I Don't Understand Death, Nobody Does!

a reply to: angryhulk

The potential for existence is fractal, making existence a fleeing emergent perspective point in time, a time that exist forever as the past. We have and will forever exist as potential.

a reply to: zatara

Yes. It's a nice way to look at things I guess. Are you essentially saying you believe everything is pre-programmed, even this discussion.

originally posted by: flyingfish
The potential for existence is fractal, making existence a fleeing emergent perspective point in time, a time that exist forever as the past. We have and will forever exist as potential.

Thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate?

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: flyingfish
The potential for existence is fractal, making existence a fleeing emergent perspective point in time, a time that exist forever as the past. We have and will forever exist as potential.

Thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate?

There will be no turning back.



I believe time is an emergent property with the future coming into existence moment by moment.
Unfolding within an infinite number of dynamic reference frames from individual perspectives, continuously interacting and coming in and out of existence. All this from information or synchronization of quantum entanglement, emergent from a singularity as momentum, as potential.
Imagine we are on a 2-D surface of a massive black hole with quantum wave particle expanding out in an inverse sphere with this continuous energy exchange as a process of continuous creation.
An intuitive way of thinking of an inverse sphere is that the energy source or even the observer is within the center of the sphere looking out into the past.

originally posted by: flyingfish
originally posted by: angryhulk
originally posted by: flyingfish

flyingfish: I believe time is an emergent property with the future coming into existence moment by moment.
Unfolding within an infinite number of dynamic reference frames from individual perspectives, continuously interacting and coming in and out of existence. All this from information or synchronization of quantum entanglement, emergent from a singularity as momentum, as potential.

This is why one's personality 'perspective' is so important. 7 billion creator beings on this planet now and do not realize their potential to effect change.

flyingfish: imagine we are on a 2-D surface of a massive black hole with quantum wave particle expanding out in an inverse sphere with this continuous energy exchange as a process of continuous creation.
An intuitive way of thinking of an inverse sphere is that the energy source or even the observer is within the center of the sphere looking out into the past.

You are all things, the integer, the direct participant and the observer all at ONCE.

originally posted by: angryhulk
a reply to: zatara

Yes. It's a nice way to look at things I guess. Are you essentially saying you believe everything is pre-programmed, even this discussion.

Why not? There are no surprises unless those of morality (mankind being inhumane). You incarnated with a contract (things to be accomplished to move your soul into a more enlightened place). Who knows how detailed that contract was including in the future/now present conversations with others.

a reply to: angryhulk

I believe there's something after this life, personally, I agree we seem too complex to simply end. Then there's the fact that energy never ceases to be, so regardless, we stick around in some way shape or form... Forever. I personally believe it goes beyond that and that our minds are important and profound...

But statistics are too often used to support this thought process when they shouldn't be.
My chances of life were equal to that of anything else. Fill a box full of balls with numbers one through a really big number, your chances of picking out 1, or the really big number ,or any between those are the exact same chance. I don't find significance in statistical probability picking me, because if it wasn't me, it may be someone else - they may even reply to your post in a similar matter, who knows.

On a cosmic scale, I'd think that true anomalies would not exist in such a small space as 13 billion light years, but then again I could never know the truth of the matter.

originally posted by: angryhulk
I Don't Understand Death, Nobody Does!

In reality, you couldn't be any further from the truth.

Many have died and come back to tell about it.

It happens on a daily basis in fact.

I some places it is so common that they are no longer surprised when it happens.

Heidi Baker and David Hogans ministries are two good examples of this.

It's known as the "Lazarus Phenomenon" and it has been going on for a long long time.

How can you understand?

Simple really, study those who have actually experienced it.

For those who might think these people were not actually dead, think again.

The resurrections of the Lord Jesus Christ and Lazarus among countless others throughout history back this up.

Dr. Richard Eby's experience is a more recent one.

He fell off a balcony and landed on his head, his skull was split in two with parts of his brain on the sidewalk, he had no blood left in his body.

When he came back to life in a bloodless corpse in the morgue, the MD refused to believe he was alive because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.

Many of these NDE's come back with irrefutable proof and/or knowledge that they could have NEVER gotten unless they were in fact dead.

Colton Burpo, Annabel Beam, Betty Malz, Dr. George Rodonaia are a few examples of this happening.

Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened." When Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience...

Link 1 //// Link 2

George Rodonaia was assassinated by the KGB and spent three days in a morgue freezer:

"Dr. Rodonaia was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident. He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God."

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. LINK

"I had to die to learn how to live. I died for 28 minutes, and it was during this death experience that I learned how to live. There is life after death and it is not a place where spirits float around bored being nice. It is a real place."

Death is like getting on a roller coaster (Video)
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Annabelle described seeing her great-grandmother, who she said looked much younger in Heaven, and also described a purported encounter with Jesus. Beam said that the key moment that convinced her that Annabelle was telling the truth came when she said that she saw a little girl in Heaven who God told her was her sister.

“I had had two miscarriages, and one of them had been the creation of life,” Beam told The Blaze, noting that the other pregnancy resulted in a blighted ovum, a situation in which a fertilized egg doesn’t develop. She once told her daughters that she had two miscarriages, but did not go into detail about the blighted ovum.

“When Anna was telling me about [heaven], she said, ‘I saw a little girl in Heaven, mommy, and she looked just like you … and [she] said, ‘I know that face and I asked God ‘who is that little girl’ and He said, ‘Anna, that’s your sister’ and that did it for me,’” Beam said. ”I just remember thinking there’s no way for her to have known.”

Beam said that she remembered thinking at the time that, if Annabelle were lying, she would have said that she saw two children in Heaven but, instead, she said she only saw one. Considering that only one of the pregnancies progressed, she was floored. “I thought at that moment, ‘This is real, this happened,’” Beam said. After the incident with the tree, Annabelle’s illnesses cleared up and she went from taking 10 medications per day to taking none, according to her mother. “Her life is different and everybody sees it,” she said.

whygodreallyexists.com...

Swallowed by a Tree and Fighting to Survive
Interview with Christy and Annabel Beam
Christy and Annabel Beam: Miracles From Heaven

a reply to: Murgatroid

Movie trailers based on debunked anecdotal tales from a child along with other anecdotal tales would only convince the most desperate and gullible...

a reply to: Prezbo369

So would some peoples posts on the internet...

Posts such as yours rank right up there with the rest of the 'anecdotal tales'.

And that sig quote about "grasping the universe as it really is"...the irony is so perfect.

Nothing personal, but as far as credibility goes, just not seein' it...

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Prezbo369

So would some peoples posts on the internet...

Posts such as yours rank right up there with the rest of the 'anecdotal tales'.

It seems you don't know what an 'anecdotal tale' is....

Anecdotal Evidence

Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may affect the collection or presentation of evidence.

In other words, it's garbage and yet it's all you ever produce on here, and you produce it as hard proof of these extraordinary claims of magic and other such beliefs...

And that sig quote about "grasping the universe as it really is"...the irony is so perfect.

Nothing personal, but as far as credibility goes, just not seein' it...

All i've said is that the evidence you present as 'proof' of the claims you make is pathetic and would only convince those that want such old wives tales to be true. Anyone that approached such evidence with any critical thinking skills would quickly dismiss them as folk law and nonsense.

Every single post of yours that i've encountered was filled with anecdotal claims of extraordinary suspensions of the laws of the universe, and you present them as proof because you seem to want them to be true, which isn't a path to the truth...

angryhulk:

I don't understand death, nobody does!

It depends on what part of death you mean. The process of undergoing physical death is quite well understood. The human body is, as you know, compromised of systems within systems. The skeleton is actually an inert structure, which, when taken out of the body is as useless as a lump of stone. It cannot command volition for and unto itself. Within its bony scaffolding, many different organs reside, different from each other in shape and purpose, each a system unto itself to conduct particular and specific activity for the good of the whole. The physical human body serves one function, and that is to incubate the personable entity that emerges and matures from birth to adulthood.

The physical human body grows to a peak of optimal function and then passes on to old age, withers and dies. The body being a set of complex systems within systems eventually falls prey to entropy and atrophy. Its natural cycles of regeneration eventually misfire, mis-replicate, or not at all. Yet, the body does not fail or die en-masse or in one instance, but that various parts of it fail before others, Many of these failings do not bring death to the whole, but disability and handicap. No matter what we do to keep ourselves fit and active and fed, we still age and die. The body is a finite holistic system.

What about the personable entity? That seemingly mental ethereal aspect of you that drives the system, commands it to move about from place to place, that even as the body continues to age and grow old, 'it' itself does not. From birth to optimal adulthood, the personable entity develops parallel to the physical structure, but unlike the body, remains throughout life at that optimal level. The personable entity matures, but does not grow old. Ageing of the physical body prepares and indeed, motivates the entity to leave it, to shed it and place it aside as no longer worthy of retention and purpose.

So yes, physical death is well understood, what follows it for the entity, is not.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

A contract! That's a big file my friend
I wonder if the small print includes 8 to 5 jobs, yo-yo dieting, debt management and the Kardashians... and nobody reads it.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
angryhulk:

I don't understand death, nobody does!

What about the personable entity? That seemingly mental ethereal aspect of you that drives the system, commands it to move about from place to place, that even as the body continues to age and grow old, 'it' itself does not. From birth to optimal adulthood, the personable entity develops parallel to the physical structure, but unlike the body, remains throughout life at that optimal level. The personable entity matures, but does not grow old. Ageing of the physical body prepares and indeed, motivates the entity to leave it, to shed it and place it aside as no longer worthy of retention and purpose.

So yes, physical death is well understood, what follows it for the entity, is not.

That's exactly what I mean buddy!

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: angryhulk

I believe there's something after this life, personally, I agree we seem too complex to simply end. Then there's the fact that energy never ceases to be, so regardless, we stick around in some way shape or form... Forever. I personally believe it goes beyond that and that our minds are important and profound...

Absolutely. That's another observation in that energy cannot be destroyed (or created), it just changes form. How that ties in with this argument I'm not sure.

originally posted by: angryhulk
a reply to: vethumanbeing

angryhulk: A contract! That's a big file my friend

I wonder if the small print includes 8 to 5 jobs, yo-yo dieting, debt management and the Kardashians... and nobody reads it.

You will not be able read the invisible ink or that microscopic small print in the last paragraph. I would image a failed Zoo, or movie studio bankruptcy. YO-YO dieting or pogo stick dancing involved. If we all had expensive PR and could promote our own family foibles; *Who Or* them out for the world to see (and make a fortune) might see the humor in living on earth with no scruples (acquiring physical wealth) is the main goal or thumbing ones nose at what is truly NOBLE and defines the best parts of what it means to be human; those that in history made a real difference.

non-existence or nothingness is paradoxical:

if I die at any point of time and cease to exist (disperse to nothingness) I have never existed at all, my whole 'timeline' gets erased...

so, why do I/my 'timeline' exist now?

by the simplistic logic of materialists, no one should exist now...

but logic dictates there should be some kind of continuity of our timeline after so called 'death'...

as for the answers what happens after we die, read Robert Monroe books... he is the one that first used OBE (out of body experience) term, and in my opinion he is most objective in this area of research...

cheers

originally posted by: donhuangenaro
non-existence or nothingness is paradoxical:

Total nonexistence is paradoxical, an individual's nonexistence is not.

if I die at any point of time and cease to exist (disperse to nothingness) I have never existed at all, my whole 'timeline' gets erased...

Not so.. Just like everyone who came before you, everything you do in life has a lasting effect beyond your own existence. The only thing that is erased when you die is your ability to do anything more..

so, why do I/my 'timeline' exist now?

That's up to you to decide. You were granted a life by your parents, so you could ask them why they made you and try to live up to that, but it's more fun to discover your talents and make your own purpose for living..

by the simplistic logic of materialists, no one should exist now...

Clearly you don't understand what materialists believe.. According to "simple materialist logic", our existence is inevitable..

but logic dictates there should be some kind of continuity of our timeline after so called 'death'...

How does logic dictate this? How are you defining "timeline" here? Is it the same as "lifetime"? Logic dictates that at the end of one's lifetime, their timeline ends too..

They do leave behind the actions they performed during life, and the attached consequences.. I guess if those actions and consequences influence others, they could be said to have continued their timeline...?? Certainly a lot of the rubbish you create and dispose of outlasts your own "timeline" at least..

as for the answers what happens after we die, read Robert Monroe books... he is the one that first used OBE (out of body experience) term, and in my opinion he is most objective in this area of research...

cheers

Robert Monroe? Objective? He believed that an OBE was evidence of someone literally leaving their body.. He rejected the biological explanation on personal belief and faith alone, not objective reason or logic..

If you go sleep tonight, and have a lucid dream about visiting your childhood home, have you literally left your body and visited this place? Of course not. You imagined the whole thing.

OBE's are the same thing and are completely explainable with the same physical neuroscience. You imagine leaving your body, nothing more. If something is going on in the same room that your sensory organs can perceive, that will be feed to your brain and manifest in this dreamlike experience as well.

The materialist explanation is lacking in nothing, it explains OBE's to a tee, with no metaphysical attributes required..

Where and how was it that this supposed "consciousness" we supposedly possess was deemed to be so supposedly important?.

Should I venture to guess that it may be in religion and religious beliefs, where we are conditioned to be so narcissistic in assuming we are so important and entitled to eternal life after death?.

I see that many assume that animals do not possess the same type of consciousness and feel that this is more out of convenience than anything else.

This world is a terrible place and full of awful people who assume they are doing nothing wrong according to some silly book written by who knows who?.

In the end all we are is a collection of non living particles and elements and so on, collected long enough for us to get kind of used to being whatever it is we are with our supposed "consciousness" and all, and selfishly trying to live on when our time is up here while being taken advantage of by other selfish individuals who do trade with us while we live.

What would happen in a world without belief in fairy tales?.

I almost look at my eventual death as an adventure.