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Majestic 12...Only one reference? Not hardly....

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posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Often, whenever skeptics hear the term "Majestic 12", they immediately leap on the briefing document that many regard as fake....

Well, I just wanted to make a brief post for those fairly new at looking at this subject, as there are NUMEROUS documents alluding to, or stating the "working group" as MJ-12, NOT just the one document....

I'm actually even leaving out documents that do not have an authenticity rating of "high confidence". So, the ones listed are just those which show appropriate terms, watermarks, format, style, signatures, etc. enough to be regarded as a high degree of being genuine....

Feb. 27, 1942 Memo from FDR to George Marshall
---summary is that there are atomic secrets learned from the study of celestial devices, and that it authorizes Bush (member of MJ-12) to proceed with the project. This establishes Dr. Bush as working with the devices.

Mar. 5, 1942 Memo from George Marshall to FDR
---summary is that this is the order that sets up the IPU (Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit), the precursor to what will become MJ-12.

Feb. 22, 1944 Memo from FDR to "the special committee on non-terrestrial science and technology"
---summary is Dr. Bush being mentioned, and mentions using recovered tech (believed by many to be the 1941 crash retrieval, predating Roswell).

July 5, 1947 Memo from Dr. Bush to FDR
---summary is status report of the working group, and shows the "Top Secret/Eyes Only Majestic Twelve" classification.

ADDENDUM HERE: this next document, July 16, 1947 Air Accident Report by General Twining.
---summary is Twining's description of the INSIDE OF ONE OF THE DISCS!!! Read it, and think of Lazar's description...
Note: Nothing indicating MJ-12, but I wanted to point it out.

July 22, 1947 CIC/IPU Report
---summary is recovery of airborne objects in NM, EVEN GIVING COORDINATES

Sept. 2, 1947 Report to General Cabell and Air Materiel Command
---summary is details of the discs! and again shows MAJIC classification

Sept. 19, 1947 Memo from Hillenkoetter to MAJIC
---summary is for starters, the DEFINITION OF THE MAJIC anagram....Military Assessment of the Joint Intelligence Committee! It establishes WP as the place for biologics (as supported by the SOM1-01 security manual) and recaps the efforts so far.

Sept. 19, 1947 Twining's Report
---summary is that it recommends establishing Majestic

Sept. 24, 1947 Memo from SoS Marshall to the President
---summary is a suggestion that Twining present the findings of MJ-12 to the Director of the newly created CIA.

Sept. 24, 1947 Memo from Truman to SoD Forrestal
---summary is that this is where Truman formally declares that the group will be called Majestic Twelve.

Sept. 27, 1947 SoS Marshall to Carl Humelsine
---summary is use of MAJIC classification, to sign secrecy agreement, evidently bringing him in on the project.

There are others of course, from 1948 and on, but I think this is sufficient enough to show my point. If you want to read any of these docs, go to www.majesticdocuments.com... , these are all in the first section (arranged by date) along with some other docs. My main point here, was to show that decrying one document as fake doesn't really mean much as there are several documents all showing the existance of Majestic.




posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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It'd definitely be hard to disprove the documents' authenticity, but don't all of them come from some unidentified source, Gazrok?

If so, unless we could all, outside of the group of researchers that possesses them, be able to test the documents' authenticity ourselves (not necessarily me or us, per se, but you get what I mean) their authenticity ratings could very well be null, void, and not matter at all.

Basically, my question is, have these 'leaked' papers been tested by any researchers outside of the Stanton Friedman/Wood Sr. & Jr. group?

Sorry if my question is easily answered. I've only visited the majesticdocuments.com site briefly enough to read the papers with the highest ratings.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:59 PM
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Pretty much, yes. But other than the physical docs themselves...it's pretty easy for others to research the other criteria...such as signatures, format compared to other documents, letterhead, terminology, references in the archives, corroborating events mentioned, etc. I've done this for a few of them, and I'm still suitably impressed. Granted, I'm no expert in this field though.

However, again, the main point was to show that there are MANY, not just one alleged document, pointing to this group...



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Honestly I think the MJ12 organization was split up after the project blue book closed down. That doesn't mean that the united states government still is actively involved with UFO's and ET's. I just don't think MJ12 isn't the type approach they would take toward this type of thing now'a days.

Right now suspect the Navy and Airforce working together in studying UFO's and ET's. What happened is back in the 1940's when we first discovered that they were real the government freaked out. Now its a whole different situation and we no longer consider it a threat to national security. Now we just use their technology to our benefit.

I am sure the only organization on this planet that has authority to govern anything, is some type of agency to enforce intergalactic laws, regarding airspace, abductions, trade, toxic waste. that kind of stuff.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Wow, thanks for posting this. I have frequently stated that there are other traces and references to MJ-12 in completely authentic/official documents but did not have any specific references to relate to when debating with skeptics.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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And those are just the 1942-1947 references...(it was getting close to bedtime, hehe...)


I'd initially agree with the idea that it may not be called Majestic anymore, but then again, there are other modern references to it too. One example that springs to mind is the Lazar W-2. Regardless of what one thinks of his story, the W-2 has been shown to be genuine. It shows that for at least a short time, he did some work for the Department of Naval Intelligence, and that the employer coding was prefixed "MAJ", a common prefix denoting MJ-12 in older docs.

In the "Shadow Government" thread, many members state how such an entity could and likely does exist, including how they fund themselves, stay on top of things, etc. and independently of Congress or the President (at least nowadays)....

I don't think the Navy or the Air Force could keep a secret like this for so long. It had to be compartmentalized, and according to the paper trails, that's exactly what happened. It was compartmentalized within this small group, who then became an entity in and of themselves, when Presidents stopped playing ball.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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This is very intresting. Thanks for bringing them up Gaz


I always thought that the Majestic 12 were grouped after Roswell.

Can you link me to the site you got them from please.

sorry if i missed it.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
July 5, 1947 Memo from Dr. Bush to FDR
---summary is status report of the working group, and shows the "Top Secret/Eyes Only Majestic Twelve" classification.


Sept. 2, 1947 Report to General Cabell and Air Materiel Command
---summary is details of the discs! and again shows MAJIC classification

Sept. 19, 1947 Memo from Hillenkoetter to MAJIC
---summary is for starters, the DEFINITION OF THE MAJIC anagram....Military Assessment of the Joint Intelligence Committee! It establishes WP as the place for biologics (as supported by the SOM1-01 security manual) and recaps the efforts so far.

Sept. 19, 1947 Twining's Report
---summary is that it recommends establishing Majestic

Sept. 24, 1947 Memo from SoS Marshall to the President
---summary is a suggestion that Twining present the findings of MJ-12 to the Director of the newly created CIA.

Sept. 24, 1947 Memo from Truman to SoD Forrestal
---summary is that this is where Truman formally declares that the group will be called Majestic Twelve.



I'm a bit confused by the docs I've culled from your list.

In July 1947 the Document shows the Top Secret/Eyes Only Majestic Twelve but MJ 12 wasn't called MJ12 until Sept. 1947. Also, in Sept. it is first recommended that MJ12 be established yet documents recognizing the group exist from a few months earlier.


It takes the gov't forever and a day to do everything but they went from recomendation to establish MJ-12 to formal acknowledgement in 5 days?

Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt that the gov't has some secret groups working on this stuff. I just find the timeline a bit odd.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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I should have clarified that. Many of the docs were LATER stamped with the MAJIC classification. This is commented on by the researchers.

As for timeline...consider this. Prior to July 1947, there were NO implications of breaking out the Air Force, establishing the CIA, etc. and yet after Roswell and later that month, we see the Security Act to do just this! Hell, it took more time post 9/11 to get the legislation enacted to form the Dept of Homeland Security! So ask yourself, what important event could have necessitated the rapid reorganization of the entire defense department, almost overnight?

As for the name of the group... The group already existed for some years, and close to the time acknowledged, started being referred to as the Joint Intelligence Committee, Truman just made it "official"...


Can you link me to the site you got them from please.

sorry if i missed it.


Check the first post of the thread...

[edit on 12-1-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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as I said, I was confused. you've cleared that up.


maybe you can answer this question.

why on earth are so many of these classified docs photocopied on bad angles?



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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I'm assuming, that if legit, they were likely copied or photographed in a hurry and done on premises of where the document was kept. Getting the print to be legible was more important than how well it looked. Chances are, the one copying them wasn't exactly able to check them out or anything, and had to work quick. Most are probably photographs (prior to the good old copier) and anyone who's photographed papers knows, you almost always get some weird angles, even if it looked good in the viewfinder....legibility and no glare wins out over aesthetics each time, hehe....



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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I was actually kidding.

I'm curious tho, since you seem to have a ton of knowledge in this area, how much of the ufo stuff out there you actually believe. I'm not a disbeliever in ufo's and alien life but I find most of the stories and the repeat visits to be a bit on the silly side. As stated earlier, I do believe the gov't has info that they don't give up and I do believe that ufo's buzz us from time to time.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Ill admit im not very familiar with the majestci documents but right off the bat any mention of the name Bush makes me distrustful ( gee don’t know why ) any way I did some research on Vannevar Bush just wondering if he was any relation to the person who I distrust and ive got to say if these documents are fake they sure as hell used a good person to use for the hoax. After reading Vannevar Bush’s article from 1945 on the memex ill say im impressed with this guy and greatly disappointed with my old history teachers for never mentioning him. Below is an excerpt from the article he published in 1945, to me it sounds like exactly how a scientists from 1945 would describe the workstation Im sitting in front of typing this, and remember this is 1945! Seems odd that this guy can describe a modern day computer so well ( minus the microfish thing of course but that would be hard given Tv’s where still pretty rare and new in development at that time having been around for less then 20 years )



The memex is "a device in which an individual stores all his books, records, and communications, and which is mechanized so that it may be consulted with exceeding speed and flexibility" (102). A memex resembled a desk with two pen-ready touch screen monitors and a scanner surface. Within would lie several gigabytes (if not more) of storage space, filled with textual and graphic information, and indexed according to a universal scheme. All of this seems quite visionary for the early 1930s, but Bush himself viewed it as "conventional" (103).


Consider a future device for individual use, which is a sort of mechanized private file and library. It needs a name, and to coin one at random, ``memex'' will do. A memex is a device in which an individual stores all his books, records, and communications, and which is mechanized so that it may be consulted with exceeding speed and flexibility. It is an enlarged intimate supplement to his memory.

It consists of a desk, and while it can presumably be operated from a distance, it is primarily the piece of furniture at which he works. On the top are slanting translucent screens, on which material can be projected for convenient reading. There is a keyboard, and sets of buttons and levers. Otherwise it looks like an ordinary desk.

In one end is the stored material. The matter of bulk is well taken care of by improved microfilm. Only a small part of the interior of the memex is devoted to storage, the rest to mechanism. Yet if the user inserted 5000 pages of material a day it would take him hundreds of years to fill the repository, so he can be profligate and enter material freely.

Most of the memex contents are purchased on microfilm ready for insertion. Books of all sorts, pictures, current periodicals, newspapers, are thus obtained and dropped into place. Business correspondence takes the same path. And there is provision for direct entry. On the top of the memex is a transparent platen. On this are placed longhand notes, photographs, memoranda, all sort of things. When one is in place, the depression of a lever causes it to be photographed onto the next blank space in a section of the memex film, dry photography being employed.

There is, of course, provision for consultation of the record by the usual scheme of indexing. If the user wishes to consult a certain book, he taps its code on the keyboard, and the title page of the book promptly appears before him, projected onto one of his viewing positions. Frequently-used codes are mnemonic, so that he seldom consults his code book; but when he does, a single tap of a key projects it for his use. Moreover, he has supplemental levers. On deflecting one of these levers to the right he runs through the book before him, each page in turn being projected at a speed which just allows a recognizing glance at each. If he deflects it further to the right, he steps through the book 10 pages at a time; still further at 100 pages at a time. Deflection to the left gives him the same control backwards.

A special button transfers him immediately to the first page of the index. Any given book of his library can thus be called up and consulted with far greater facility than if it were taken from a shelf. As he has several projection positions, he can leave one item in position while he calls up another. He can add marginal notes and comments, taking advantage of one possible type of dry photography, and it could even be arranged so that he can do this by a stylus scheme, such as is now employed in the telautograph seen in railroad waiting rooms, just as though he had the physical page before him.




I read a good portion of the docs and found some of them quit interesting if they are truly real then the whole thing is quite scary. However when looking at the associated photos one of them stands out to me as familiar.

209.132.68.98...

Isnt the guy in the tux an actor? I could swear ive seen that exact scene in a movie like war of the worlds or something similar.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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I believe that some of this stuff makes sense,Why els would the government deny area 51 then say it was real after being sued. Why els would they release documents with half of it black out. I believe that MJ-12 and Roswell were the real deal, but the story gets blown out of proportion by people like David Ike.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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I have difficulty believing a lot of the abduction encounters that don't have other evidence. Not to say they aren't truthful, just that they aren't substantial enough to be used as an argument for ET existence.

I'm pretty much extremely wary of anyone professing to be able to capture UFOs on film over and over again, have conversations with the EBE's, etc. etc.

I do believe the Hill Abduction case though, mostly due to the star map issue, as well as the way it all came about...and it was prior to the abduction hype in pop culture.

I'm more inclined to believe documents than anything else, especially when they jive with other documents and sources, all saying the same thing. I'm also more inclined to believe ex-military officers, especially when they were in a likely position to know about such things. (i.e. Corso, though minus the little ego trip he goes on in his book, hehe...)

I believe that the UFO CoverUp Live! specials in the 80s, were originally part of a plan of disclosure, that then went awry. Indeed, in many markets (including mine), much ado was made about news coverage to happen after the airing, etc. and then we had 1) the program terminated about 20 min prior to ending, with an infomercial then played, and 2) none of the promised local news interviews with reaction to the broadcast (which was hyped during the commercials). Man did that leave a taste in my mouth, but more than anything, it drove home that someone, somewhere, stopped that from happening. I also believe that these specials (as aired) had some disinfo in there as well.

I believe older UFO photos over most modern ones...simply too much hoaxes out there, not so much in the early days (though they were there).

I believe that it can easily be proven that the government has knowledge of UFOs and has covered it up, in same cases, laughably.... Indeed, one of my pet projects is a paper doing just that, using ONLY documents obtained from the FOIA (so basically using docs the government itself says are authentic). Eventually, when I finish it, I'll post it here (of course, with thousands of pages to go through, may take a while in my spare time, hehe...)

I believe in the Roswell retrieval. There's just too much evidence there, and the USAF really screwed the pooch when they tried to dismiss it. Their report on Roswell was laughable in the extreme, especially when they 1) acknowledged that there were BODIES that needed to be explained, and then 2) explained those bodies as parachuting dummies which a) had nothing to do with the Mogul project said to be the crash, and b) were used in tests about 5 years AFTER the Roswell crash



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Given my previous post is so long people might overlook where i asked about the photo

209.132.68.98...

Anyone besides me get the feeling they have seen this exact photo in a movie before ( same people and everything )



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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Isnt the guy in the tux an actor? I could swear ive seen that exact scene in a movie like war of the worlds or something similar.


Nope, though I can picture the actor you're thinking of, but don't recall his name.

They're real enough people, and a little probing of the members will come up with some other pics from other points in their lives, etc.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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I dont want to jump on the skeptic bandwagon but i did run across this site

www.csicop.org...

It points out some anomolies in the typeset and authentication of these documents pointing them to being fake. I however have come to the point i dont know what to beleive anymore , allthough i do beleive in some things ive seen.



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 03:49 PM
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csicop = Klass...
Known debunker...as another member put it, Klass could have a UFO zoom over his head and still swear it was a frisbee, hehe... Also, remember, I mentioned that there are some documents that don't register as authentic as others... The ones I cited above are those that seem the most credible, using a set criteria of authentication...(you can read about it on the link in the first post)

On the MJ-12 group pic....I think I can identify at least the other three, and they aren't actors...

Left to Right
1. Admiral Louis Denfield
2. General Vandenberg
3. ???
4. General Twining



posted on Jan, 12 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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thanks gazrok. I was curious as to where you stood on this. While I haven't done anywhere near the amount of research you have, I believe most of the same things as you do. I find those repeat visitations to be nonsense and I never could understand the abduction claims some people make.

Personally, I think we will see some kind of acknowledgement in my lifetime, either prior to an actual encounter or, more likely, to save face when proof shows itself in an manner that would be impossible to cover up.

[edit on 12-1-2005 by Crakeur]




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