Should you pay for Thanksgiving dinner?

Folks,

society seems to revolve around "making money" nowadays. There are those that keep saying "if you want to have a service or product you need to be willing to pay for it". That sounds fair enough, does it? I mean: you can't really expect people to give away their precious time, effort, materials, ideas - for free, now can you?

Or ... can you?

You are at your mother-in-law's house for Thanksgiving dinner, and what a sumptuous spread she has put on the table for you! The turkey is roasted to a golden brown; the stuffing is homemade and exactly the way you like it. Your kids are delighted: the sweet potatoes are crowned with marshmallows. And your wife is flattered: her favorite recipe for pumpkin pie has been chosen for dessert.

The festivities continue into the late afternoon. You loosen your belt and sip a glass of wine. Gazing fondly across the table at your mother-in-law, you rise to your feet and pull out your wallet. "Mom, for all the love you've put into this, how much do I owe you?" you say sincerely. As silence descends on the gathering, you wave a handful of bills. "Do you think three hundred dollars will do it? No, wait, I should give you four hundred!"

This is not a picture that Norman Rockwell would have painted. A glass of wine falls over; your mother-in-law stands up red-faced; your sister-in-law shoots you an angry look; and your niece bursts into tears. Next year's Thanksgiving celebration, it seems, may be a frozen dinner in front of the television set.

This made up anecdote clearly shows us that it is not "money" that drives us. What really motivate us is the well-being of others. Why else would you feel all "warm and fuzzy" when you give away high quality food, try to satisfy your "customers" as good as you can by providing them their favourite dishes, a warm place in front of the fireplace and good wine - for free? Why doing them the honour of using their recipes (a valuable service) - if you could make money selling custom-made food it to them?

When market influences and social impulses intermingle - for example, in the Open Source world - we get a fascinating cross breed of capital(ist) and social(ist). The production is done for free, support is payed for, some of that money is used to sponsor the free users. The predominantly social effort behind Linux for example created the leading operating system across mobile devices, data centers, and in the cloud, and has recently been valued at $5 billion.

So, ATS, what do you think: should we accept the intermingling of social and market norms, should we gradually evolve to a society that is run entirely on social norms - or just the other way around: should we pay our parents for Thanksgiving dinner?

Source

BTW: I will respond to postings in this thread (and of course star those that add meaningful content) but as I have a rather busy day ahead, it may take a while. But by all means, go ahead!

a reply to: ForteanOrg

You realize this comparison is apple's to oranges, right?

This is not a logical comparison.

a reply to: Metallicus

Interesting: why do you think that it is comparing apple's with oranges?

Also: even if it is, do you feel we should work on a society based on the well being of others? So, do you prefer apples - or oranges?

I don't know, but try telling your mother-in-law that you've invited the city's homeless to her home for thanksgiving and see her reaction of the thought of having to roast three turkeys instead of one?
really, what we are willing to to for family and close friends is not an accurate comparison to what we would be willing to do for the nameless faces we pass on the street... and it shouldn't have to be.

a reply to: dawnstar

There is a difference, indeed. How come that you are willing to take care of whomever for money - but not for free? And is it really true what you say - after all, thousands of people work for free as volunteers, write Open Source software, help others filling out forms - total strangers. The homeless in my country are mostly taken care of by say the Salvation Army, volunteers and some Government help. So, is it really true that you are only willing to take care (for free) of family and close friends?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Try inviting 5 of your drunken buddies over to your mother in laws for thanksgiving and see how much she cares about their well being.

LOL

Thanksgiving is once a year , many families rotate who hosts the meal every year and often times more then one person provides all the food and drink..... Aunt Sally makes pie or Uncle Joe brings the wine, etc.

It's really not the same thing as providing a "service" that allows one to support themselves and their family.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Why do you expect your mother-in-law to put on your entire Thanksgiving dinner?

In my family, everyone contribute the family feast in some way - either we all pitch in to bring dishes or we help with the cleanup. In recent years, we've split the family in half, passing off years, but still all contribute.

So your example doesn't work.

We usually make thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter dinners at one of our homes. We do it here a lot since we are now retired but my brother has it at his place sometimes too and my daughters do it once in a while too.

Sixteen of us can eat and take home leftovers for around thirty bucks and what others bring is about ten bucks worth. Everything is made from scratch. We also get a big pot of turkey soup afterwards or a turkey pot pie.

Everything is better than in a restaurant or catered event.

Beware of eating too much pumpkin pie. Study nutmeg. They just happen to have black friday the next day. It is no coincidence.

a reply to: rickymouse

$30 ! Wow......that's amazing....just our turkey was $50 dollars this year, it was an organically farmed bird, but still ....I would say hosting Thanksgiving is at least $200 and that's a low estimate !

a reply to: ForteanOrg

There is a difference, indeed. How come that you are willing to take care of whomever for money - but not for free?

....because, we need money to buy food and pay rent???

And is it really true what you say - after all, thousands of people work for free as volunteers

... I bet they aren't working two jobs just trying to stay alive???

So, is it really true that you are only willing to take care (for free) of family and close friends?

I never said it was all I was willing to help out without charging, but I am the best person to decide just the amount of "charity" I can hand out, be it in the form of time, money, or intellectually..
what, you want to go play with someone's open source programming, lol....do you hate them that much? I only ask because I know that 10 to 1, I manage to so royally screw it up, it would take 10 programming engineers months to figure out how to fix it? We all have limitations on just how much we can help, something we all have to live with. And, well, once people start demanding, or expressing their expectations, will it no longer becomes charity or volunteering but rather just another responsibility placed on us possibly to be despised.

this past holiday season my family ate whatever I could dig up from the freezer, no big special meals, I had neither the money or the heart for it. nor do I have the heart, or the strength of soul to go and volunteer, or the money to waste on gas... and that is just the way it is...

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I'm just glad I don't have a mother-in-law or a wife anymore, good riddance to that drama and may my frozen dinner thanksgivings be marry.

You are right about the needy and those on Social
Assistance getting help from the government in the for of tax dollars and subsidies but rest assured if it was up to me to decided who recived my cut of the tax dollars a very very large amount of them would fall short of the requirements I would impose on them to warrant the help in the first place.

I live in a small town with a crap load of welfare recipients that do nothing but drink and pass out all over the place as well as publicly deficate,urinate, and fornicate in public. So if it was up to me they would all go hungry and be without thanksgiving and they truly give no thanks at all for anything.

Such is not the case for all people in need of assistance just the ones that live here and are the regular "street people" so in short screw everyone but myself and mine.


a reply to: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Athetosthe requirements I would impose on them to warrant the help in the first place.

Would you be so kind to elaborate a bit on that? I'm curious: what do you suggest should be done with the people that you do not help? They can't or won't help themselves. So, should we shoot them, or simply leave them to themselves - so they don't have much choice but to steal and rob? How do you think we should deal with the ones that you do not feel worthy of receiving help?

I live in a small town with a crap load of welfare recipients that do nothing but drink and pass out all over the place as well as publicly deficate,urinate, and fornicate in public.

That for sure sounds like an interesting place

so in short screw everyone but myself and mine.

Do you also expect to be treated likewise by others?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: Metallicus

Interesting: why do you think that it is comparing apple's with oranges?

Also: even if it is, do you feel we should work on a society based on the well being of others? So, do you prefer apples - or oranges?

Because I love my friends and family, but don't give a rat's ass about strangers?

If you decide to put marshmallows on top of the potatoes, you don't deserve a penny.

So, you need money. I was assuming you needed goods and services. Money in itself is worthless, after all. But say you had a basic, steady income, that was given to you, no strings attached. Would that make a difference - e.g. would you then do voluntary work, or would you simply try to obtain more money for yourself?

Considering I have been on both ends of the spectrum, I cooked professionally and now do it as more of a hobby, I would say the major differences are I do not need to turn a profit on holiday meals since I am gainfully employed elsewhere and that it is always my decision what to do with my resources, both time and material.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Money = choice.

Remove the government from charity, stop taking taxpayer money to fund programs which should survive purely on voluntary altruism, and leave that money in the workers' paycheck, and altruism in America would increase. As it stands now, we're taxed to fund a political Meal Ticket, so why in the hell be even remotely altruistic when it merely represents a double dip drag on you?

If you really want to compare that dinner with the structure of payments in society you should know you never talk about price after services or goods have been delivered you will be screwed over.

You should ask your mother in law to help get the groceries for said dinner and then pay for them and no problem arises