Birth Rape

a reply to: redhorse

Doctor: I recommend A,B,C,D. Here's what they entail, here are the risks, here are the benefits.

Patient: I'm cool with A,B and D but I really don't feel comfortable with C.

Doctor: Ok. We'll do A,B and D and we'll pay attention to any symptoms that could indicate C and revisit the issue then.

There. How hard was that? Instead, they rush you through the office cattle style, completely ignore your concerns (if they even let you finish what you have to say), don't explain things thoroughly, act like they're taking it personally if you don't want to do something and then try to extort you by withholding treatment if you try to refuse something.

In my case I've got multiple valid reasons NOT to do an invasive procedure. The procedure has no bearing whatsoever on what I need the doctor to do. All he's got is "Because I said so." I don't buy that it's the government forcing them to do this stuff. All they have to do is chart "refused". Case closed. If anything negative comes back due to not having the procedure done it's on me, not them.

In regards to the OP, 'rape' is not the proper term as 'rape' and 'sexual assault' imply some kind of sexual gratification and the medical staff in these cases meant well, they weren't getting their jollies off. But doctors (and nurses) really need to drop the antagonistic, holier-than-thou attitude some of them have and actually try to take patients on a case by case, compassionate basis. Take an extra minute and treat them with the basic respect all human beings deserve.

Bottom line....if someone says stop, you stop. If someone refuses something, you don't do it. They are the ones bearing the consequences at that point. You can try to talk them into it but in the end it is up to the individual what happens to their body.

a reply to: Bedlam

I'm not a doctor? Well duh. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm not advocating for no medical intervention, I'm saying that some things a doc does are to assure they cannot be held liable if something does go wrong, ergo protocols. Do you claim otherwise?

I am not a mellinial. Attack the argument not the person with your patronizing manner. Do you understand that I'm including medical treatment as a rational need here? I gave birth to my second child in an operating theater because he had a heart defect that might need to be immediately operated on.

Have you given birth? Out of curiosity?

a reply to: TNMockingbird

Thanks for sharing your story. You touched on key points I was trying to make.

Honestly giving birth is so scary to me. Ill be wanting doctors to do whatever they can to keep me safe and the baby safe

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Yes. "Safe." That's what I mean as well. Your [TNMockingbird] story is an important one. Women and infants used to die at a much much higher rate, or be injured, etc. Advanced medicine has worked to minimize that risk.

How my use of the term "safe space" became conflated with protests in this context is just weird.

How about a "safe place" - does that sound better? (Not directed at you OP)

Whatever. I agree that it is wise to have advanced medicine available for when things go wrong. My baby would have died without that!!

That being said, unless it's medically necessary, intervention can be minimal, letting women ride through the waves of labor as the body is designed to do. Yes it hurts. Yes transition is mind altering - it is then that a woman giving birth is completely vulnerable. Yes she does need support at that time and observation by a doctor can be life or death.

This is what I am hearing underneath what these women are saying: Can we have medicine with compassion? Is that too much to ask? Or are we just mechanized processes without the need to be treated with respect an dignity, kindness and compassion?

But still, the use of the term rape is the issue. I think the vast majority of us agree that is over the top and legally fallacious.

AB

double post. Sorry

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: s3cz0ne

the sexual intent was more attached to the 'another object' part, I thought the dick part being sexual would be self explanatory.

Fair enough. I'm just a bit annoyed about the whole thing. I highly doubt that the vast majority, 99.99%, are inserting foreign objects into patients for sexual gratification. It's all gotten a bit absurd. Are there a few whack jobs out there? Statistics would say yes. However it is likely fair to conclude that doctors, writ large, are not rapists. This is just one of the most ridiculous things I've heard of in a while.

Pardon my foul or un-PC language. But WHAT THE ****!!!

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Bedlam


Have you given birth? Out of curiosity?

I have a heart. Doesn't mean I can read a 12 lead.

Popping out a kid doesn't make you an OB.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: IvyNeptune

Yes. "Safe." That's what I mean as well. Your [TNMockingbird] story is an important one. Women and infants used to die at a much much higher rate, or be injured, etc. Advanced medicine has worked to minimize that risk.

How my use of the term "safe space" became conflated with protests in this context is just weird.

How about a "safe place" - does that sound better? (Not directed at you OP)

Whatever. I agree that it is wise to have advanced medicine available for when things go wrong. My baby would have died without that!!

That being said, unless it's medically necessary, intervention can be minimal, letting women ride through the waves of labor as the body is designed to do. Yes it hurts. Yes transition is mind altering - it is then that a woman giving birth is completely vulnerable. Yes she does need support at that time and observation by a doctor can be life or death.

This is what I am hearing underneath what these women are saying: Can we have medicine with compassion? Is that too much to ask? Or are we just mechanized processes without the need to be treated with respect an dignity, kindness and compassion?

But still, the use of the term rape is the issue. I think the vast majority of us agree that is over the top and legally fallacious.

AB

Yes the term "rape" in this instance is way overboard. I agree with much of what you have stated. Of course there should be compassion on the part of the doctors. Of course unnecessary medical treatments should always be avoided. The issue at hand seems to be, at least in some cases, that doctors feel certain treatments are necessary in the moment only to find out after that said treatments may not have been called for.

As much as I take issue with big Pharma and the current American healthcare system I generally tend to believe that most doctors, especially during delivery, have their patient's best interests in mind.

Without intervention my wife may have died and possibly my daughter as well. Perhaps I'm too trustful of an industry that I loathe but I have met some excellent human beings. One surgeon in general, I was extremely lucky to have had work on my daughter. She did a procedure at Yale that had never been done on a child of that size. At least not there.

I haven't followed all of your posts in this thread so I can't really comment. I will state, however, that I follow my gut in regards to my daughter's doctors and my gut has yet to fail me.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Bedlam


Have you given birth? Out of curiosity?

I have a heart. Doesn't mean I can read a 12 lead.

Popping out a kid doesn't make you an OB.

You keep repeating that to me like I have somehow claimed it does. When did I say that having a baby made me an OB?
Have you ever had a baby? I mean birthed one? You didn't answer that.

Would you think perhaps, just possibly, that my having birthed a baby qualifies me to know what its like to birth a baby?

Have you read anything else I've said??? I seem to have offended you somehow and its all wrapped up in your erroneous assumption that I am a young person wanting a "safe space" and being anti-medicine when clearly, I'm not.

I didn't ask if YOU had a heart. I asked if it was too much to ask if the process of birthing could have both medicine and compassion.

I think you are being oppositional to what you perceive me to be, and your perception is inaccurate.

- AB

Jesus Christ, all these Social Justice Warrior types are inbred clowns who just love to find new things to complain about. I'm a moderate leftist, and even I have a strong urge to bully them.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: IvyNeptune

Sounds like political correctness gone mental once again.

Whats next Prostate exam sexual assault?

YOU DONT EVEN KNOW , you dont even KNOW!!

www.youtube.com...

Touch a vagina after someone told you "no" and it's rape whether or not you are a doctor - and regardless of whether or not the doctor thinks its necessary. If someone does that to you, why wouldn't you feel raped? Who cares why they did it? You said no -that should have been enough.

Pages and pages of posts saying how much people should just follow their doctor's advice and let them do whatever.....

What you don't get is it's not your choice to make for someone.

originally posted by: Daughter2

Touch a vagina after someone told you "no" and it's rape whether or not you are a doctor - and regardless of whether or not the doctor thinks its necessary. If someone does that to you, why wouldn't you feel raped? Who cares why they did it? You said no -that should have been enough.

Uh, no.

www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/rape

rape 1
Pronunciation: /rāp/

noun
1The crime, typically committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will: he denied two charges of attempted rape he had committed at least two rapes
Synonyms
1.1 archaic The abduction of a woman, especially for the purpose of having sexual intercourse with her: the Rape of the Sabine Women
2The wanton destruction or spoiling of a place or area: the rape of the Russian countryside

verb
[with object]
1(Especially of a man) force (another person) to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will: the woman was raped at knifepoint
Synonyms
2Spoil or destroy (a place): the timber industry is raping the land

BS claims that basically boil down to "I'm an ass & want to make birthing this crotch spawn as difficult as possible for the people legally liable for medical problems by way of saying 'no' to everything" are NOT RAPE.
If you don't like it, maybe feminists could get together and do something useful, like make a push to lift the legal liabilities from doctors, because whether or not you like it, you can turn right around and sue the pants off your doctor for not doing anything after you've been a asshat & stonewalled them from doing their job in the first place.

S# like this is why I just cannot take feminists seriously.

originally posted by: Daughter2

Touch a vagina after someone told you "no" and it's rape whether or not you are a doctor - and regardless of whether or not the doctor thinks its necessary. If someone does that to you, why wouldn't you feel raped? Who cares why they did it? You said no -that should have been enough.

Pages and pages of posts saying how much people should just follow their doctor's advice and let them do whatever.....

What you don't get is it's not your choice to make for someone.

Why is it that the legalities only matter for the feminists and not the other party?

A visit to tumblr searching feminism is enough for me, as a free thinking woman, to want to barf. No you weren't raped by having a fetal monitor placed on your baby's head while still in you. I had one because my heart rate dropped. They wanted to monitor my baby too because of this to watch for signs of distress from him. Some of this feminist movement also would slam me because I choose to be a stay at home mom now (I have three kids it's the cheaper option for us). They also think men should die so screw them.

I don't talk often about this because I don't want to be perceived as an attention whore but I am a rape survivor. This pisses me off! Screw the modern feminist movement it's not about equality anymore it's about dominance.