaten. No matter what anyone might think of doing to him in their head.

The prison system failed someone in their custody.

Yeah? Would you say that if your daughter was one of the kids he molested? Seriously? These people are sick, twisted monsters! I believe crimes like his should result in death, and I am usually against most applications of the death penalty. He's lucky he didn't catch a bonecrusher to the throat.

Way to over react. You are part of rhe reason some innocent people get hurt or killed by being mob accused of molesting kids. The kids the kids!!! save the kids!!! Kiiiil him!! Crush his throat.

Just calm down.

No he wouldn't say that if it was his daughter. Thats because he would be filled with rage. And it would not be an unbiased opinion. Make sense?

The man should be allowed to complete his sentence without fear of mob justice. Tbats the whole point of prison, isnt it? This is 2016. Not ancient Rome. It's never a good thing when prisoners get hurt by other prisoners. For you to be baying for his blood is sick. Shame on you.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I don't believe for a moment that you "hate" to say this.

You're right, I don't hate to say it. I just thought it would be a more pleasant way to open my harsh view of reality to sympathetic people like you.

You genuinely believe that beating people makes them behave differently.

I wouldn't necessarily say I believe that cause I really don't know, I haven't done any research into the subject.
What I do believe though is that the current way of things isn't working and perhaps it's time to try something different.
Sorry you're so shocked and offended by it.

Well, if you really think a good beating cures bad behaviour, I hope you will visit me one day so I can club you for a while for spouting such nonsense

Best part of your response right there^.
Not only does wanting to beat my ass contradict everything you're apparently against, it's for far less of an offense. Not a crime but a different opinion.
I'd be happy to take a detour to visit you next time I'm in Europe.

I totally agree that re-offenders are a problem.

At least we agree on one thing.

In countries that punish harsh there are way more re-offenders than in countries that focus on re-integration and dignified treatment.

As I've said, I haven't done any research into this subject, care to provide me with some reading material. Perhaps in the form of statistics.

I'm not a fool - I know there are some people that can't be cured and the only way to protect society is to isolate them from it.

I stand corrected, that's two things we completely agree on.

But you can't beat the devil out - but you can beat the devil in.

Ahh, so this is why you want me to stop by for a visit?

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ForteanOrgI am trying to understand why you would equate gays with pedophiles/childmolesters.

Because both are sexual preferences that one is born with.

And again, by being gay and acting on that desire, you are not violating someone elses rights or body.

Well, actually, in the 1950s we thought differently:

Not so much with the pedo shoes on, you know, you can't tell me a 5 yr old consented.

I didn't, these are entirely your words.

Dont want to be punished? Don't violate someone else, if its so primitive, why is it so hard to grasp? Everyone likes to play the victim, it's beyond old.

Punishment does not help, a fact that has been researched and proven over and over again. Prevention and education does.

a reply to: ShadowLink

You seem to have missed the part of my remark. Of course I would never club you to correct your behaviour - I was merely imitating you, tongue-in-cheek.