Black students advocate for white genocide/suicide during Harvard debate

a reply to: TheBulk

I think its more of a thought experiment than an actual call for whites to kill themselves. Kind of disturbing that people would want you to die because of your race, right? Unfortunately there are a lot of individuals of different races who think this way. No one race has a monopoly on bigotry.

originally posted by: THEatsking
It's a debate. It doesn't need to be based on reality.



A great debater can win in a Flat Earth v. Round Earth argument, potentially.

so according to you that makes hate speech ok? k.

originally posted by: JourneymanWelder

originally posted by: THEatsking
It's a debate. It doesn't need to be based on reality.



A great debater can win in a Flat Earth v. Round Earth argument, potentially.

so according to you that makes hate speech ok? k.

in debate courses, it is often assigned to counter arguments using absurdity..for instance, you may decide to choose the blind absurdity..as in how do you stop racism. answer, to force global blindness. then you gotta explain in a convincing way why it is a necessary goal.
the argument here was a test prep on renewable energy, but use absurd arguments.

here is the letter from the university (supposedly) on this specific video

For what it is worth, I sent an email to the president of the University of West Georgia, the school where the two black debaters were studying. His response, in my opinion, is worth sharing so you get the entire context.

Dear Mr. Davis,

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to email me directly concerning the posting of this video clip. We understand the concern surrounding a video posted this week that includes comments made by two former University of West Georgia debate students. While these students participated in a nationally sanctioned debate event in 2012 representing UWG, their comments, or the comments made in any debate, do not reflect the University’s views or values.

We take diversity and inclusion very seriously. We work hard every day to ensure our students, faculty and staff from all backgrounds feel welcome and valued. Our top priority remains fostering the safest learning environment we can in which students can learn, grow and achieve.

As part of that commitment, UWG will not tolerate or allow comments or behavior that incite prejudice or violence against any individual or group. Any student who engages in such behavior will be investigated under the university’s student code of conduct, resulting in appropriate sanctions.

Comments made during debate training or debate events or theater rehearsals are rare exceptions to this policy. College debate programs operate in a manner similar to laboratories, where events like those depicted in the video are closely controlled and monitored. One team presents a position and the other responds, often using extreme arguments to show that a particular point is illogical.

In the case of the 2012 video, the debate centered on energy policy. The first team argued that white people embracing the location of wind turbines in their neighborhoods would be a way to address criticism that racism is inherent in the movement of white populations from urban areas. The former UWG students countered that argument by claiming that the extreme would not be for white people to locate themselves near wind turbines, but rather for white people to sacrifice themselves to remove racism altogether. The purpose of the statement was to show the absurdity of their opponents’ position.

Unfortunately, the purposefully-edited video posted this week does not capture the complete discussion. It includes less than a minute and a half of a debate that lasted more than an hour and a half. It does not show that the first team injected the element of racism. Ultimately, it focuses solely on the extreme points used by one of the UWG students to counter an argument in a sanctioned debate. When taken out of the context of a competition in which one team commonly uses extreme rhetoric to argue against an opponent’s extreme rhetoric, the scenes from the video are shocking. The fact that the debate was not halted and authorities were not notified shows the controlled environment in which the comments were made.

Again, the students’ comments included in the video do not reflect the values of our university. They do not represent beliefs or doctrines we teach to students.

I sincerely hope that by providing the context in which this video is depicted helps restore your faith in our university and in future generations of leaders.

Sincerely,
Kyle Marrero

I think the reason this video then sounded insane is because it was meant to sound insane.

a reply to: SaturnFX

I think the letter he sent you is a type form letter he sends out a lot just changes the name.

What funny is SCience has proved we are all the same "race". This is just another means of control.

originally posted by: JourneymanWelder


so according to you that makes hate speech ok? k.

Despite my dislike of the debate community, I do think hate speech is ok in it. It is a game. I should be allowed to say, kill all white people. In fact, I should be able to say that in the real world, as long as I am not making specific threats of violence. The truth is in debate and the real world, when you make these arguments, they should lose. That is why we should let groups like the KKK speak, the more people hear them, the more the realize how bad their arguments are. Even if a good team can win a offensive argument in a debate round, the reality is it should be much harder to win with that argument.

The problem I have with the debate community is that because it is so progressive it only works one way. Death to whiteness/masculinity/heteronormativity are all not only widely argued, but widely believed by the community. As a straight white man I would hear these arguments and not be offended, I didn't take it as a personal attack, just an argument in a game. But if I was to say death to blackness, I would be kicked out of the community as a racist.

We see this on college campuses all over today, and in the real world. "Free speech, as long as that speech agrees with me!"

In the policy debate community, things have progressed to the next level. The round in the OP was actually quite tame, and seemed to focus on hypotheticals and not personal attacks so much. These ideas of white people and men etc. being bad are now so accepted and prevalent in the debate world, that it is acceptable to personally attack people for them. Instead of whiteness is bad, it is YOU should lose because YOU are white. This is a big difference. And if you defend your whiteness, you are a racist. So you try to distance yourself from being white, or a man, etc. As a result, policy debate, that is suppose to be a platform where any idea can be made, has become a progressive cult where the biggest victim is the champion.

You may think, "who cares it is just a game with a bunch of nerds?" While this may be true, it is important for a number of reasons. The first is that most of these people are influential and wealthy (ironically) and go on to influential jobs such as attorneys, lobbyist, community organizers, or politicians. The bigger reason is that debate hs always been a good predictor of where academia in general will go. What is the norm in academia today, things like safe spaces, censoring of non progressive ideas, etc, was being done 15 years ago in the debate community. Now the debate community is even more radical, and I believe this is a good indicator of what college will look like ten years from now.

Regarding the letter...

Have read the supposed letter but am confused regarding the connection between renewable energy and racism other than racism can likely be harnessed as a perpetual motion machine albeit without being an infinite source of energy.

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: TheBulk
We can only hope that they will graduate with useful degrees in something and not in "Black Studies." A degree with a major in Black Studies cheats the student of a real education and does not provide him or her a skillset that will garner employment at the level the student expected.

LOL too late, here's his LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com...

University of California, Irvine

Bachelor of Arts (B.A.), African American Studies
2014 – 2016

I found this really disturbing in that it seems these young men actually believe in what they're saying.
Such thinking isn't limited to these 2 geniuses either but seems to be a growing idea.
Most troubling is the fact the University did not come down immediately on these 2 and disavow or even make any disclaimer over what they said.
Why? At it's heart this is the logical extension of what is being taught at Universities today: the world's problems are the result of White people and any price they pay is seen as some sort of "justice".

We live in very troubling times.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: TheBulk
We can only hope that they will graduate with useful degrees in something and not in "Black Studies." A degree with a major in Black Studies cheats the student of a real education and does not provide him or her a skillset that will garner employment at the level the student expected.

LOL too late, here's his LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com...

University of California, Irvine

Bachelor of Arts (B.A.), African American Studies
2014 – 2016

Once again, higher education has failed by allowing a student to waste time on African American Studies,
a least-common-denominator feel-good degree of questionable worth. General studies would be a big step up and indicate to an employer that he would not wallow in righteous self pity and victimization or foment rebellion for past sins of the employers distant ancestors.
The other thing I note is a propensity for inner-city mothers to name their children such that they are unable to escape the ghetto. Damiyr is not too obvious but DeAngelo, Latasha, Kinesha, and such mark people even though the mothers think that they are giving their child a unique, classy name. It is almost as bad as the "Yo hablo Espanol" of the Latino community as a result of misplaced pride rather than forcing their children to become more fluent in English which then allows them to become better educated and move out of the groundskeeper/parking attendant jobs. Previous immigrants learned English and were assimilated rather than sitting in a closed community looking macho. Idiotas!

a reply to: [post=20505916]SaturnFX

Thank you for enlightening me, for a moment there I was worried it was
more than just a debate tactic and a wider held opinion.


Thanks for clearing that up.

originally posted by: DelegateZero88
a reply to: [post=20505916]SaturnFX

Thank you for enlightening me, for a moment there I was worried it was
more than just a debate tactic and a wider held opinion.
Thanks for clearing that up.

No worries, yeah, it would be absurd to think that a university was pushing a kill all the white people discussion..but hey, at least you aren't trying to cling to that narrative by posting some totally unrelated racist videos.
...
oh..wait..you are. nevermind.

whats this:

ooh dayum son..seems white people are wanting to kill black people


So, here is where we are at...some students mock debate using assigned absurdity to defend points..requrement to be as outlandish and over the top.
you decide you know better than the students, better than the school, and better than university as a concept because you find some racist asshats in the wild and suggest if one thinks like that, then all think like that no matter how unrelated they are
fine
using your logic, I then must ask..why do you want to lynch black people as I proved using your logic.

now, we done here or are you wanting to drool on the internet a bit longer while demanding the black man is trying to kill you?

Its arguments like the one you are trying to push that will forever make social justice warriors seem sensible by comparison. clean your act up and think sensibly already..stop trying to win internet arguments with strawman and instead seek to become a person of wisdom over noise.

or dont..up to you.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Once I get off my mobile I will reply more.

As I responded earlier I find no problem with hate speech in debate or otherwise. Of course there are racists on all sides that want people of a different race harmed or killed. The problem is debate and a academia find it reasonable to say to kill the "white patriarchy". This is not a couple of random racist like you posted, but institutional positions.

University after university have entire majors dedicated to how evil whites are, and it is universally accepted. That is what makes the video in the op so bad, it's not just random racists saying this, but an I entire institution saying whites should die or submit to others. In addition, blacks are 27 Times more likely to commit violence on whites than the reverse.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: SaturnFX

Once I get off my mobile I will reply more.

As I responded earlier I find no problem with hate speech in debate or otherwise. Of course there are racists on all sides that want people of a different race harmed or killed. The problem is debate and a academia find it reasonable to say to kill the "white patriarchy". This is not a couple of random racist like you posted, but institutional positions.

University after university have entire majors dedicated to how evil whites are, and it is universally accepted. That is what makes the video in the op so bad, it's not just random racists saying this, but an I entire institution saying whites should die or submit to others. In addition, blacks are 27 Times more likely to commit violence on whites than the reverse.

alternatively, the fact that the idea was to use absurdity as a main focus on argument actually shows how black people using extreme racism to justify a position is...well, absurd as the assignment is.
I think its a response fitting of whats going on in universities today, and a sensible one on mocking people who are being racist towards whites. Thats what I got out of this argument.
I imagine people seeking offense will always find it, but the arguments stated purpose tends to demonstrate the opposite.
now then
blacks or poor?
I've been attacked by all types of people in my youth and the common denominator was they were poor ignorant jerks..and black people are largely disproportunately poor, along with a big "thug culture" being sold as the norm. black community of the 40s-60s would cringe at todays young black culture and how backwards thinking and harmful it is.
I dont know the solution..I do know that discussing colors is part of the problem though...and this video mocking racism does a great job showing how absurd the discussion is.

Stealth add:
universities..yeah, what a disaster that is becoming. As a former cheerleader of all forms of higher education, I now see 3 reasons to skip the university experience for todays young. 1) expense..crazy expensive. 2) irrelevant. unless its a STEM field, then the degree is useless, and 3) the useless degrees are moving away from logic to instead reinstitute a regressive segregationist mindset that only demands perpetual victimization mindset.
I guess the culture warriors of the 90s that lost the sex negative wars infested university positions and are now trying to institute their bile onto impressionable minds...thing is, in 5 years when these kids go seeking a job, they will be the ones moaning about outragous student loan bills mixed with no actual jobs for a gender studies degree majoring in non-binary intersectional otter-kin art.

originally posted by: SaturnFX




alternatively, the fact that the idea was to use absurdity as a main focus on argument actually shows how black people using extreme racism to justify a position is...well, absurd as the assignment is.
I think its a response fitting of whats going on in universities today, and a sensible one on mocking people who are being racist towards whites. Thats what I got out of this argument.

I can understand how you could see it that way, and I know my point here is just anecdotal, but being involved in the policy debate community, I can assure you that these students were not being racists towards whites out of irony. The policy debate community is far more progressive than the already progressive universities. This community almost universally agrees whiteness, masculinity, heteronormativity etc. are all evil and must be stamped out. Most don't think that means whites need to die, but rather reject their "whiteness" and admits its evilness.

I imagine people seeking offense will always find it, but the arguments stated purpose tends to demonstrate the opposite.

I am with you here. I even stated in a previous post I don't think this argument was that bad, and certainly not offensive to me. Debate should be a game where any offensive thing can be said so long as it is not personal, and the arguments should be weighed based on merit. What is offensive is that not only does the debate community believe whiteness etc. is bad, but to make arguments endorsing being white or suggesting black sacrafice themselves would get you kicked out of the community.

I am not advocating censoring the argument that whites are evil, I am advocating allowing arguments that says any skin color etc. is evil. AS I said in a previous post, when only one side of an argument is allowed to be heard, a sort of cult like consensus is formed and people start believing these absurd arguments.

blacks or poor?
I've been attacked by all types of people in my youth and the common denominator was they were poor ignorant jerks..and black people are largely disproportunately poor, along with a big "thug culture" being sold as the norm. black community of the 40s-60s would cringe at todays young black culture and how backwards thinking and harmful it is.
I dont know the solution..I do know that discussing colors is part of the problem though...and this video mocking racism does a great job showing how absurd the discussion is.

I agree with everything here except I assure you these students are not mocking racism. I don't think they literally want white people to sacrifice themselves as in kill themselves, but I guarantee they believe whiteness needs to end, and that means white people need to admit that being white is a privilege and evil and reject it and submit to other colors. I have heard this argument time and time again in this debate community.

Stealth add:
universities..yeah, what a disaster that is becoming. As a former cheerleader of all forms of higher education, I now see 3 reasons to skip the university experience for todays young. 1) expense..crazy expensive. 2) irrelevant. unless its a STEM field, then the degree is useless, and 3) the useless degrees are moving away from logic to instead reinstitute a regressive segregationist mindset that only demands perpetual victimization mindset.
I guess the culture warriors of the 90s that lost the sex negative wars infested university positions and are now trying to institute their bile onto impressionable minds...thing is, in 5 years when these kids go seeking a job, they will be the ones moaning about outragous student loan bills mixed with no actual jobs for a gender studies degree majoring in non-binary intersectional otter-kin art.

100% agree. That is why looking at the debate community is so important. Because it is even more progressive than universities in general, it seems to indicate where these universities are going.15 years ago in dbate people were calling for safe spaces, eliminating white judges and debaters, different judging criteria for people of color, and many other crazy things that are now the norm in universities. So when we see just how more crazy debate is today, it shows what are universities may look like in 10 years.

a reply to: TheBulk

And they wonder why cops are killing these holes...

I wonder if those two black students got into college because of their grades or the color of their skin?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

The problem here is that we generalize and stereotype everyone from the actions of a few

Seriously ?

The very name is RACIST.

BLM.

BLACK Lives Matter.

You should do some research on BLM

The only reason there was/is a Black lives matter movement is because In some places in America, Black Lives don't appear to matter as much as white lives. How is calling out a fact in modern America, racist? Since when is speaking the truth ever a problem? I like honesty. Don't you?

Hey You need to stop pointing fingers at white people because apparently black lives don't matter to black people either. Have You been paying attention to the murder rate amongst black men lately? It might surprise You that the majority of crime perpetuated against blacks are by blacks. I know it's shocking "NOT". The white community has problems but We blame the problems on individuals because We believe in personal responsibility and We don't sit around making excuses for why some looser couldn't get ahead in life. If You want to fix the black communities problems then it starts in the home and with the family. I grew up in a broken home but I sure as hell made sure My child didn't have too and that's the first step in making Her life better.

originally posted by: jkm1864

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

The problem here is that we generalize and stereotype everyone from the actions of a few

Seriously ?

The very name is RACIST.

BLM.

BLACK Lives Matter.

You should do some research on BLM

The only reason there was/is a Black lives matter movement is because In some places in America, Black Lives don't appear to matter as much as white lives. How is calling out a fact in modern America, racist? Since when is speaking the truth ever a problem? I like honesty. Don't you?

Hey You need to stop pointing fingers at white people because apparently black lives don't matter to black people either. Have You been paying attention to the murder rate amongst black men lately? It might surprise You that the majority of crime perpetuated against blacks are by blacks. I know it's shocking "NOT". The white community has problems but We blame the problems on individuals because We believe in personal responsibility and We don't sit around making excuses for why some looser couldn't get ahead in life. If You want to fix the black communities problems then it starts in the home and with the family. I grew up in a broken home but I sure as hell made sure My child didn't have too and that's the first step in making Her life better.

Your mixing up several different issues and whipping them all together.

There are problems with Black on Black violence.
There are problems with high crime in poor neighborhoods.
Broken families create children with problems.
There are good cops doing hard jobs.
There are bad cops and elected officials that like to discriminate against minorities.

That's 5 separate issues. BLM adressses the last issue. Bad cops and racist elected officials. We know that's an actual problem that needs to be addressed.

If you research it you'll see that there are organizations and people addresses all of those issues.

this type of thinking is seen all over, even in canada, one day there will be a new race war but this time it will be whites by the looks of things, but this time i dont think equal rights will come again because whites are a dyeing breed ( literly ).

originally posted by: SaturnFX


I think the reason this video then sounded insane is because it was meant to sound insane.

Can you show me a single example of white debaters arguing for black genocide or the genocide of any group? Much less a university defending and REWARDING such arguments?

a reply to: SaturnFX

The video you posted is of two white kids being ARRESTED for basically doing what these students did. This is equality?