It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why are the Resurrection accounts so contradictory i.e. when read side by side ?

page: 1
9
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 06:47 PM
link   
Why are the Resurrection accounts so contradictory i.e. when read side by side ?

It is bad enough that the gospel of ‘Mark’ (whoever he was) ends in the middle of a sentence without a Resurrection appearance (ending at 16:8 =efobounto gar = ἐφοβοῦντο γὰρ = the women were afraid because… ) although containing an empty tomb story – but with no angel in sight (only a ‘young man’ dressed in white linen). The majority of scholars believe that verses 9-20 of Mark 16 were not part of the original text, and were an addition by later Christians. Textual critics have identified two distinct endings—the "Longer Ending" (vv. 9-20) and the "Shorter Ending," which appear together in six Greek manuscripts.

Mark 16: 1-8
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; they (fem.) were afraid because….

A close comparison with Matthew 28:1-10 and John 20:1-18 presents some obvious problems…

Matthew 28:1-10
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2.And suddenly there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord, descending from heaven, came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. 4 For fear of him the guards shook and became like dead men. 5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead, and indeed he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there he will manifest himself.’ This is my message for you.” 8So they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”


Cf. John 20: 1-18
Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb. 2. So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” 3Then Peter and the other disciple set out and went toward the tomb. 4 The two were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, 7 and the cloth that had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; 9 for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead. 10 Then the disciples returned to their homes. 11 But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb; 12 and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had been lying, one at the head and the other at the feet. 13 They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my husband, and I do not know where they have laid him.” 14 When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? For whom are you looking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” which means ‘my teacher.’ 17 Jesus said to her, “Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'” 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”; and she told them that he had said these things to her.

Why are Matthew and John’s resurrection stories so incompatible?

When read side by side, the stark differences between these two narratives becomes obvious - because it would have been impossible for both accounts to have occurred as written. I Further contradicting Matthew’s post-resurrection account, John’s story lacks the Roman guards whom Matthew places at the tomb to prevent anyone from removing Jesus’ body. How could John’s Mary have thought that someone removed the body, when according to Matthew, Roman soldiers were placed at the tomb for the specific purpose of preventing just such an occurrence? Obviously, the author of the fourth Gospel has no need for Roman guards at the tomb, so in John’s crucifixion account they simply do not exist.

Matthew presents us with a post-resurrection story where an ‘angel’ who had just rolled away the stone from the entrance greets Mary Magdalene and “the other Mary.” After revealing to both women the empty place where Jesus’ body once laid, the angel informs them that Jesus had already risen from the dead. The angel then instructs both Marys that they are to tell the disciples that Jesus had gone before them to the Galilee to meet them.

Like Matthew’s account, John’s resurrection narrative also contains the story of an empty tomb. That is, however, where the similarities between the first and fourth Gospel come to an end.

In John’s version of the first Easter morning, when Mary Magdalene arrives alone at Jesus’ tomb, there is no angel to greet her with information about Jesus’ whereabouts, or instructions about a rendezvous in the Galilee, as we find in Matthew’s account (Matthew 28:5-7). On the contrary, in John’s story, after Mary finds the empty tomb, she concludes that someone had removed the body from the grave. Mary certainly had no reason to believe otherwise. She therefore quickly runs back to the disciples and reports. At this final juncture of the narrative that the accounts of Matthew and John become hopelessly irreconcilable.

Is there a 'conspiracy of silence' on this muddled subject among persons who style themselves 'Christians' ?


edit on 12-3-2016 by Sigismundus because: stutteringgg computtterr keyyyyyyboarddddddd




posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Sigismundus

Variation can be proof of authenticity.
Identical accounts might be evidence of collusion.



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:06 PM
link   
Perhaps reading them side by side is the problem. Let's try mushing the stories together and reading them that way.


Here is a possible harmony of the narratives of the resurrection of Christ and His post-resurrection appearances, in chronological order:

Jesus is buried, as several women watch (Matthew 27:57-61; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:50-56; John 19:38-42).

The tomb is sealed and a guard is set (Matthew 27:62-66).

At least 3 women, including Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome, prepare spices to go to the tomb (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1).

An angel descends from heaven, rolls the stone away, and sits on it. There is an earthquake, and the guards faint (Matthew 28:2-4).

The women arrive at the tomb and find it empty. Mary Magdalene leaves the other women there and runs to tell the disciples (John 20:1-2).

The women still at the tomb see two angels who tell them that Jesus is risen and who instruct them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee (Matthew 28:5-7; Mark 16:2-8; Luke 24:1-8).

The women leave to bring the news to the disciples (Matthew 28:8).

The guards, having roused themselves, report the empty tomb to the authorities, who bribe the guards to say the body was stolen (Matthew 28:11-15).

Mary the mother of James and the other women, on their way to find the disciples, see Jesus (Matthew 28:9-10).

The women relate what they have seen and heard to the disciples (Luke 24:9-11).

Peter and John run to the tomb, see that it is empty, and find the grave clothes (Luke 24:12; John 20:2-10).

Mary Magdalene returns to the tomb. She sees the angels, and then she sees Jesus (John 20:11-18).

Later the same day, Jesus appears to Peter (Luke 24:34; 1 Corinthians 15:5).

Still on the same day, Jesus appears to Cleopas and another disciple on their way to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-32).

That evening, the two disciples report the event to the Eleven in Jerusalem (Luke 24:32-35).

Jesus appears to ten disciples—Thomas is missing (Luke 24:36-43; John 20:19-25).

Jesus appears to all eleven disciples—Thomas included (John 20:26-31).

Jesus appears to seven disciples by the Sea of Galilee (John 21:1-25).

Jesus appears to about 500 disciples in Galilee (1 Corinthians 15:6).

Jesus appears to His half-brother James (1 Corinthians 15:7).

Jesus commissions His disciples (Matthew 28:16-20).

Jesus teaches His disciples the Scriptures and promises to send the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:44-49; Acts 1:4-5).

Jesus ascends into heaven (Luke 24:50-53; Acts 1:6-12).

Seems to fit together just fine like that.

www.gotquestions.org...

I don't believe you can claim a conspiracy of silence when a Google search reveals hundreds of articles addressing this topic.

edit on 12-3-2016 by KEACHI because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:08 PM
link   
a reply to: troubleshooter

First day of the week and when the Sabbath was past is the same time SUNDAY (in our modern calendar).

The Narrative differ because of the individual who wrote them but as far as the facts they are in agreement.

Jesus Rose from the dead. A key point in getting saved see Romans 10:9,10

Why are you reading to see contradictions anyway?
edit on 12-3-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:21 PM
link   
In defense of the narratives, ask any cop how many stories he gets when he interviews more than one eyewitness. So it's really no surprise there are some differences in these stories too. Though admittedly, a few of those differences are indeed stark.

Other mythologies have the same issues. All you can do is read them comparatively, and piece it together in a way that makes the most sense to you. It isn't as though we're talking about an actual historical event in this case.
edit on 3/12/2016 by Klassified because: add



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:27 PM
link   
a reply to: troubleshooter

Why did God allow variations to occur within his perfect plan? If all accounts are inspired by God, why did God inspire different versions?



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:27 PM
link   
As has been stated, the resurrection accounts show "contradictions" because the way you've read them. If you go looking for similarities, you will find similarities as well...it's a matter of what you're looking for and nothing else.

A2D



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 07:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
As has been stated, the resurrection accounts show "contradictions" because the way you've read them. If you go looking for similarities, you will find similarities as well...it's a matter of what you're looking for and nothing else.

A2D

That's not really a fair statement, is it? One need not go looking for the similarities, nor the contradictions, for either to stand out. That's twice the OP has been slyly accused of trolling.
edit on 3/12/2016 by Klassified because: ? not .



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

It's completely a fair statement. Take the "ufo" videos for instance. Many people see "ufos" because that's what they want to see....others see more mundane explanations...like "bugs"...because that's what they're looking for...they're looking for a more mundane explanation....it's no different here.

Also, I don't know how you consider that of "slyly accusing the OP of trolling". I don't think the OP is trolling....I was just pointing out that it's largely a matter of how you look at things.

A2D
edit on 12-3-2016 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Sigismundus

I will be honest. I didnt read all that. I have before in several versions and honestly, its like reading a B movie script. I just cant anymore.

My response is worth less than crap considering this fact.

That said,

Simple answer to the thread title, its a fabrication of several centuries starting from Constantine who made a religion...using a dangerous slave spirituality not centered around the state.

Its not true man. Jesus had a brother and they crucified him.

IMO....

Also, allot was made up to fix the damage this peasant genius /cabalist did to controlled state centered religion.

He freed us from the chains of evil liars in weird costumes and fancy hats.

He saved us from ignorance and the death of spirit.

Then they destroyed everything and made us into crap mental slaves. AGAIN.

I hate what was done to the beautiful message of Christ.

He didnt have super powers. He had a super spirit and mind.

This all cheapens that.

All of this confusion is what we had before Christ.

We only got a few hundred years of freedom. But in that time so much was revealed, even after Rome enslaved our souls again, we still retain some truth.

I mean it when I thank Jesus.

I mean it when I say he would agree with me in wanting to end religion.


edit on 3 12 2016 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Agree2Disagree


It's completely a fair statement. Take the "ufo" videos for instance. Many people see "ufos" because that's what they want to see....others see more mundane explanations...like "bugs"...because that's what they're looking for...they're looking for a more mundane explanation....it's no different here.

In the case of ufo videos, we are gauging something that is ambiguous at best in most cases. The contradictions in the OP are anything but ambiguous. They are glaring in some cases. As I said above, one need not be looking for them to jump out at you if you're doing a comparative synopsis of the gospels.


Also, I don't know how you consider that of "slyly accusing the OP of trolling". I don't think the OP is trolling....I was just pointing out that it's largely a matter of how you look at things.

My apologies then. That's what it sounded like after reading it twice on the same page. As to the second statement. Only a fool would not look at those contradictions, and at least question them. Which is what the OP is doing.
Have a sarsaparilla on me.



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: troubleshooter

Why did God allow variations to occur within his perfect plan? If all accounts are inspired by God, why did God inspire different versions?

To confuse and confound the human to seek a path individual to Itself (as a defined personality) in Its quest to understand a creator being beyond that developed personality that was allowed to express itself as CREATOR by PROXY.
edit on 12-3-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:42 PM
link   
a reply to: tadaman

Refreshing post tadaman and agree with your summation. Its very possible that Rome wanted to expand their political base so created a fictionalised bridge from old to new testament by creating the prophesied Torah messiah. When that failed to pull in the Jewish, they raged a war against free thinking, burning anything and anyone in their path. Clearly it wasn't Jesus birth or death that's important but his journey through life. Turning the other cheek in itself is enlightening.



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 08:45 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

As glaring as some may be, they are only as "glaring" as you make them to be. That is, one man can rationalize why the contradictions are there, while another man may not. It doesn't mean either man is correct, only that their way of viewing and interpreting things vary. I'd suspect an educated christian apologist could look at the contradictions and give a rather rational explanation of why they exist but still support the biblical view....while an educated secular scholar could look at the contradictions and give a rather rational explanation of why they exist that denies the biblical view. Both individuals can look at the same information and come to different conclusions based on what they see....and it's simply because "the filter" they view the information through. Neither one is said to be right or wrong.

Yes, only a fool would not look at the contradictions and at least question them....but I don't know anyone who does that.

A2D



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 09:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: troubleshooter

Why did God allow variations to occur within his perfect plan? If all accounts are inspired by God, why did God inspire different versions?

The plan is perfect. However , humans are not...pretty much answered that question : next



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 11:15 PM
link   
a reply to: tadaman

I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of your post. I however think Jesus was hung from a tree and stoned to death along with his 5 followers, not 12. ( This coincided with the Hebrew law at time in regards to punishing heretics and several contemporary non-Christian works seem to subscribe to the same theory. )

Of course that bears very little importance when considering the overall message.
IMO the divine has spoken through many vessels throughout history, with Jesus being an exceptionally good example. Yet our societies always miss the point. Instead of understanding and empowering oneself with wisdom and spiritual enlightenment , they worship him instead. It's easier for weak minds to follow than to take self responsibilty.

Getting off track now. In regards to the crucifixion, i believe it was fabricated and perhaps the most clear proof of that can be found in the works of Philo of Alexandria. A contemporary of Pontius Pilate, Philo kept many written accounts of Pilates executions and more particularly, his cruelty. Yet, there's not even a mention of Jesus in any of his works. Undoubtedly, Jesus would've been his most famous execution.

Jesus Christ = Yeshua ben Pandira or Yeshua ben Noztri



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 11:23 PM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You wrote : QUOTE Jesus Rose from the dead. A key point in getting saved see Romans 10:9,10 Why are you reading to see contradictions anyway? UNQUOTE

Actually the contradictions in the Resurrection stories are vitally important for Christians to think deeply about since eventually the subject of the contradictions will come to haunt them.

Many Christians cite the 'Resurrection' as the most important claim of their whole religion. Christians point to Jesus’ resurrection as one of the things which distinguishes Christianity from all other religions If the resurrection is historically true, they argue, the gospel message must also be true - but how reliable is an account riddled with so many of these blatant contradictions?

For example, one may ask, How many days did Jesus teach after his resurrection? Most Christians read “He appeared to them over a period of forty days” (Acts 1:3). But the same author of that book wrote elsewhere in his first volume (‘according to Luke’, whoever he was) that he ascended into heaven the same day as the purported Resurrection (Luke 24:51).

We also have to ask why there are so many bewildering details between the resurrection accounts. Did the women tell the disciples what happened? ‘Matthew’ and ‘Luke’ make clear that they did so immediately. But ‘Mark’ says, “They were trembling and bewildered; the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, they were afraid because….”

And that’s where the book of ‘Mark’ ends in mid-sentence, which makes it a mystery how ‘Mark’ thinks that the Resurrection story ended.

Could Jesus’s followers touch him? John says no; the Synoptic Gospels of ‘Mark’, ‘Matthew’ and ‘Luke’ say ‘yes.’
Where did Jesus tell the disciples to await his manifestation? In Galilee (Matthew and Mark) or Jerusalem (Luke and Acts)?
Also we have to ask, Why do the Greek texts of the Gospels and the Pauline corpus repeatedly use the passive form of ‘appear/make manifest’ rather than simply use the word for ‘see’ when it comes to the resurrected body of ‘Jesus’ ?

To-day when we ‘see’ someone for example at the store, we say ‘I saw Bill to-day at the supermarket…’ we don’t typically say, for example, ‘I was at the market to-day and Bill manifested himself unto me…’ It seems the Gospel writers were using the Epiphania language of the Mystery Religions (e.g. Mithras. Serapis etc.) where the god is manifested to the Mystes (candidate) during special ceremonies involving a transition from darkness to light.

Also there is the issue of 'risen' as compared with 'exalted' i.e. to the right hand of God (i.e. a martyr's death); again the passive voice is used ('he has been raised' or 'he has been exalted' as opposed to 'he rose'.

And it seems from a close reading of the Gospel texts that the appearances of the ‘risen’ Jesus ONLY occurred to believers, e.g. the 12. The exception seems to be Saul of Tarsus who claimed his own special manifestation at a time when he was persecuting the earliest Nazorean Christians as perverters of the Torah.



posted on Mar, 12 2016 @ 11:39 PM
link   
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

He didn't. It's like 4 guys witnessed the same thing but all remember differently. Maybe, after all the events Jesus and his angels made everyone forget what happened?

Or the entire bible is a metaphor to the quantum world.



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 06:16 AM
link   
What appears below was written by Larry Jimenez, a former fundamentalist and appears in ListVerse.

Larry Jimenez September 8, 2014

An ordinary Christian and a biblical scholar look at the Bible in tremendously different ways. The average churchgoer knows nothing of the textual problems beneath the familiar words. Bible scholars, however, consider the book a human artifact like any other. They have made it their life’s work to decode and deconstruct it from that perspective.

From studying the texts themselves, Bible scholars have come up with many theories on who actually wrote the scriptures. These theories provide serious challenges to traditional assumptions on Bible authorship.

The four canonical gospels in the New Testament are anonymous. The names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not attached to them until the second century.

Whoever the original evangelists were, they never claimed they were reporting actual events they themselves saw. The gospels function more like religious advertisements than biographies of Jesus in that they are theologically motivated. Each presents a particular interpretation of Jesus in which Jesus serves as a spokesperson for an evangelist’s theological position.

In Matthew, the most Jewish of the Gospels, we hear Jesus proclaim the continuing validity of the Torah. In the gentile-oriented John, Jesus Himself breaks the Sabbath. Mark presents a Jesus who is in agony and distress before His death; the Johannine Jesus, by contrast, is calm and in total control.

Some scholars have proposed that the Gospels were written as midrash, a Jewish interpretative technique that reworks old scriptural narratives into new forms—a “remake,” as Hollywood would style it. Thus, Jesus’s 40-day sojourn in the desert parallels Moses’s 40 years of exile in Midian. When Jesus comes out of the desert announcing the Kingdom of God, that was taken from Moses returning from exile and proclaiming Israel’s coming liberation from slavery. The call of the Twelve Disciples was inspired by Elijah’s call of Elisha. And so on it goes—the gospels were constructed from bits and pieces of old stories but with new cast members and a new stage.

The majority of New Testament scholars agree that Mark’s gospel was written first out of all four gospels. It is short, was written in poor Greek, and contains geographical and other errors.

Rather than being independent accounts of the life of Jesus, the gospels of Matthew and Luke can be shown to have borrowed heavily from Mark, in some instances even copying him almost verbatim. Matthew uses about 607 of Mark’s 661 verses; Luke incorporates 360.

To their credit, Matthew and Luke improved on Mark’s original text. They corrected grammar, style, accuracy, and theology.

For example, Mark 5:1 erroneously calls the eastern edge of the Sea of Galilee the country of the Gerasenes, which is actually more than 50 kilometers (30 mi) away. Matthew 8:28 substitutes the more plausible Gadara, a spa only 12 kilometers (8 mi) from the lake. In Mark 7:19, Jesus “declares all foods clean,” something the Torah-observant Matthew apparently disagreed with, since he didn’t copy the statement in his parallel account.

Mark wrongly attributes a quote from Malachi to Isaiah; Matthew 3:3 corrects this mistake. Mark’s more primitive Christology allows Jesus to be called “Lord” only once, and not by a Jew. In the more developed Christology of Matthew, “Lord” is used 19 times, and in Luke, it’s used 16 times.

The later gospels are just added to copies of Mark none of the authors witnessed any of the events



posted on Mar, 13 2016 @ 07:35 AM
link   
The New Testament is a product of Catholicism, the church of Paul.

The Jerusalem church of James, the Zaddikim or Essenes, the true Messianic church, didn't believe Yeshua was ressurected, only that he would return some day.

The reason that we have conflicting accounts is because it is a myth that had many versions. None true.

It didn't matter because you could be killed for reading the bible if you weren't a priest, most people were illiterate and it wouldn't become an issue as long as this was the case.

All that mattered was what the priest said. Today we can read the bible and ask these questions. You will get mostly wrong answers though because ignorance is abundant in Paulianity.

The only true answer is that like most instances of conflicting accounts of a story, someone is lying. In this case, it's Catholicism/Christianity supplying the lies. They will do anything to protect their cash cow and have brainwashed so many people that you are on your own if you want the truth.

But when you find it you will know true freedom.




top topics



 
9
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join