Where is the Bern?

a reply to: interupt42

I honestly can't tell if you're serious in the OP or not. It seems like you have quite a few misconceptions about "Bernie supporters", and those misconceptions are causing the confusion/misunderstandings. I'll be as blunt as possible so we won't have any misunderstandings.

The majority of Bernie's supporters are on the far left wing. In fact, it would be much more accurate to say that the far left wing has been neglected for a long time by the Democratic Party and we will support any candidate that pushes our priorities. Before Bernie decided to run as a Democrat last summer, a lot of the actual left wing progressives were pushing for Elizabeth Warren to run for this very reason. In other words, we're not so much "Bernie Supporters" as we are "Left wing citizens who want someone to take out priorities seriously".

And contrary to what the right wing media says, Pres Obama is not left wing. He's a disappointment to many segments in the actual left wing, especially those of us who wanted single payer health care, living wages, climate change legislation, comprehensive immigration reform, massive green technology investments, ending the War on Drugs, a fair criminal justice system, mandatory labeling of GMOs, prosecution of the Bush administration for torture and the Iraq War, increasing the social safety net, ending our perpetual war cycle and constant military "interventions", etc. So even if it wasn't Bernie, we still would've been supporting some actual left wing candidate.

I'm mentioning this so you'll understand why the vast majority of us would never vote for Trump. A lot of you seem to think we support Bernie because he's against the Democratic status quo and is anti-establishment. But that's simply not the case. Just look at the actual policy positions I mentioned in the last paragraph. Now be honest, what are Trump's positions on those? In fact, what are the Republican Party's positions on those? Not to mention, Trump's comments and proposals against minorities, particularly Muslims and Latinos/Latinas. And let's not forget that the GOP seems to have a fetish for attacking other minority groups like LGBT citizens, as well as being against abortion, being against unions, loving to gut social programs, gleefully calling for more wars, etc.

So why do you think we'd ever support Trump and the Republican Party? The Republican Party is against nearly every policy position we care about. Then again, I'm starting to doubt that many people here are exposed to the ideas of the actual left wing. So I guess it's not surprising that you don't know what are priorities really are. Instead, it seems like most of you listen to what right wingers claim our desires and policies are, which only reinforces the misunderstandings.

As for supporting Hillary. (Sigh...) I've posted quite a few times on ATS just how much I disdain her. But I've also mentioned several times that the only way I could bring myself to vote for her is if Trump is the GOP's nominee. It may not matter to many of you, but I'm an actual Muslim. Trump and his spokeswoman's comments about Muslims completely burned the bridge with me. And I'm blessed to have a lot of good Hispanic and other immigrant friends, so the GOP's bs anti-immigrant policies piss me off. And I'm strongly pro-worker and pro-social safety net, so the GOP's constant dismantling of social programs pisses me off. I think you get the point. There's no way I can let the GOP get the presidency again without fighting it. So yes, I'd rather Hillary over any GOP candidate, especially after all of the freakshow policy positions GOP candidates took during this cycle's debates.

As for the other Bernie supporters, most of us are working on phase 2. That's getting as many actual left wing candidates elected in the other elections as possible. If they're Dems, that's fine. If they're Green Party, that's fine as well. If anything, this political cycle has finally made large segments of the actual left wing realize the truth: we're either going to have to drag the Democratic Party back towards the left wing or we're going to have to split with them. This "Third Way/Triangulating/Neoliberal" BS has to die. And if we can pressure Hillary to put actual left wing progressives in her Cabinet, that will help too.

Did that answer your questions (assuming you were serious)?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So why do you think we'd ever support Trump and the Republican Party?

I think you missed my point. I don't expect Bernie supporters to support Trump or The republican party. However, I don't expect him to support Hillary either because she is everything he is supposedly fighting against.

The point I was trying to make was that Bernies biggest battle is Hillary at this point in time and not Trump. When I created this thread most of the Bernie supporters were going full force in Trump attacks and ignoring Hillary.

I felt it was a strategical hiccup to not go force on her from the beginning.


In regards to Trump , I think he is full of it. However I would take him over Hillary as she already has proven to be a corporate prostitute,liar, under Investigation by the FBI, and a billion other scandals with her an her family.

While trump is also a liar and being sued he is not under criminal investigation he has not been in office yet and has a .00000001 chance of maybe breaking the cycle. Good or bad is too be seen, but I'm willing to take the chance with him over her as he will need congress and he hasn't had his chance yet and blown it like her .

I want Bernie to win it because I don't want to get behind trump. If he endorses her than he will confirm he was a phony from the start.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: interupt42

They are not very different in their platform and she certainly isn't everything he's against . They are from the same party remember.

While they may be from the same party he is fighting against corruption, corporate prostitutes, and people with conflict of interest which is exactly what Hillary is the poster child for.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: enlightenedservantHowever, I don't expect him to support Hillary either because she is everything he is supposedly fighting against.

But that's not true. Like I said in my post, we left wing progressives are fighting for a lot of things. I even laid out quite a few of our policy positions. Hillary doesn't advocate many of our strongest positions, but she's still better than the alternatives.

So Bernie temporarily supporting her against a Republican or right winger still makes more sense than not supporting her against a Republican or right winger. Part of it is that wretched "lesser of 2 evils" things. But at least we know Hillary won't actively attack a lot of our positions the way the other candidates will (except Jill Stein, of course).

Don't forget that Bernie chose to run as a Democrat for this presidential race. If he was the candidate you seem to think he is, he would've run as an independent or with the Green Party. But he didn't. He's trying to get the Democratic Party to adopt more progressive policies, particularly if he becomes the nominee. In other words, his entire candidacy is an attempt to change the Democratic Party from within, as opposed to making the changes from the outside. If you look at it that way, it makes perfect sense why he'd still support Hillary as the Democratic presidential candidate against Trump. But it also makes sense why he'd keep fighting until the convention, to make sure the Dem establishment is forced to the left as much as possible.

Now if the Green Party's Jill Stein started supporting Hillary, your arguments would be completely accurate. But Bernie chose not to go down that path the moment he accepted the conditions to run as a Democrat in the first place.

The point I was trying to make was that Bernies biggest battle is Hillary at this point in time and not Trump. When I created this thread most of the Bernie supporters were going full force in Trump attacks and ignoring Hillary.

2 reasons.

1. Trump's an idiot that keeps pushing new dumb ideas that need addressing. For example, his "just print more money" monetary suggestion was so jaw droppingly stupid that I purposely ignored the threads about it. But I can certainly understand why other people would obsess over it.

2. You should probably check out the actual Democrat/left wing sites and forums. Because the Bernie vs Hillary civil war is still raging just as hard there (like on Democratic Underground & DailyKos). A lot of the Bernie supporters there are not only refusing to support Hillary if she gets the nomination, but they're even supporting Debbie Wasserman Schultz's challenger in her own congressional race (DWS is the current head of the DNC & is a Hillary shill). Of course, outright stating they won't support Hillary even if she becomes the Dem nominee will get them banned on those sites, so they try to say it in other ways.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Wrong. He is a long-standing INDEPENDENT, who is caucusing with the Dems for this election.

He's a registered democrat and voted with democrats 93% of the time.

Bernie wants all the benefit of running as a democrat and none of the stigma. No way in heII does he deserve that kind of special 'gift.'

I am a registered 'Unaffiliated' voter.' If I re-registered as a democrat, I would no longer be 'Unaffiliated' and no one would believe I was.

When Arlen Specter switched parties, no one said he was a 'republican serving as a democrat.'

Ridiculous. Bernie is a democrat now. Today. And there is no way to spin it any other way.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Like I said IMO he is a phoney if he supports hillary because she is the poster child for corruption,conflict of interest, Corporate Whoreism, and scandalous coincidences where she is always in the winning end.

I would expect for Bernie to keep his integrity and not supporter her and go with either a third party or no one , like Ron Paul did.

Again I would support Bernie if he gets the DNC nomination and you don't have to convince me on anything about Trump as I'm fully aware of his BS. Sadly I'm also fully aware of Hillaries .

Why are Bernie Sanders supporters putting more efforts into attacking Trump than Hillary?

I've been saying this since the beginning, but you're not going to like the answer...

It's because the generation most in support of the Bern are notoriously short-sighted SJWs....

They have difficulty in judging cause and effect, and are more interested in how they'll be seen by their friends, than about having any REAL position on anything. Their friends attack Trump because he's so against the grain of the standard SJW attitudes...so they jump on it as well.

Well, it's "Berned" them in the ass, because too late. He's all but finished as a candidate, barring some major upset in California.

While both Bernie supporters and Trump supporters are "angry"...it's the Bernie ones that cause riots, etc. The Trump folks, are used to keeping even their support under wraps, as socially, just isn't "cool" to support him, but those of us who actually read his plans, and compared them with the others' will simply vote how we'll vote when the time comes.

a reply to: Gazrok

I agree with most of what you said however I'm not so sure that the ones causing the riots aren't also Hillary and DNC paid supporters.

She is sneaky , smart , calculated , and a career dirty politician with the DNC behind her. She and the DNC are not above playing political games and paying people to encourage or promote those type of riots to tarnish the Bernie supporter image.

The GOP also did it to Ron Paul when they tried to label Ron Paul and his supporters as crazy.

a reply to: interupt42

It's a possibility, but to be honest, when this all started, Bernie had even LESS of a chance then, and she had already set her sights on Cruz and Trump. Though, I wouldn't put it past her.

That said though, after speaking to a few Bernie supporters, I can tell you that at least 8 in 10 got EXTREMELY heated (and we're talking friends here), when learning I supported Trump. Me, a guy they've known for years in all of these cases....and they were chomping in the bit in their mad, escalated voice arguments.

And not ONE of them could tell me Bernie's 5 points, or Trump's plans or positions that they disagreed with, let alone WHY. They were for Bernie because it was considered the "in" SJW position to be in. The Internet told them they should support him, so they did. It's ridiculous.

I should add that the TWO of them who didn't get argumentative at least had more solid reasons for their support. They spouted the typical "racist, bigot" BS fed by MSM, but at least they knew a little bit about Bernie's actual plans, even if not the specifics.

He's a registered democrat

As of LAST YEAR only....

a reply to: Gazrok

It's a possibility,

Thats all I'm saying.

That said though, after speaking to a few Bernie supporters, I can tell you that at least 8 in 10 got EXTREMELY heated

LOL, some of the nicest (when you agree with them) but angriest people I have met are liberal hippies. So I don't doubt it.

a reply to: interupt42

Obviously you have not looked into this very deeply. That's ok. I expect it.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: interupt42

Obviously you have not looked into this very deeply. That's ok. I expect it.

Clintons Corporate prostitute : Check
Clintons Conflict of interest : Check
Clintons corruption: check
Clintons scandals: check
Clintons Liar: Check
Clinton bad judgement: check

She takes money from the lobbyist she CLAIMS to have taken on, yet each of those industries she has taken on is working just fine for the lobbyist, but is a cluster F for the tax payers and regular joes.

She has such bad judgement at the minimum that as a consequence she is currently being investigated by the FBI for criminal actions, she has millions missing from her charity and questionable donations from foreign interest.

She and her husband have a history of lying even under oath.

She has a career in gov't and what has she really accomplished for the regular joe?

The best case scenario is that your are getting a pay check from the Hillary campaign.

a reply to: interupt42

Making stuff up doesn't help your point.
Sorry.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: interupt42

Making stuff up doesn't help your point.
Sorry.

I will take Your one liners as your acknowledgement that you have no counterpoints.

Etherwise Which part is made up?

But if Sanders becomes Vice President, he will just show everyone of his hardcore followers, how hypocrite he really is, it's going to shatter their idealistic views like cheap glass...

originally posted by: Substracto
But if Sanders becomes Vice President, he will just show everyone of his hardcore followers, how hypocrite he really is, it's going to shatter their idealistic views like cheap glass...

Some for sure. Him endorsing clinton in any way is 100 % confirmation to me ,that he was bs from the start. She is every thing wrong with politicians and what he is fighting against.

a reply to: interupt42

Exactly, my opinion exactly, a lot of them have a stronger disdain for Hilary than for Trump.

a reply to: interupt42

All of it.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: interupt42

All of it.

Yeah , she is full of it. I hope you are actually getting a pay check from her, because the alternative is not good.



Did she lie about being under sniper fire: YES


Does she take lobbyist money : YES

Has she taken on the lobbyist giving her money : NO
If she did then she failed miserably, as they are just fine and its sill a cluster F for the people.


Did her husband lie under oath: Yes, he even took a plea deal to not get charged by giving up his right to practice law.

Did she have bad judgement with the email server:Yes at minimum, enough so that the FBI is doing a criminal investigation on her.


The family has a history of lying,deception, and scandals.



You must be exhausted from trying to fight for her integrity , which could explain your fly by one line responses.

why are you pretending to speak for sanders' supporters ?