Birth Rape

a reply to: Whatsreal

Gosh Ive never heard of that. As far as I know all hospitals here are secular. Even the private ones.
We have universal healthcare.

Gosh that must have been worrying to find out last minute. Would you have changed hospitals had you known?

That was another thing people had put in their signs. Women complaining about being given a certain opinion and having to choose a different doctor or hospital. HOW IS THAT BULLYING???
the logic...

Internet and how other media work give them much more attention than they really need. It's sad, because of those people, the real message is going off-rails. The only thing I can do for support women right now, is just to ignore those people.

I'm not part of the feminist movement, and I don't support as it is right now. But let me tell OP, you won great respect from me. There are no shame to trace a line and this is missing in your movement right now. I support you.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Such a sad thing to even imagine, having your newborn taken from you and murdered.. my heart truly goes out to women in countries where they are treated as inferior. It is why I cannot take the type described in your OP seriously - they think they have problems? Please. We are protected equally under the law and rape is illegal here. And the thing described above is not rape. Stop making problems up! Urgh. Makes me so mad :/ If you want to stand for a good cause, stand up for those women who truly have no rights in places all around the world and be thankful that you are allowed to speak up about it, since they are not.

a reply to: PersonneX

I made another post about the current state of the 3rd wave feminist movement and how I no longer call myself a feminist.
I feel like the movement has gone full retard. Real issues are being ignored for petty issues such as tampon tax and the word rape is used as a casual descriptive word.
Its very frustrating. Perhaps the internet and mass stupidity is to blame.

I am all for equal rights and protecting and saving women from real life struggles. Im even for helping women who really have suffered during the birth process.. but the amount of stupidity that comes with these movement just does my head in.

trying not to go off topic too much but even how the far left is starting to resemble the far right.

sigh.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Mother of five here.

If they do NOT want medical intervention (monitoring, care, delivery by someone educated, licensed and insured) WHY are they in a medical facility.

Raped by a fetal monitor? Maybe the baby wasn't moving down, or fetal heart rate showing distress. Yet mom, after no doubt being EXPLAINED why the monitor was medically necessary, decided to decline a common, safe monitoring process that could ultimately save her child. In a cord prolapse (lack of oxygen resulting in either fetal damage or death) because mom didn't want intervention of any monitoring, would she sue the doctor/midwife? Do we realize that idiots (like the woman pictured above) raise health care for EVERYONE in situations where they opt out of recommended care and the. Later she for the damages their lack of judgment caused.

If a fairly standard monitoring is distinguished as "rape" then maybe they should just deliver on their own (w/out medicinal intervention) and take their chances.

Birth rape? Hmmm

Taco Bell caused me to have bathroom rape.
I had to wear a cup playing sports, and that was molestation by safety professionals.
Once, a doctor listened to my lungs and the stethoscope was cold. I'm a man, but I still have feelings. He raped my nipple area.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune


I feel like there is substance to where you draw the line with consent. Should the mother have to consent if the child is in danger?

I would look at it a different way, consent in the event of life threatening conditions to the baby or the mother should be reasonably presumed. Otherwise that isn't a mother if she doesn't care past her own "rights" to micromanage everything, it's rather a sub-standard human that's using excuses to complain for being a birthing tank.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I agree

a reply to: IvyNeptune

You have a very good take on third wave fem discord. There is a segment of "feminists"'that want every minutae of their existence on their terms with permanent chips placed firmly on their shoulders, with any and all life occurrences viewed thru their "victim glasses."

And I just wanted to say you can get cracked ribs during the delivery of a large baby. My next to youngest was 10lbs, cord presented, head delivered, his broad shoulders caused an emergency situation. I was pushing, Doctor pulling and a nurse hopped on the delivery table and was bearing down pushing the baby downward. My son had no loss of oxygen and as I realized I could have lost him; or he could have had profound developmental issues had the medical team NOT acted as they had, I really was thankful that those ribs got fractured.

So I have a pretty emotional point of view on what I view the idiocy of "womyn" who wrap their medical care in a personal political agenda without regard to outcomes their attitudes can bring.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

OP, I think you did a good job of trying to be sensitive. I have given birth without pain meds twice, both times in an effort to help my child and to recover more quickly.

1. If you have never given birth to a baby, PLEASE understand that you have no clue regarding the intensity of that experience because it is impossible to describe. Therefore, you do not understand the unique vulnerability of the situation.

2. Medical people are capable of reducing a patient to an objective problem to solve by their protocols verses a human being going through an excruciatingly painful mind altering event. They are taught to be clinical. It can lead to women feeling violated.

3. Medical staff often care more about what makes the birth easy for THEM and not for the woman. Take stirrups and so-called "birthing beds" which put the pelvis in positions to cause more pain. You are patronized and told what to do no matter what you wanted. It is disempowerment during a time where you really need to feel safe.

Yes this is traumatic. Some women feel it is a major violation and that is where the word "rape" comes into play. I think they want to get the message across that it felt like a criminal violation to them. It is not technically or legally rape and you do sign off to let them treat you before you go into the situation.

It would be very nice if clinical medical practice had a way to provide a safe birth environment physically, mentally, emotionally and even spiritually. Medicine is still seen as Male Dominated even when an OB-GYN is a woman. The equipment used and designed by people who have never gone through it and want the doctor to be convenienced rather than the woman giving birth be comfortable as possible.

So. They have a point. I think calling it rape is not quite accurate, but a violation of their will and body? Yes. It can be that.

Still, the solution is to make better equipment, better protocols and provide that safe space to do the painful work of "labor."

My two cents.
ETA: I want to be clear that I am affirm believer in medicine and that it is definitely life-saving. I appreciate that fact.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I totally get that it can be horrible and trumatic. Im glad to hear your opinion and your experiences.

My main problem is with the over use of the word rape when its not rape.
Maybe i just take it too personally but it seems insensitive.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

IvyNeptune,

Thank you for making this thread! Ever since I first heard about this absolute nonsense, I have been hoping that you might make a thread on it, since it seemed to be a subject which might appeal to your particular interests.

I see the situation thusly. There have been many times, in the history of some areas in the part of the world which is considered "developed", in which women were treated in a uniformly abominable fashion, that much is in no doubt what so ever. It was not only institutional, but on a national basis, that this treatment was meted out, rendering ladies into a second class position, regardless of their merits as individuals. This was never acceptable, but was seen as such regardless of the immorality of the concept.

However, in the western world at least, there is a general concensus that this difference in treatment IS not acceptable, cannot be justified, and as a result things have changed markedly for the better over the course of the last couple of hundred years. Therefore, it staggers me that with all the effort that has been gone to, all the campaigners who protested genuinely amoral circumstances, inexplicable inequalities down the ages, on behalf of the female of the species, that there are those who believe that the very people who help to bring live children into the world, whose job is to reduce the chances of either the infant or its mother passing away during the birthing, are somehow complicit in a sexual misconduct.

Yes, I am sure that there are nurses, OBGYNs and other professionals in related fields, who have some sort of deviancy, and use their position in life to abuse their patients. I would also like to think that these individuals are dealt with harshly when they are identified. But there is a pretty big difference between rape, that being the act of engaging in sexual activity without the consent of ones partner in that activity, and a medical malpractice, which is what one is dealing with in the event that a doctor has disobeyed ones instructions with regard to how one is to be dealt with.

Nearly every case I have ever heard of, which has been referred to as a birth rape, has been a case in which a woman demanded that she be treated in such a way as to damn near kill herself and/or her child, but has been overridden in the name of good sense. When I was being born, my mother was given an overdose of a drug called pethadine by the doctor. She lost hours of memory, and I have trouble forming short term memory sometimes, because I got the drug as well, and plenty of it. It was not a short labour. Now, my mother did not call that a birth rape. She called it a set of total morons, being really lax at their jobs. To give you some idea of how much of a set of clowns we were dealing with, the fellow who pulled me out of my mothers womb, had set up the forceps incorrectly. They are supposed to cup the skull, like this:

( )

But the way they were set up, was like this:

( (

Yes, when they were applied to my squishy baby skull, they actually indented in one side of my head. That effect, thankfully, sorted itself out in short order. The memory issues, likely caused by the OD that was given to my mother, have not gotten any better. My mother was not raped, and nor was I. But we are both victims of a medical malpractice.

I find the entire concept of birth rape, unless their is sexual molestation afoot, absolutely outrageous, and an exemplar of how much some people crave victimhood.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Yes. I had a job to do and the monitors and plugs distracted me. I refused all drugs and quite alert. The most exciting thing in my life.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Yeah, it's a strong word for sure. I think "violation" is what they are going for and it can feel like that.

Rape is its own horror and a criminal act of violence.

I think these women are correct to share their traumas in the hopes of creating positive change. We can do better than current practices, even in "birthing rooms" in hospitals.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

However this is BIRTH TRAUMA not BIRTH RAPE These women were not raped.

Great thread
Its like when you here a black person call others "'n-word'". Very insensitive.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Don't give to much importance to my opinion: Feminist is a word, and its often use to speak about equality of sex, which is a great cause. But as you now see it, this is not the real (first) meaning of the word...

But, you know what, don't worry about that. Meaning of a word can change, and you got the big edge! You can call yourself a feminist if you want. I think most women think like you, they just speak less than those attention grabbing women.

For the rest, don't worries, I can see behind words. I will alway's say I'm for equitability (not egality) for both sex, in fact, for everybody. I know it's the sames for you. Overmore, I hope you will fight a for little more than equality, I will chalendge you. This is good, societies are like pendulum, they need to be push on side's to keep moving.

Edit: (I should press quotes and not reply, those conversation are going fast) The post I answered:

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: PersonneX

I made another post about the current state of the 3rd wave feminist movement and how I no longer call myself a feminist.
I feel like the movement has gone full retard. Real issues are being ignored for petty issues such as tampon tax and the word rape is used as a casual descriptive word.
Its very frustrating. Perhaps the internet and mass stupidity is to blame.

I am all for equal rights and protecting and saving women from real life struggles. Im even for helping women who really have suffered during the birth process.. but the amount of stupidity that comes with these movement just does my head in.

trying not to go off topic too much but even how the far left is starting to resemble the far right.

sigh.

a reply to: eluryh22



I think what happens with the judge in this video is what happens to many people when they remember their own traumatic experiences.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Thank you for the excellent OP. I was totally unaware of this...(trend?) What a bunch of nonsense. Imagine what these women would be doing if they were aware of every little thing happening when having a kidney removed. I don't have much to add which you haven't already said. Let's hope this women don't harm other women and unborn children through their ludicrous efforts to thwart proper medical care in the birthing process.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune


I feel like there is substance to where you draw the line with consent. Should the mother have to consent if the child is in danger?

Well, everyone has to give informed consent to medical procedures that carry any risk. They are also allowed to change their mind.

Which speaks to your exact point: None of these claims amounts to rape, but many do seem to amount to informed consent violations.

a reply to: andy06shake

Whats next Prostate exam sexual assault?

Only if your proctologist has'nt cut his fingernails for a month.