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Salam Alaikum - testing the limits of Swedish generosity

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posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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The documentary below is a thought provoking insight into the problem being faced at the moment by many nations thanks to the nasty war in Syria / Iraq.



I watched it and was left with very mixed feelings. For instance, the Iraqi family that had the baby in Sweden left me feeling that they needed to be helped. They are the sort of people I would offer a room in my own home. I was left feeling really crappy when they show the Uncle in Iraq crying like a little boy because all of his family are dead now - killed by both sides of the war.

But then you hear the Swedish woman speak and she is dead right with what she sees and espouses as the problem i.e. she cites one small example where a Jesus sculpture on the wall of a building that has been there for many years now has to be covered up to keep 'them' happy.

The core problem as I see it is this; These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result and we end up with what looks more like a state sponsored occupation than a melting pot of cultures. They set up their own businesses, want their own schools and basically try to form microstates.

I live in a country of immigrants and we've had very little problem until Islam came along. Everyone else comes along, finds their place and fits in. They get out into the workplace and are accepted among us and before long they are learning all our silly colloquialisms and sharing stories about their homeland with us. These Islamic refugees however go one step further than other groups and demand that we start making allowances for them instead of being grateful for us letting them have a safe place to be.

So, what is the answer?

As a human being I feel bad for these people. They need help. But I am not cool with helping them if they are going to bite the hand that feeds them. How do we help them without losing our own freedoms and safety?


edit on 13-3-2016 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973




These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result


I believe that's really up to us as individuals.

As you say, much to be learned from new neighbours



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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Honestly the answer is for international corporate interests, big banking and the military industrial complex to get a heart and stop being evil pr#cks



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973




These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result


I believe that's really up to us as individuals.

As you say, much to be learned from new neighbours


Sweden has become the rape capital of the world and Germany now faces a similar problem.

How do we reconcile that as 'learning'? Our women are free due to the hard work they put in to educate us that they are the same as men in most ways and deserve the same rights and to viewed as equals. The men from these Arabic nations come in and view them as whores for the taking.

It seems more like a step backwards into tyranny and occupation to me.
edit on 13-3-2016 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973




Sweden has become the rape capital of the world and Germany now faces a similar problem. How do we reconcile that as 'learning'?


Raping isn't learning, obviously. Neither is it the only new import.

Rapists should be excluded from all society, and just like Trump's association of Mexicans and rapists, the local guy's association of immigrants and rapists has its limits.



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973


same as men in most ways


Eff that, I was doing good until the above. Same as men in ALL ways, save for the obvious.
edit on 10 27 2013 by donktheclown because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: donktheclown
a reply to: markosity1973


same as men in most ways


Aaaw, I was doing good until the above. Same as men in ALL ways.


Lolz, I edited it to most because of the obvious genitalia and baby carrying ability difference. In ability and intelligence, they are our equals



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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The refugees should be taken in by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Iran.

The UN could assist by building safe camps for them to live in with security until the wars are over.

Why this isn't happening yet, I don't know.



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: markosity1973
The documentary below is a thought provoking insight into the problem being faced at the moment by many nations thanks to the nasty war in Syria / Iraq.



I watched it and was left with very mixed feelings. For instance, the Iraqi family that had the baby in Sweden left me feeling that they needed to be helped. They are the sort of people I would offer a room in my own home. I was left feeling really crappy when they show the Uncle in Iraq crying like a little boy because all of his family are dead now - killed by both sides of the war.

But then you hear the Swedish woman speak and she is dead right with what she sees and espouses as the problem i.e. she cites one small example where a Jesus sculpture on the wall of a building that has been there for many years now has to be covered up to keep 'them' happy.

The core problem as I see it is this; These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result and we end up with what looks more like a state sponsored occupation than a melting pot of cultures. They set up their own businesses, want their own schools and basically try to form microstates.

I live in a country of immigrants and we've had very little problem until Islam came along. Everyone else comes along, finds their place and fits in. They get out into the workplace and are accepted among us and before long they are learning all our silly colloquialisms and sharing stories about their homeland with us. These Islamic refugees however go one step further than other groups and demand that we start making allowances for them instead of being grateful for us letting them have a safe place to be.

So, what is the answer?

As a human being I feel bad for these people. They need help. But I am not cool with helping them if they are going to bite the hand that feeds them. How do we help them without losing our own freedoms and safety?



I am not sure I would say ghettos. But have you ever lived in a large city? Or even a medium sized one? Where I live we have German/Polish/Irish/Black neighborhoods, small pockets of Asian neighborhoods. Go to NYC and you would be shocked, I imagine.

However, I see a lot of cultural exchange, even in my medium sized city.

Not long ago, at a neighborhood gathering near downtown, I sang some of my poetry while a West African band made up the music as we went. It was fantastic. I know the husband of woman we knew who owned the house is Muslim, but no idea about the band I sang with. I didn't ask and didn't care. This is just one example. One can have assimilation at the same time as some separateness.

alaikum salaam
edit on 13-3-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973




Sweden has become the rape capital of the world and Germany now faces a similar problem. How do we reconcile that as 'learning'?


Raping isn't learning, obviously. Neither is it the only new import.

Rapists should be excluded from all society, and just like Trump's association of Mexicans and rapists, the local guy's association of immigrants and rapists has its limits.


I'm going to ignore your Trump example, because the man is a clown.

There is however a huge gulf in the view of women in society between the West and Islamic nations, especially the Wahhabi ones with Sharia law in practice.

I cover off on the weird problem the segregation of women has created in Afghanistan in the thread below.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973




These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result


I believe that's really up to us as individuals.

As you say, much to be learned from new neighbours


Sweden has become the rape capital of the world and Germany now faces a similar problem.

How do we reconcile that as 'learning'? Our women are free due to the hard work they put in to educate us that they are the same as men in most ways and deserve the same rights and to viewed as equals. The men from these Arabic nations come in and view them as whores for the taking.

It seems more like a step backwards into tyranny and occupation to me.


Sweden is NOT the rape capitol of the world. This has been gone over in multiple threads on ATS. The changing of language in the Swedish penal code ahas upped their numbers to include things that most do not consider rape.

Rape in Sweden
edit on 13-3-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: reldra
[
Sweden is NOT the rape capitol of the world. This has been gone over in multiple threads on ATS. The changing of language in the Swedish penal code ahas upped their numbers to include things that most do not consider rape.

Rape in Sweden


Gotta love how you apologists stick your head in the sand. You'll argue the point rather than admit there is an issue and come up with a solution.

There has been enough evidence in both Germany and Sweden to indicate a sharp rise in sexual assault being committed by Middle Eastern men.

There have been many threads on that too.....



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
The refugees should be taken in by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Iran.

The UN could assist by building safe camps for them to live in with security until the wars are over.

Why this isn't happening yet, I don't know.


Saudi Arabia has taken some. It is actually in #6 in regard to taking Syrian refugees.

1) Turkey
2)Lebanon
3)Jordan
4)Germany
5) Greece

Sweden stands at #14, behind Kuwait, Iraq and the UAE.

source

edit on 13-3-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973




There is however a huge gulf in the view of women in society between the West and Islamic nations, especially the Wahhabi ones with Sharia law in practice. I cover off on the weird problem the segregation of women has created in Afghanistan in the thread below.


In this case I believe people who see this and live in Sweden have a responsibility to teach new Swedes and visitors alike about the respect for strangers' privacy, another aspect of the learning I mentioned.

Certainly there are more positive aspects, but this one does seem important.

edit to add:

keeping in mind that not all migrants are rapists or counter-privacy fiends
edit on 02312v2016Sunday by wisvol because: addition



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: reldra
[
Sweden is NOT the rape capitol of the world. This has been gone over in multiple threads on ATS. The changing of language in the Swedish penal code ahas upped their numbers to include things that most do not consider rape.

Rape in Sweden


Gotta love how you apologists stick your head in the sand. You'll argue the point rather than admit there is an issue and come up with a solution.

There has been enough evidence in both Germany and Sweden to indicate a sharp rise in sexual assault being committed by Middle Eastern men.

There have been many threads on that too.....


I am not an apologist. If Sweden were the Rape Capitol of the World, I would be saying it is. But it isn't. You are saying it. Give facts and maybe people will discuss with you.

Getting ridiculous. I deal in facts. I am not an apologist, a shill, a brownshirt or anything else like that. I will not deal with people who try to peg me as something like that.
edit on 13-3-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: reldra

They should take them all. Radical Islam is their problem. They created it.

They are closer too. It's the logistically best option.



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: reldra

They should take them all. Radical Islam is their problem. They created it.

They are closer too. It's the logistically best option.


Who is they???? Actually, it appears the US created radical Islam and we may be responsible for ISIS. Look at the facts and the history leading up to this before you try to foist war refugees on 'They' whomever they may be.

Big picture, people! There are war refugees and 4 photos of 'military aged' males does not disprove 1000 pictures of fleeing families. The WORLD should take them in. As a WHOLE.
edit on 13-3-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973




There is however a huge gulf in the view of women in society between the West and Islamic nations, especially the Wahhabi ones with Sharia law in practice. I cover off on the weird problem the segregation of women has created in Afghanistan in the thread below.


In this case I believe people who see this and live in Sweden have a responsibility to teach new Swedes and visitors alike about the respect for strangers' privacy, another aspect of the learning I mentioned.

Certainly there are more positive aspects, but this one does seem important.

edit to add:

keeping in mind that not all migrants are rapists or counter-privacy fiends


No, not all are rapists. We agree on that.

But

How do you educate people who are so brainwashed by their religion that they believe we are the ones at fault for letting our women be free?



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

Getting ridiculous. I deal in facts. I am not an apologist, a shill, a brownshirt or anything else like that. I will not deal with people who try to peg me as something like that.


How about instead of acting all offended, you point out the error then move on with the discussion instead of trying to shut it down.

I am prepared to accept that Sweden is not the rape capital of the world because of a change in definition of the word.

Are you prepared to accept that there is still a problem with sexual assault that is being caused by an influx of Middle Eastern refugees who cannot handle the way western women dress and speak freely?



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973




How do you educate people who are so brainwashed by their religion that they believe we are the ones at fault for letting our women be free?


Raping isn't a religiously taught notion, contrary to sadly popular belief.

These people are brainwashed by something else, and were taught by their television, which is actually owned by those who own the other televisions, that their homeland's destruction and chaos is a notion derived from the Swede's religion, an equally misguided concept.




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