North Korea sentences U.S. student to 15 years hard labor for taking a banner.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa" Come on Man" going to steal something in NK really? Like trying to steal something from a rat. I would have tried to bribe the judge with a lifetime of free meals at KFC.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: frostie

Try as I might, I can't figure out what is going through someones head in not just visting North Korea but in trying to do something like this.

College kids get themselves into 100's of thousands of dollars in debt. They do dumb things, they are young and inexperienced.

If we had a strong president he would be home right now, for doing something stupid like this.

If Trump, Bernie, or Hillary were smart they would make a big deal out of this.

a reply to: Realtruth

What would you envision your "strong" president doing to get him "home right now"?

Invade North Korea to free him, and risk a major international diplomatic incident, over ONE man who actually DID break the laws of North Korea? Also risking a war with a nuclear power who's dictator is insane enough to actually push the button? A nation that is so militarised, that it has the largest standing army in the world (admittedly badly trained and equipped, but numbers do count for something).

No, your "strong" president would do what your current president is doing. Nothing. The guy actually did break the laws of that country. There will be diplomatic talks going on, and some time in the future, the Norks will wring a few concessions off America, in order to get the guy back.

But there will be no overt interventions.

I wrote a letter on his behalf to North Korea News. I asserted that the Proletkult art itself was compelling in a way he didn't understand, him having the mind of a child. More importantly, I explained that the American-Capitalist impulse is to "have" or "take" things, not comprehending the true nature of communal property. Also, 99% of Americans respect DPRK enough to never commit such an act. No further harm needs to come from this, in the form of a cruel punishment.

I hope it helps him, he's gonna need it.

a reply to: BMorris

Worth noting, most citizens of western countries don't actually go to labor camps in NK. It's a possible outcome, and that's what they're sentenced to but NK tends to value those prisoners as being worth more alive, and usually just imprisons them and effectively ransoms them back to their home nation instead. They don't actually go to labor camps unless their home nation says no to getting them back.

originally posted by: BMorris
a reply to: Realtruth

What would you envision your "strong" president doing to get him "home right now"?

Invade North Korea to free him, and risk a major international diplomatic incident, over ONE man who actually DID break the laws of North Korea? Also risking a war with a nuclear power who's dictator is insane enough to actually push the button? A nation that is so militarised, that it has the largest standing army in the world (admittedly badly trained and equipped, but numbers do count for something).

No, your "strong" president would do what your current president is doing. Nothing. The guy actually did break the laws of that country. There will be diplomatic talks going on, and some time in the future, the Norks will wring a few concessions off America, in order to get the guy back.

But there will be no overt interventions.

Largest Armies In The World
Rank Country Active Military
1 People's Republic of China 2,285,000
2 United States of America 1,361,755
3 India 1,325,450
4 Democratic People's Republic of Korea 1,190,000


SO no NK dont have the largest army. And the CHinese woudnt act unless their border was infringed on(the chinese one to NK that is)

Short range ABM batteries would accompany a US intervention to NK if they tried a rescue to shoot down those 5 or six they have if NK was stupid enough to fire them.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: BMorris
a reply to: Realtruth

What would you envision your "strong" president doing to get him "home right now"?

Invade North Korea to free him, and risk a major international diplomatic incident, over ONE man who actually DID break the laws of North Korea? Also risking a war with a nuclear power who's dictator is insane enough to actually push the button? A nation that is so militarised, that it has the largest standing army in the world (admittedly badly trained and equipped, but numbers do count for something).

No, your "strong" president would do what your current president is doing. Nothing. The guy actually did break the laws of that country. There will be diplomatic talks going on, and some time in the future, the Norks will wring a few concessions off America, in order to get the guy back.

But there will be no overt interventions.

Largest Armies In The World
Rank Country Active Military
1 People's Republic of China 2,285,000
2 United States of America 1,361,755
3 India 1,325,450
4 Democratic People's Republic of Korea 1,190,000


SO no NK dont have the largest army. And the CHinese woudnt act unless their border was infringed on(the chinese one to NK that is)

Short range ABM batteries would accompany a US intervention to NK if they tried a rescue to shoot down those 5 or six they have if NK was stupid enough to fire them.

What has always been a bit baffling to me is China's role in all of this. Its quite obvious that the Chinese do not want the American military right on their border. That makes perfect sense. What I don't understand is the cost/benefit ratio in all of this. Lil Kim seems to be creating more and more diplomatic problems for China. It would seem they would have told him to tone it down a bit. Perhaps he really is that reckless and is not listening? Maybe China sees him as a strategic distraction to the US causing the American military to divert and expend precious resources there as opposed to the South China Sea for example? Maybe I've just answered my own question, but at times I wonder why China doesn't back a coup d'etat in NK and create a vassal state... Unless that's exactly what North Korea is and they are doing exactly as the Chinese wish.

a reply to: FlyingFox

him having the mind of a child.

You should have also added...like your current presidents state of mind.

As that is what little Kim reminds me of...a child who isn't getting the attention he thinks he deserves so he throws a tantrum that will in the end cause him to be released from his duties as president of NK.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Lil Kim seems to be creating more and more diplomatic problems for China. It would seem they would have told him to tone it down a bit.

They have, the problem is little Kim just ignores them to a point...and I feel that point has passed and NK doesn't care anymore.

Perhaps he really is that reckless and is not listening?

He really is just look at what he has done to some of his government officials...and one was an uncle.

originally posted by: Discotech

It's ironic how people moan about immigrants coming to our countries and not adapting to our culture, but when somebody goes to North Korea and doesn't follow their rules/culture it's suddenly a travesty ?

I'm not sure how you see a relationship between a person who illegally lives in our country with little chance they might be deported to a dumb ass kid who steals a propaganda poster and gets 15 years in NK? People living in our country illegally is wrong and cost a lot of tax money at the State level so it is not just "moaning" about this issue.

originally posted by: BMorris
a reply to: Realtruth

What would you envision your "strong" president doing to get him "home right now"?

Invade North Korea to free him, and risk a major international diplomatic incident, over ONE man who actually DID break the laws of North Korea? Also risking a war with a nuclear power who's dictator is insane enough to actually push the button? A nation that is so militarised, that it has the largest standing army in the world (admittedly badly trained and equipped, but numbers do count for something).

No, your "strong" president would do what your current president is doing. Nothing. The guy actually did break the laws of that country. There will be diplomatic talks going on, and some time in the future, the Norks will wring a few concessions off America, in order to get the guy back.

But there will be no overt interventions.

We have a weak president and you are passively aggressively defending him.

"Does the punishment fit the crime?" answer is No.

Anyone can write laws whether they are just or not is a different thing.

When a country has a weak leader they get taken advantage of. It's the same a the nerd, or wimp in school, bullies will pick on him just because they can.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Lil Kim seems to be creating more and more diplomatic problems for China. It would seem they would have told him to tone it down a bit.

They have, the problem is little Kim just ignores them to a point...and I feel that point has passed and NK doesn't care anymore.

Perhaps he really is that reckless and is not listening?

He really is just look at what he has done to some of his government officials...and one was an uncle.

He should care one would think. Weren't most of his resources, be them food or steel, etc., coming through China? Albeit illegally.

As far as the executions go some are not all that shocking. One must wonder about his uncle though. His wife was, and presumably still is, a very important party official. I sometimes wonder if the execution was a farse, mainly meant for internal consumption amongst the elite. Perhaps he is off somewhere living out his retirement in luxury. Or, perhaps the consensus view is correct; Kim the younger is that desperate to consolidate his own rule.

The one thing that seems a bit off is that one would assume the Kim Jung Il would have groomed him and would have helped consolidate his sons power before his own death. That may be an idiotic position to take because Kim Jung Il essentially locked away his own father for a number of years, the founder of NK, Kim Il Sung.

It's too bad that no reliable intelligence that exits the country reaches the masses on the interwebs. It seems highly likely that Western intel organs also have fairly little compared to their other targets.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

One must wonder about his uncle though. His wife was, and presumably still is, a very important party official. I sometimes wonder if the execution was a farse, mainly meant for internal consumption amongst the elite. Perhaps he is off somewhere living out his retirement in luxury.

Knowing NK,

This is very very possible, and the same reason the kid will get off in a few years just like all the other Americans sentenced to 10+ years did.

NK is all about show and talk, and not about doing. Same reason they havnt nuked anyone or ever will. But by GOD they will make sure their "testing" is a big deal.

Bluffing panzies..

originally posted by: s3cz0neI wonder why China doesn't back a coup d'etat in NK and create a vassal state... Unless that's exactly what North Korea is and they are doing exactly as the Chinese wish.

It's too expensive. Neither China or South Korea wants to take on the financial burden of being responsible for North Korea.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

REALLY where?
1 oz at a time,NOT a quarter FRIGGIN pound is legal.
If you like that YOU WOULD LOVE how they loose their MINDS about natural hallucinogenics it's attempted MANSLAUGHTER for Dr Leary's favorite drug.
But comparing us to the Norks?
Loose.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: s3cz0neI wonder why China doesn't back a coup d'etat in NK and create a vassal state... Unless that's exactly what North Korea is and they are doing exactly as the Chinese wish.

It's too expensive. Neither China or South Korea wants to take on the financial burden of being responsible for North Korea.

Maybe. As it is NK is a pretty expensive neighbor as it is. NK needs a coup more than Turkey does. Turkey, however, may actually be a bigger threat to the world order ironically enough.

It is true however that NK tends to puff out their chest but not actually doing anything. It seems young Kim is a wildcard. He seems to be upping the ante and is not, strictly speaking, sticking to the playbook. Maybe that's part of the plan!?

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Ergh... Pardon my grammar/first sentence of my previous post. I should really stop posting from my smartphone with it's autocorrect and all.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

It's even more expensive to take them over. Not only would you have a population that will resist with guerrilla fighting, but the workers are all very poorly educated, totally brainwashed, and almost completely unskilled. There is no industry there to support the populace. They're well defended and unable to support themselves. It would be a huge drain on anyone to try and control the area, it's the cornerstone of their defense policy.

a reply to: Aazadan

It is very interesting that you bring up the issue of brainwashing. They seem to have perfected it. At least better than most. Many "UN" soldiers returned brainwashed as it were. In fact the US national security establishment was so concerned that it may have been part of the impetus for Bluebird, MKUltra and the like. It's curious that they have been able to do such an effective job at indoctrinating their population. A population that is largely poor and hungry. It's very odd that they didn't follow China's lead of semi opening markets but then again China was, as usual, very wise in breaking or partially breaking the existing cult of personality.

It makes me wonder at times if we are all under a spell. If we all have in fact been brainwashed and we're all just pawns in someone's diabolical game. I wonder if those of us who think ourselves enlightened are just walking down a road that has already been paved for us. Strange times we live in with global media, commerce and communication. Strange times indeed. I'm sure none of this is or ever was lost on the overlords. The overlords that financed and to some extent own the innovations that make all of that possible.