Project IX: USAF Stealthy Transport Aircraft

a reply to: Sammamishman

Radar jamming on board the helicopters or from another source. That intersting.
As far as hearing anything. I appreciate what info you always do provide.

That's probably why I felt Florida then.

Grey, those planes are not going to the cia strip off Highway 6. They are at the f-117 testing base. West of goldfield.

The one is returning to Nellis AFB now with 7700. And the other is loitering now near Tonopah.

That's all don't want to thread drift. So I'll stop here. But Tonopah and stealth gets my attention.

a reply to: Bigburgh

The stealth shaping and low level insert were the most effective counter on the raid. You're not stealthing a rotor, not completely. But you can, as Sam said, delay detection somewhat.

Noise as well. Not that the Blackhawks are as noisy as a Huey, but when I was in flight ops we could hear the Huey as they made the radio call that they were 20 miles out some days.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thank you both. I kinda get it. I had to think back to WWII when some planes were all wood still. Not easily detected by radar. And trying to equate that with newer carbon fiber materials.

Not fully stealth, but a good reduction in radar signatures makes more sense to me. I Google'd some articles.

a reply to: Bigburgh

I think another source

a reply to: Bigburgh

The reason for wooden built planes was not due to radar sigs or anything so impressive it was due to here in blightly we were short of metals but had a load of coachwork/furniture skilled people and lots of wood meaning we had cheap ways of building planes and quite often it didn't matter if a few bullets went through a wing so long as it didn't hit anything important and probably the German bullet would cause the same damage with metal or just fabric over wood.

a reply to: Maxatoria

Thanks. Yes I was aware of the reasons for the materials and builders of the time. But thanks to the history channel😆
The planes had an advantage with radar. And considered by todays standards as the first stealth by coincidence.

I know I know.... the history channel. 😉

Another thing with fabric and plywood planes,explosive rounds would usually pass straight through where an aluminium airframe would open up like a can of Sardines..With NG getting the B21 I would think the others are throwing projects out there to get a buck or two.

a reply to: gfad

Have any of you heard the rumors of these being used in the Gulf? The contingency plan, had the opening Apache raid on the radars failed, was to insert SOFs and demo the site. Held as a standby standby I'm sure, since bombers we already in the air from CONUS and a corridor had to be opened.

However, following a repelled helo attack, another wave of lumbering CH-47s or UH-60s would have been suicide and many wonder how exactly SOCOM planned to insert their forces.

Later in the war, a few folks got a view of two of these transports on the ground and have spoke about it. If my memory serves correct they were Marines on site security. I don't doubt that this has been a capability all along, and is being used today.

a reply to: aholic

I don't doubt that this has been a capability all along, and is being used today.

I'm 100% in agreement with you on this one. Between the kinds of missions I know they were using MC-130's for in the 1980s, to the ripples that Operation Eagle Claw sent through the DOD, I am almost certain that there was some sort of stealth VTOL/extreme STOL tactical transport program initiated in the mid-1980s as a black counterpart of sorts to the V-22.

As to the sighting in the middle east, were there any descriptions of what the aircraft looked like? I like to think that the classic lift Northrop-looking fan-augmented flying wing design that is seen in all of the speculative Senior Citizen renderings is what actually flew (and possibly validated the lift fan concept for the JSF, even if Senior Citizen likely used a gas-driven fan, which Northrop and BAE happened to be developing for their JSF entry at the time). In terms of who would actually want such a craft, I could easily see something like this being a joint development between the UK and the US for joint use by SOCOM and the SAS, which would make the chance if being a Northrop/BAE collaboration that much more likely.

Then again, I could just as easily see it being a much more conservative craft, something resembling what you might get if you threw the YC-14 and Tacit Blue into the blender.

a reply to: Barnalby

Yeah. The fact that SENIOR CITIZEN dropped off the budget in 93 isn't coincidental, I'm sure. If I'm remembering, the story I heard was that they were a blended wing shape. The particular guy didn't mention any ducted fans etc since it was stationary on the ground and from a distance. But you'd have to imagine it would be as STOL as a Hurc, if not VTOL.

AMC-X also didn't go anywhere. As if it wasn't needed.

I like that though, YC-14 and HAVE BLUE love child!

There was a picture of a render on Tyler Rogaway's old site that looked a lot like the Wichita sighting. Wish I could find it. It was a big flying wing with what looked like desert camo paint and a tank rolling out the back.

a reply to: aholic

SENIOR CITIZEN's fans were supposed to be hidden in its wings, not unlike the Lockheed VARIOUS, so if the various (SENIOR CITIZEN) renders that are out there are true, if one was on the ground with its lift fan doors closed, it would in fact resemble a BWB.

Did the sighting mention their size? I kind of get the sense that the SENIOR CITIZEN concepts would have produced an aircraft somewhere around the size/capacity of a DHC-5, or maybe a C-123 if they were really pushing it.

a reply to: Flipper35

I think I stumbled across the image you were hunting, Interestingly enough, I was browsing the YC-14 on Google images. It's on a page where Tyler was covering the LRS-B.

aviationintel.com...

a reply to: Barnalby

Yeah along those lines. Really just for spec ops, not tactical transpo. Slightly smaller than or similar to a Spartan.

a reply to: Badgermole42

That is the one. When you click on it, it is a little larger. Now that I see it again, it doesn't look so much like Wichita. Looks like a NG design though.