Galatians; Christians falling from grace?

a reply to: Mryhh

Mryhh ... what? I wasn't talking about your post, I was referring to the original post!

Galatians 5:4 does not say:

“You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace”

What is says is:

You forsake all that is within you, for what you are told is right, and for this you will be cast aside.

a reply to: IamSandSHEisB
"Falling away from grace" is not unique to any one translation. It is the standard rendering of translations in general, including a French version which happens to be on my bookshelves ("Vous etes declus de la grace").

The verb is a form of EKPIPTO. The meaning of this verb, from Homer downwards, has been "fall out of, fall away from". I say that on the authority of Thayer's lexicon.
You have made the elementary grammatical mistake of confusing the active and passive voices. EXEPESATE is active, aorist indicative ("you have fallen away"), not passive ("You have been made to fall"). I am using here Bagster's analytical lexicon.
CHARIS is "grace", originally in the sense "that which affords joy, pleasure". Hence "graceful movements". This got extended to "goodwill, favour", which is the normal meaning of the New Testament writers. Thayer again.

You may have discovered how to use the Greek alphabet setting on your keyboard, but your seemingly erudite analysis is pure bluff.

*Sigh* No.

Read my translation again. That's you!

*Gone*

a reply to: IamSandSHEisB
I read it the first time, and recognised the fact that your wording is not based on knowledge of New Testament Greek.
It is a made-up translation, incapable of fitting into its context, designed to meet a personal agenda.
You are bluffing, old son.

a reply to: IamSandSHEisB

Oh my fault. That's why I wouldn't say for sure you were talking about me. Blessings.

a reply to: DISRAELI


Why are you reaching the teachings of a biblically provable false prophet and teacher of the doctrine of Balaam?

Do you not follow how this makes it impossible for Paul to have been a true apostle chosen by Christ? Don't tell me you believe Christ would let one of his apostles teach condemned teachings associated with BALAAM in the divine name of Jesus because I won't believe you, you can't be that naive.

Why don't you drop the fetish you have with this creep and teach people about Jesus. You must prefer the doctrine of Balaam to the teachings of Christ.

You have no legitimate claim at being a Christian, disciple or follower of Christ because you know Paul was a fraud and his teachings false. I have demonstrated factually that Saul could not have gotten his teachings from Jesus who clearlyforbids
eating meat sacrificed to Idols and rebukes those who are teaching it, none of whom are Apostles.

You can't say you don't know, only that you chose to ignore the truth when it was shown to you deliberately choosing to ignore Jesus in favor of a Pharisee who fooled the uneducated gentiles, a fraud. You don't follow the narrow path you are on the road of the ignorant and self deceived.

You should repent before you lead astray good people and incurr God's wrath.

a reply to: Mryhh
Your conduct on these boards over the last number of weeks (your fraudulent conduct, that is) disqualifies you from criticising other people as fraudulent.
I refer you to the proverb "the pot calling the kettle black".

If you have any serious on-topic observations, they will be taken seriously.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Mryhh
Your conduct on these boards over the last number of weeks disqualifies you from criticising other people as fraudulent.
I refer you to the proverb "the pot calling the kettle black".

If you have any serious on-topic observations, they will be taken seriously.

So I called a spade a spade and theologically you know I'm right and you take the typical Christian course of action and attack the messenger.

You ever think maybe I actually just like the truth and hate lies, and am exposing them as is my duty to God for ever. I refer you to the New Testament proverb of Christ, The truth will set you free.

You are teaching people about a false prophet and you are aware of it but still do it so forgive me if I don't recognize your right to judge me for following the Holy Spirit and living in truth.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I expose lies, what I do. Saul was a fraud, I have proven beyond anyaargument with the bible. If you teach people about Jesus then you would never hear from mr but you are obssessed with Paul so thoroughly that you fancyyyourself pious for championing him. You do know he is a fraud, I have shown you irrefutable proof so you can repent and follow Jesus. I don't want you to live a lie and face judgement because you are the disciple of Balaam and Saul. I want you to go to heaven but you know how God judges, he hates liars and false prophets.

I actually care about the truth, can you look in the mirror and say that you are honest and believe yourself?

I can, and for all the hate my honesty gets me I don't do it for fun.

I am tired of Catholicism/Christianity and it's lies. Enough is enough already with the Christian lies. I will not relent from calling out Paul every time anyone makes a thread about him and you can hate me for it, God is on my side, the side of the truth over fantasy.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Maigret
The way I would put it is that Paul's argument is directed against relying on the Law of Moses, depending upon it as a means of access to God.
It is not against obedience to at least the basic principles of God's laws. What we are released from is "the written code", the detailed provisions outlined by Moses.

Yes, I agree in the sense that it needs to be determined what 'law/s' the various verses are referring to. Moses received the Ten Commandments and these are vital as a 'means of access to God'.

Interestingly, Dick Reubens highlighted how the Son was inaugurated as High Priest on the cross, according to the provisions for this act given by Moses. Maybe this is what the Son meant when he said 'if you don't believe Moses, how will you believe me, for he wrote about me?', or words to that effect.

Also there is a veil over Moses, until you turn to God the Father. Another vital ingredient is that we are to be obedient to the Father, but where do we draw the line and put Paul's sayings above God's words or Moses'?

So I believe there is far more to Moses than meets the eye, but unravelling what Paul means, is very difficult.

a reply to: IamSandSHEisB

If they are corrupted then God failed to keep His words in Psalm 12:6, 7.

I do not believe he failed but actually kept it.

The idea that ALL English translations are corrupted is a opinion of men.

originally posted by: Maigret
Yes, I agree in the sense that it needs to be determined what 'law/s' the various verses are referring to. Moses received the Ten Commandments and these are vital as a 'means of access to God'.

Paul's case in this letter is that faith is our access to God. To be exact, Christ is our access to God, but we receive Christ through faith.
At the same time we receive the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is key to understanding what God wants.
We are no longer serving under the old written code, "but in the new life of the Spirit" Romans ch7 v6
"No one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God", which we have received. 1 Corinthians ch2 v11
In the light of the Holy Spirit, the church has looked at the commands against murder and adultery and theft and said, Yes, God still wants us to observe those. But we have not been told to observe many other details of the "written code".
The Sermon on the Mount helps us to understand the basic principles of the way God wants us to behave towards each other, and those basic principles are the law that matters.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I've realised my understanding has been affected by accusations which have no basis. For instance, when I stress how important Saturday Sabbath observance is, I'm told I'm being legalistic, but in this case I know now that they've used the wrong argument.
Going by the amount of religious confusion within Christianity, it is certain that the Holy Spirit is not automatically active or He would be teaching them the truth.
There has been silence from God for the last 2,000 years, but this is about to change. However this long period of indoctrination has had its effect, and confusion reigns.
People take offense if you tell them that 'his name is not Jesus'; but this is exactly what the Holy Spirit says.

a reply to: Maigret

What you need to understand id, and I just learned this my self, is that the real Saul got his name from Sergius Paulus, one of his early converts.

Saul was not really a Pharisee to begin with, he was a Roman citizen and Tarsus didn't have a Pharasaic community.

The Dead Sea Scrolls and even Josephus make it clear that Saul was the founder of Christianity and James was the founder of the Jerusalem church and brother of the Teacher of Righteousness. These churches HATED each other.

Saul turned Messiah into a very paganized Christ and taught that the Jewish teachings of Jesus were irrelevant and that faith in the sacrificial death of Christ was all that matters. This was to the uneducated gentiles.

The only faction of the Jerusalem church that wasn't destroyed by Catholicism were the Ebionites or poor ones.

The Dead Sea Scrolls paint an honest picture of Saul under the names "the boaster" "windbag" and other not so complimentary terms but it's obvious who they are talking about.

Give me a few and I will get you a link, I just woke up.


But anyone who promotes the Hellenistic Christ as being Yeshua brother of James is misled, misleading or both.

Anyone who claims that the Jerusalem church of James was friendly with the Roman church of Paul is a religious fanatic who doesn't care about the truth enough to do a serious investigation of history.

Jesus was crucified for sedition and his disciples only believed that he WOULD return, not that he did.

The Hellenistic Christ is not the same thing as the Jews Messiah. One was supernatural and the other pure human.

Christianity is the religion of the liar Paul, not Yeshua or James.

www.sullivan-county.com/id2/james.htma reply to: Maigret

I gave you a link to show you how the Jerusalem church of James and the Christian church of Paul were enemies so it's not just my opinion and you can investigate for yourself.

ProblemswithPaul

This is a link that documents all of Paul's lies, false teachings and contradictions in a very accurate and logical fashion. I suggest that anyone who cares about the truth and doesn't have time to read and evaluate the story of Paul vs the teachings of Yeshua at the very least start with this. I had been studying the bible since childhood but when I dedicated a year to bible study, cover to cover, that was when I realized Paul was a fraud. It led me to this sight which confirmed my suspicions.

This did not destroy my faith but strengthened it. I asked God for the truth and I received it. I am not complaining, I am just obligated to pass on what I know, and that is what I am doing.

a reply to: Maigret


"Saturday Sabbath Observance"

Please provide one verse from the Books of Paul that tell a Gentile to observe the Sabbath.

here is what Paul says.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

If we believe what he says to be of God then what is being taught is we need not argue about one day being better than another day. Though God rested on the Sabbath from his own work (Gen 2:2) and then later gave a similar command to Israel (Lev 23:3) as a matter of fact other than in Genesis 2 and then starting in Exodus 16 we see the Sabbath being connected to Israel. The body of Christ was not given any such command. But let each man be fully persuaded in his own mind If one wants to keep the Sabbath then they can, if they don't they can, if they keep a Monday they can or keep all the days as Holy they can. It is not to be any longer a means of contention in the Body.

If you are pure blood Jewish, child of Israel seed, and a believer on Jesus Christ too. you may chooses to keep it and you may choose not to keep it. There is no longer a middle wall between the Jew and the Gentile it has been torn down and from the two One new man.

Eph 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

I am thankful to God for not subjecting me to false doctrines of men. I never have to worry about grace or falling from it because it's not possible. If we die evil we get the exact amount of punishment we deserve. If we die good we get the appropriate reward. Grace is a false doctrine of men.

God has no injustice in him and he is merciful. Even the damned can return for another chance for we have all drank from the cup of forgetfulness. But we can find the truth in this life and when you find the truth your ignorance vanishes and you keep learning until you rest.

Anyway, you can't fall from grace because grace is a human doctrine. God doesn't follow Paul.

a reply to: Mryhh

God is the God of Grace.

just use your Bible search engine to find the word grace and see.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Paul may be your authority, but he's not mine. I know for a fact that Saturday Sabbath observance is crucial for getting to God the Father and for obedience to Him.

Paul in the verses you quoted is making the point that no one is to judge anyone else in what they do in their worship, because those others will bear the judgement on their own actions, just as you will on yours.

One verse you left out was Hebrews 4:9 'There remains therefor a [Sabbath] rest for the children of God'.

Christians don't keep this Sabbath, which is why they will be killing God's people, believing they're offering 'God a service', because they know neither the Father nor the Son. The ones they'll be killing are the Israelites, who will as a matter of course, observe the Saturday Sabbath.

You quoted Ephesians 2:12 which makes it clear that 'without the Messiah, you are aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the Covenants of promise, having no hope, [being] without God, and in the world'. The Israelites are in the world, but are not of it, because they know that this world/reality is a rotting carcass in comparison to what is to come.

You also quoted Ephesians 2:15 which is about the Messiah abolishing the 'enmity' of the Law of the Ten Commandments - just as elsewhere it says he has done away with the 'righteousness' of the Law - but this does not mean that he has done away with the Law itself - only the curse and the righteousness. In other words, we will not be justified by keeping the Ten Commandments, but do it in obedience to God.