Why multiculturalism is bad for society

Hello ATS,
This is my first thread so I will try to keep it short and to the point. It will focus on an article in the Guardian from 2010 that posits that multiculturalism is actually racist and disenfranchises people. With the recent flood of migrants from the Middle East, Africa and South East Asia this discussion is badly needed. Whether you feel the influx was engineered by the political elites or is simply the result of decades of Western meddling in the region doesn't really matter all that much. The fact is the people have now arrived in Europe and a coherent policy must be implemented to deal with this crisis before everything falls apart. There have been passionate feelings on both ends of the political spectrum and for good reason; the enormous problem of integration, self segregation and different standards for different people. I was going to post a lengthy quote from the article but couldn't really decide what part to use, instead I will post the link for those who are interested. It really boils down to the following sentiment: multiculturalism essentially forces people to adhere to strict ethnic identities that are assigned to them, it therefore stifles diversity, encourages racism and prevents meaningful integration. The link is below. Also this article discusses British society but is easily applied to other Western countries. I hope this starts a much needed discussion!


www.theguardian.com...




EDIT: TO THOSE REPLYING PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE FIRST TO GET THE DEFINITION OF THE IDEA OF MULTICULTURALISM BEING DISCUSSED. THIS THREAD IN NO WAY IS STATING THAT OTHER CULTURES ARE BAD OR INFERIOR.

It's a very good article, this sums up the point nicely:

Multicultural policies have come to be seen as a means of empowering minority communities and giving them a voice. In reality such policies have empowered not individuals but "community leaders" who owe their position and influence largely to their relationship with the state. Multicultural policies tend to treat minority communities as homogenous wholes, ignoring class, religious, gender and other differences, and leaving many within those communities feeling misrepresented and, indeed, disenfranchised.

What's the alternative though, put walls back up and make everyone live in silos, that can't be good either? Suspect this is a result of mankind growing at a rate that our planet isn't built to sustain which in turn is 'forcing' people together.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

a reply to: s3cz0ne

I just found an in-depth article on this from Sanford University, including the definition and critique of the political philosophy of multiculturalism.

Link

I hope this can add to the discussion. My phone won't let me quote anything from it, so this is the best I can do right now!

Multi culturalism is inevitable and has been going on for centuries ever since we started traveling to other countries which is now more common than ever. People have exported their goods and cultures. Hard to say whether it's been good or bad., but it has just happened. Enjoy make the most of the good parts ignore or tolerate the bad parts

a reply to: s3cz0ne

You are brave to bring this discussion to a place like ATS. for that.

Nothing to add at this time, just commenting so I don't forget to come back and see where this discussion goes.
It has potential, hopefully it won't be derailed or turned into a sh*t slinging mess.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: s3cz0ne

You are brave to bring this discussion to a place like ATS.

for that.

Nothing to add at this time, just commenting so I don't forget to come back and see where this discussion goes.
It has potential, hopefully it won't be derailed or turned into a sh*t slinging mess.

Oh I have no doubt that will probably happen but I have a little bit of hope

@AboveBoard: thanks for the article, I'll have to check that out!

@0010110011101: yeah that quote does sum it up nicely, unfortunately, I too am posting from my phone and I can't figure out how to reply to multiple members in one post without quoting. I wish I knew the HTML tags.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Cause multiculture doesnt work?

originally posted by: 0010110011101
It's a very good article, this sums up the point nicely:

Multicultural policies have come to be seen as a means of empowering minority communities and giving them a voice. In reality such policies have empowered not individuals but "community leaders" who owe their position and influence largely to their relationship with the state. Multicultural policies tend to treat minority communities as homogenous wholes, ignoring class, religious, gender and other differences, and leaving many within those communities feeling misrepresented and, indeed, disenfranchised.

What's the alternative though, put walls back up and make everyone live in silos, that can't be good either? Suspect this is a result of mankind growing at a rate that our planet isn't built to sustain which in turn is 'forcing' people together.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

I think the problem is that multiculturalism actually discourages an integrated and coherent society. Rather, it intentionally or unintentionally, creates walls, walls that in some cases aren't so invisible. Molenbeek, in Belgium, is a good example. Are there any physical walls? No. But there might as well be.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Agreed.

Even humans of like culture cannot stand one another.

Differing cultures, even more so.

Allow people to segregate and they generally relax.

Stop trying to force everyone to love everyone else.

It's unnatural and causes problems.

originally posted by: Tsuro
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Cause multiculture doesnt work?

Diversity is not a bad thing. The problem is when you pigeon hole entire groups of people by defining their identities for them through public policy you fragment society. A fragmented society is a breeding ground for racism and division. It's an us versus them kind of thing and while we're all busy hating each other TPTB go on doing what they please without question.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Never said anything about diversity, diversity works fine..

nope....I'm the only one to see through this....
At the bottom of the mix-up.....we have individual persons......small, local interaction....

Don't allow anything to affect that as we get more involved....it requires forgiveness and the skill of not getting testy.....when a detail causes a confrontation of the beautiful panorama.....

originally posted by: s3cz0ne

originally posted by: Tsuro
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Cause multiculture doesnt work?

Diversity is not a bad thing. The problem is when you pigeon hole entire groups of people by defining their identities for them through public policy you fragment society. A fragmented society is a breeding ground for racism and division. It's an us versus them kind of thing and while we're all busy hating each other TPTB go on doing what they please without question.

It has been my experience that " multiculturalism " and " diversity " means the same thing.

The West is too white, but Mexico is never too brown, Africa never too black, Asia is never too yellow and the Middle East is never too dark tan?

Just my observations, from my nearly 40 years.

As the only countries not diverse enough are only ever predominantly white countries.

Well, how does a culture develop in the first place? Why is it that in places whose roots go back a long ways, the people all share the same/similar culture? It is very difficult to live with a large group of people who all share entirely different views on everything, cultures and similarities among groups of people form in part because it aids the community. Could you imagine the chaos of living in a family of say five, with every family member holding an entirely different belief and system regarding how the household will be run? People need to be able to work together, and for that there must be some common ground to start. I am not saying diversity is a bad thing, only that there is a reason we have such diversity and numerous cultures to begin with. It is much easier for a society with similar beliefs to solve problems, say, than a society wherein 1/4 believe x, 1/4 believe y, 1/4 z, and the last 1/4 believe all three. It is healthy to have different opinions and to be exposed to the beliefs of others, and never should a cultural group be treated as less, but when an entire population disagrees so heavily on how to live life and what is acceptable/unacceptable in society, you will have problems.

The need for unity while providing ample room for diversity is a constant struggle of humanity. To have an overarching identity with a religion or tribal/cultural group or other factor and to then attempt to both hold to your traditions while embracing a new country is incredibly difficult. If an American were suddenly forced to immigrate to another country, say China, as an adult, would they immediately blend in to Chinese culture? What if they look European and have difficulty learning the language? What if they can't put up Christmas decorations or celebrate their religion? What if people looked down on them for not knowing Chinese, not understanding polite behavior according to Chinese culture, etc.? What if what you had learned your whole life was now suddenly deemed wrong?

The challenge to remain oneself and to fit in would be very problematic. It is the same for people coming here to America.

"Multiculturalism" attempts to address this challenge in terms of policy. It has pros and cons like any other theory.

a reply to: Sargeras

I'm not saying that there is a need or desire to diversify. The issue at hand, however, is that there has been a massive influx of people into Europe. People who do not share the same culture. The question that now follows is how to deal with this. What should public policy be? I trust you read the linked article because again this is not about anybody saying that the West needs more or less diversity. It's about how do we cope with the situation at hand. Multiculturalism AS POLICY creates more problems than it solves. If you haven't yet read the article I really suggest you do as it will do a far better job of explaining that point of view than I can in a few short sentences.

a reply to: Tsuro

I'm aware that you mentioned multiculturalism, not diversity. As I have mentioned in other replies, please see the article in question if you have not already done so. People have their own cultural traditions and beliefs are fine. Whats not OK is when it is legislated into an almost forced cultural identity, separate from all of the legislated identities. This goes for whites, blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc. It creates societal division and conflict. It prevents debate and compromise. Europe has been through numerous migrations of people's(albeit largely internally) for thousands of years. The reason a cohesive society was formed was through a process of integration and compromise.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

You cant fix it, you can only teach the rules, laws and obligations.. However their kids will have the same chance as everyone else to adapt and the place they are taught is the playgrounds of the schools, and in the school you teach a common curriculum.. Most countries have left the multiculture agenda, it does however exist in the ghetto.. But you have it isolated..

originally posted by: s3cz0ne
a reply to: Sargeras

I'm not saying that there is a need or desire to diversify. The issue at hand, however, is that there has been a massive influx of people into Europe. People who do not share the same culture. The question that now follows is how to deal with this. What should public policy be? I trust you read the linked article because again this is not about anybody saying that the West needs more or less diversity. It's about how do we cope with the situation at hand. Multiculturalism AS POLICY creates more problems than it solves. If you haven't yet read the article I really suggest you do as it will do a far better job of explaining that point of view than I can in a few short sentences.

It isn't meant to solve anything.

It is meant to supplant the current culture and ethnicity with more pliable cultures and ethnicities, so the people in power can more easily acquire more power.

Ever notice all these migrants come solely from cultural backgrounds that have never known true freedom?

Their culture is to bow before their rulers.

Western culture threw off the leashes long ago, they don't like that, they want to put the leashes back on us.

That is the long and short of it all.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

It's rare to see a first thread that makes you stroke your chin. Kudos.

Religion has been the bane of society for millennia. I have nothing against those who are devout but that is the truth. Inquisitions, Fatwas, Jihads...is there a society that hasn't suffered from religious "intervention"?

As for the issue of multiculturalism...I love Italian food. I love Metal. I love Video games. If religion was taken out of the equation then those with a common interest could easily become friends but as soon as religion is mentioned people start frothing at their mouths. If we are develop as a species we will have to agree to disagree and realize that as a whole we are all on the same team.