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I Don't Understand Death, Nobody Does!

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posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Where and how was it that this supposed "consciousness" we supposedly possess was deemed to be so supposedly important?.

Should I venture to guess that it may be in religion and religious beliefs, where we are conditioned to be so narcissistic in assuming we are so important and entitled to eternal life after death?.

I'm not religious at all mate. I arrive at my own conclusions based on my own teachings. Thinking there is a life (or form of continuation) after death is not narcissistic. You can't even prove there isn't. Nobody can. That's the point in this thread.



I see that many assume that animals do not possess the same type of consciousness and feel that this is more out of convenience than anything else.

I think they possibly could. If we move on, so would they.



This world is a terrible place and full of awful people who assume they are doing nothing wrong according to some silly book written by who knows who?.

This has nothing to do with nothing. A complete 'nothing' statement.



In the end all we are is a collection of non living particles and elements and so on, collected long enough for us to get kind of used to being whatever it is we are with our supposed "consciousness" and all, and selfishly trying to live on when our time is up here while being taken advantage of by other selfish individuals who do trade with us while we live.

Supposed consciousness?
Non-living?
Selfishly trying to live on? what would be selfish about it if it actually happens?



What would happen in a world without belief in fairy tales?.

I almost look at my eventual death as an adventure.

Not sure what you mean buddy.




posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Where and how was it that this supposed "consciousness" we supposedly possess was deemed to be so supposedly important?.

Should I venture to guess that it may be in religion and religious beliefs, where we are conditioned to be so narcissistic in assuming we are so important and entitled to eternal life after death?.

I'm not religious at all mate. I arrive at my own conclusions based on my own teachings. Thinking there is a life (or form of continuation) after death is not narcissistic. You can't even prove there isn't. Nobody can. That's the point in this thread.


While we cannot absolutely prove there is not a continuation of consciousness after death, we can show that there is no logical or evidential basis to accept that there is.

The notion contradicts everything we know about consciousness. It is incompatible with the very definition of consciousness. An alternative definition is required to explain it, but no such alternative definition exists that can account for what we already know about consciousness.

Belief in the continuation of consciousness after death is a belief based entirely on faith, and it is proposed by many religions, so I can see where some might get the impression it is a mainly religious belief.
edit on 22-3-2016 by spygeek because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: Ericthedoubter
a reply to: angryhulk

There was nothingness before you were born.

Death is the same.

Hopes,fears,dreams and ambitions....gone.

"Like tears in the rain"


You say we were nothingness before we were born.
Do you base this on our lack of memory before this existence?
Or is it because through presupposition, no earthly no body, therefore no existence?
I see this repeated to often where, it seems memory is the determinant upon which some draw our existence.

There are people that have no memory prior to 5 years old, did they exist before then?
There are Alzheimer's patients that can't remember the previous day, did they exist the prior day?

I just think our lack of memory prior to this earthly existence is not a valid qualifier



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: spygeek


Science fails on this front for now, as much as I fail to ballet dance : )

You trust science and what others say, but I ONLY trust myself and my experiences...when it comes to meditation or death!





Exellent Point
This bares repeating

Experience and knowledge go hand in hand and one with out the other is useless
During physics or chemistry labs, the instructors always stressed that the purpose of the labs was for us to verify for OURSELVES via personal experience, the validity of the physical laws in motion.

Otherwise we could have just foregone the labs and only read the written material and take "other peoples" words on it.

Personal Experience is just as important. Me seeing and experiencing the acceleration of gravity is better than reading about it in a book by others.

People that have had NDEs, practice Astral Projection, or Deep Meditation have shared views in common and you cannot state what they are experiencing until you take it up and do it yourself, and experience it for yourself just like the labs people take. Then you your opinion has more weight as well on the subject.



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: spygeek


Science fails on this front for now, as much as I fail to ballet dance : )

You trust science and what others say, but I ONLY trust myself and my experiences...when it comes to meditation or death!



Exellent Point
This bares repeating

Experience and knowledge go hand in hand and one with out the other is useless
During physics or chemistry labs, the instructors always stressed that the purpose of the labs was for us to verify for OURSELVES via personal experience, the validity of the physical laws in motion.

Otherwise we could have just foregone the labs and only read the written material and take "other peoples" words on it.

Personal Experience is just as important. Me seeing and experiencing the acceleration of gravity is better than reading about it in a book by others.


Acceleration of gravity? Surely you mean acceleration caused by gravity? Gravity does not accelerate.


People that have had NDEs, practice Astral Projection, or Deep Meditation have shared views in common and you cannot state what they are experiencing until you take it up and do it yourself, and experience it for yourself just like the labs people take. Then you your opinion has more weight as well on the subject.


I can't state what they are experiencing, but I can state natural explanations exist that explain what causes their experience objectively.

As you rightly say, knowledge and experience go hand in hand; knowledge can allow you to understand how something happens, experience can allow you to understand what that something feels like.

I don't have to have an NDE to understand its material cause and mechanism, similarly someone who has not learnt about this cause but has an NDE can tell me what it felt like, but not how it materially occurred.
edit on 22-3-2016 by spygeek because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: Informer1958
My understanding of death is, it is a transition.

The minute our harts stop beating and we draw our last breath, our conciseness leaves the body, all your memories are still intact. Immanently a new door opens, we cross over, most of us go home where we were before birth.

My beliefs, and years of research in NDE and ADC which I have had several experiences myself and they are very real.

Science will never be able to prove there is life after death, it's not meant to be. If we all knew what is really awaiting for us after death, then we would never accomplish our mission of life lessons.

I know now that one of my lessons in this life was I had to learn to "forgive". I am a survivor of serious child abuse by my parents.




Sorry you went through that, and I had a rough childhood as well, and it allowed me to see things other people have not learned or see. Therein lies the difference and the reason for these journeys.

People tend to not understand, ignore or brush off others perspectives and experiences and it confuses or angers them. The solutions seem so simple to them but to others it is not, and perhaps, they need to be reborn to experience what others have gone through in order to understand. I am not pointing fingers because applies to me as well.



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
I agree with the author of this thread that our knowledge of death is somewhat limited. We know about the physical side of things, but not the non-physical.





Good Post
Our understanding using the tool of science has nothing to say about the afterlife because it is a study of only what we can see and measure.
Where the biological body stops and breaks down is also where our current understanding in the physical sciences stops.

I have an opinion that we are multidimensional in nature where are "spirit" exist at a much higher frequency not measurable by any instruments we have today.

Gamma Rays, Xrays, and Ultra Violent light exist at much higher frequencies and well beyond the range for the biological body to see them.

It was only because of cause and effect rather than sight and feeling that we were able to discover their existence and devise instruments to measure them.



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: Skush
If there is anything after death what's to say that you'll find it pleasing? A religious person could live their whole life doing what is "right" to get to Heaven only to die, get there and end up hating it. Now they're stuck there for eternity, Heaven becomes their Hell. Plus, I imagine it'll be pretty crowded by now and I'm not much of a people person.

I can't imagine anything after death that I wouldn't eventually get bored with so actually I hope there isn't anything after death.


If you get a mind wipe but are still "You" it will be like the first time every time but because your baggage behind you is different, you may not like the song as much or perhaps even more because you now carry a different perspective and attitude
edit on 22-3-2016 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:28 PM
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I wonder if that light that shows up is the last bit of light, or photon you see, it does look like the inside of a pupil.

Would be neat though, if there was some sort of substance that exudes out of the body, at death, other then lose bodily functions, and that the substance fades or disperses some where to be used again, like the Sun or a Black Hole, traversing the bounds of infinity and emptiness in a single bound.

For me find out and show an tell, but it would never leave my grave.

edit on 22-3-2016 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: angryhulk


Reincarnation is regarded as an everyday matter of fact truth that is learned and accepted from birth just as the grass grows, flowers bloom, humans are reborn. I don't know how the western world got so off track.





Good Post
There are more examples of birth and rebirth, cycles and change here on earth, than there is of extinctions and permanent loss.



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
I'm still amazed that we, as a human beings, still believe in things that have no proof or evidence to their existence. this is in direct opposition to our logical and critical thinking skills, which by the way, is the true reason why we have kept the human population from becoming extinct, and not the belief in mythical beings.


If we took that approach in the early years, we would not have airplanes, rockets and computers today.
When the Wright Brothers were first experimenting with flight, the majority of the public were laughing at them because their tools of science then said only birds can fly.

Columbus and Galileo were laughed at as well.

Science is only a tool and knows nothing like any tool but only how we use it.
Some wish to treat science dogmatically like a religion though in saying, we know all there is to know now, so lets close the books on further exploration in all directions possible.



posted on Mar, 22 2016 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: angryhulk

I could supply 10 sources and you would tear apart every single one of them because you're confident in your beliefs, and that's fine, but I don't want to chase my tail arguing with you throughout the life of this thread.

You're query was to describe something non-physical that existed. I provided a link which I believe is proof a mans non-physical entity existed.

Moving on...



I think spygeek is a perfect example of the proof and reason for reincarnation and the cycle of rebirth

He has his beliefs and others have theirs and the only way he would be able to see a different perspective is from being reborn along a path similar to theirs.

I mean, I hope he realizes people do believe and have their own opinions as well that are opposed to his.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 12:28 AM
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Woah, tough crowd..


originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: angryhulk

I could supply 10 sources and you would tear apart every single one of them because you're confident in your beliefs, and that's fine, but I don't want to chase my tail arguing with you throughout the life of this thread.

You're query was to describe something non-physical that existed. I provided a link which I believe is proof a mans non-physical entity existed.

Moving on...



I think spygeek is a perfect example of the proof and reason for reincarnation and the cycle of rebirth


Of all the things I've ever been called, I think this is my favourite.. xD

How on earth can I be a perfect example of proof of reincarnation?


He has his beliefs and others have theirs and the only way he would be able to see a different perspective is from being reborn along a path similar to theirs.


I am quite capable of seeing from a different perspective, won't be accepting the perspective as fact without at least a logically sound explanation, and preferably some level of conclusive evidence, though..

If I have to be reborn as a person who believes in reincarnation, then clearly it cannot be objective fact and no claims about it being reality have anything but faith to back them up..


I mean, I hope he realizes people do believe and have their own opinions as well that are opposed to his.


Obviously people have differing and opposing beliefs and opinions to my own, I'm not denying anyone that right..

When people start making claims of fact without basis, that's when I will jump in and point out there is no basis for them. It's not their beliefs I have a problem with, it's the unjustified claims and arguments from assertion people are making.
edit on 23-3-2016 by spygeek because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 01:18 AM
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So, in this vein, the only evidence (not proofs) we have are our own personal experiences, and the second hand evidence (essentially hearsay) by communication with others about their experiences. Third hand evidence is reading about the experience of others and is probably the most unreliable information because there is no feedback.

An open mind begs for corroborating your personal experience, but you can only get that by trusting and evaluating the second hand and third hand evidence. This is the conundrum we all face, and the reason why there is such a split in the opinions as to life after death, or not. While it may seem obvious, the truth has the unfortunate side effect of being removed from the entire evaluation.

It is such a personal thing, we should not bicker about who is right or wrong, but accept for yourself what you believe.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 01:48 AM
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a reply to: angryhulk
What is death; as you understand it "in the classical sense" (physical, rhetorical, dramatized/sensational)?



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 02:52 AM
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Objectively speaking, death is the cessation of all biological function. It is the end of biological life.

The claim that there is life beyond death requires that life be redefined as something non-biological, non-chemical, and non-physical.

This redefinition is not logically possible.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: spygeek

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Where and how was it that this supposed "consciousness" we supposedly possess was deemed to be so supposedly important?.

Should I venture to guess that it may be in religion and religious beliefs, where we are conditioned to be so narcissistic in assuming we are so important and entitled to eternal life after death?.

I'm not religious at all mate. I arrive at my own conclusions based on my own teachings. Thinking there is a life (or form of continuation) after death is not narcissistic. You can't even prove there isn't. Nobody can. That's the point in this thread.


While we cannot absolutely prove there is not a continuation of consciousness after death

I got spygeek to say this, yay!




The notion contradicts everything we know about consciousness. It is incompatible with the very definition of consciousness. An alternative definition is required to explain it, but no such alternative definition exists that can account for what we already know about consciousness.

I was under the impression that scientists were working with a number of theories surrounding consciousness. Can you provide a conclusion?



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 03:02 AM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: angryhulk
What is death; as you understand it "in the classical sense" (physical, rhetorical, dramatized/sensational)?


Nothingness. Buried. You know, that sort of thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: spygeek
Objectively speaking, death is the cessation of all biological function. It is the end of biological life.

The claim that there is life beyond death requires that life be redefined as something non-biological, non-chemical, and non-physical.

This redefinition is not logically possible.




Ah, but you cannot bring logic into a spirit fight. Nor can you do the reverse.

It is a personal thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2016 @ 03:05 AM
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originally posted by: spygeek
This redefinition is not logically possible.


You can't prove that.




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