Speaking in tongues Real, or BS?

eastorlandopost.com...

While Ted Cruz proudly proclaims he is an Evangelical Christian, his campaign takes pains to hide the truth that Cruz and his pastor father, Rafael Cruz are Pentecostal Christians, a fact further hidden by having Ted and Heidi Cruz’s belong to the congregation of First Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist church in Houston, as their home church.

Both Cruz’s parents, his father Rafael a Cuban-born immigrant, and his mother Eleanor, born in Wilmington, Delaware, grew up in Catholic families. Both were among the millions of that left the Catholic Church since the 1960s to embrace Pentecostalism, a Christian movement estimated to make up 4.4 percent of the U.S. population, accounting for some 13 percent of evangelical churches in the United States.

Holy Spirit’s “Purifying Fire”

The name “Pentecostal” derives from the feast of the Pentecost, typically celebrated fifty days after Easter, and identified in the Acts of the Apostles 2:1-31 as the day when the Holy Spirit descended in “purifying fire” upon the Apostles of Jesus Christ, inspiring them to go forth from hiding in fear to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Pentecostals believe the Apostles of Jesus were aided by the Holy Spirit’s “gift of tongues,” in what Pentecostals consider as “baptism by the Holy Spirit,” deriving from 1 Corinthians 12:14, that gave the Apostles the ability to speak in a “God-enabled prayer language” that Pentecostals believe even today allows the unintelligible human utterances of an Pentecostal evangelist to be understood by foreigners who do not speak the Pentecostal evangelist’s language.
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I Admit to not having a clue about this, other than what I have seen personally, and don't like to accuse others of anything wrong when it comes to religion. As long as you are happy and not hurting others, I think you should do whatever you want. having said that, I have a real hang up with the whole "speaking in tongues" thing. I have seen people do this on my two visits to the Pentecostal Holiness churches that I have been to. On both occasions, it came across as...well....fake as hell.

I can't help but think that God has much bigger and better things to do than to manifest himself into this ONE person at this particular time in order to make this ONE person appear to be speaking in God's tongue. Aren't there kids who are starving, or villages needing clean water somewhere? It almost seems what I would consider to be Blasphemy to fake this. Pretending God chose you to give a message nobody can understand.

Maybe it's real and I just don't have enough churching up. Maybe I'm just no holy enough. Or, maybe it's bull#. I'd say that's for God to decide when you get there.

As far as Ted goes, it this makes him happy, super. may God be with you. But I don't think this makes him any more presidential for being part of this. (IMHO)

a reply to: network dude

Hi ND,

Interesting to see this come up as a topic on ATS, I must admit I was surprised to see it, and further surprised to see that it was you that was asking!

As for the topic at hand - speaking in tongues. Yes, it can be faked, sometimes unconsciously, sometimes consciously. For me personally, I do pray in tongues, but I consider it a private affair. In fact, in the apostolic writings of St Paul, he admonishes people to pray in tongues only when in a small gathering, or independently - he basically says it's not something you should be doing when the church gathers as a congregagtion - unless someone is willing to attempt an interpretation of what was spoken, which is a far less common spiritual gift.

When I begin to pray, I do so quietly, and I tend to find that the language sort of wells up, like the rolling in of a wave, it gathers intensity & the content varies more interestingly as the devotional time passes. I can find it quite stirring at times, and indeed it can feel like a fire in the heart/belly, a strengthening of the inner man, an awareness of the movement of power in the spirit.

As for these pentecostals, I have issues with some of them, which extend to the type of sermons that are preached too. I tend to see that the tongues appear faked in sermons where the pastor keeps asking if people have "..faith to give me a thousand dollars, and see God pour out an abundance of prosperity upon you/ your home/ your business", and so on. Many pentecostals are fine, but it comes down to individual discernment really. Discernment of spirits is another of the apostolic spiritual gifts, and it is wise to assess the spirit of a ministry before committing to join in.

My two cents.

It's BS, anyone can babble nonsense and claim the Holy Spirit is moving them to do it, that doesn't make it legit though. People want to believe it is real though so they do.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I pray in tongues, per the above post, but do so privately - it's never supposed to be done in large gatherings, it's a private means of drawing closer to God.

I've seen people speak in tongues a bunch of times...no god possession imo...just seems like people wanting to express their love for Jesus by freestyling without using words..

It might be a lot cooler if people freestyled in the pews with actual words instead of the "tongue," which does seem fake.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Other religions have the same sort of rituals and feel the same way you do about yours, that doesn't make what they're doing mean anything though. If you want to believe it then you will believe it but I don't buy into it personally. I see it like those preachers who use their coats to knock down a line of people or use the "force" to push a crowd of people to the ground, it's nonsense, but they believe it works because they want to.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Thanks for your post. I am a little curious as to why my asking this question is surprising?

I hope you don't take offense, as my lack of belief in this doesn't mean that it's wrong, it's just something I disagree with.
I don't seem to have a need to change my language when speaking to God. (He understands that I'm a simple kind of man)

a reply to: network dude
Yeah, I used to do that, and really believed it was god/holy spirit giving me a prayer in a tongue I didn't understand. But he wasn't, and he doesn't. Amazing what a good mix of belief and (self)hypnosis can do. It's all coming from the mind of the believer. They believe it's real, and I believe most are not faking it. However, there are incidents where people have spoken perfectly in another language. Christian as well as non-Christian. Proof? Forget it. That's near impossible to come by. Even when it has been videotaped.

Maybe it's real and I just don't have enough churching up. Maybe I'm just not holy enough.

Thank god for that.

As far as Ted goes, it this makes him happy, super. may God be with you. But I don't think this makes him any more presidential for being part of this.

I think even Christians know Ted is a fake.

a reply to: network dude

Its real to that particular individual so its relative.

I know a guy who swears that he sees dragons.

We all know its BS but its absolutely 100% real to him.

a reply to: gladtobehere

good point.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

So when you pray in tongues, are you also thinking in tongues?

Genuine question.

Depends on how you define tongue speaking and how it is manifested in the body. Some soul are playing around with increased energetic body states and this exists regardless of religious beliefs.

From a logical point of view the speaking of tongue/singing in tunes can be thought of as an over creative ability that comes naturally when the brain becomes energized. Some people can sit for hours creating music tunes that shift never being the same without the conscious being the creative master of what is created.

How it is really manifested in the brain could be measured if you look at the brain on a quantum level and then you would have a measuring tool to know how energized a body really is and how it fluctuates during the day and depending on what the soul is doing. Knowing thru science/awareness an objective measurement on how "the spiritual" world connects to this 3D+1T. Souls here could have known much more if they wanted the mysteries known instead of playing around with faith and religions.

a reply to: network dude

Sorry, you're right, I shouldn't have been 'surprised' to see you asking the question. I think back in the day I tangled with you on a few issues, and I came away bitter. I suppose I didn't think you'd ask questions about churchy stuff, that you were more into the masonic side of things. I don't bear any ill will to masons, incidentally, though in the past I might have been more argumentative about things.. Hope that answers your question, really it is my fault for phrasing surprise where none was really justified.

originally posted by: network dude
Speaking in tongues Real, or BS?

After a few double Bourbons I can attest that it is in fact real. For me anyway.

Probably just as unintelligible for everyone else that heard me as what Ted and his old man said when they prayed.

a reply to: network dude

I call BS on probably 99% of reported "speaking in tongue" cases, but then again, it's an interesting topic to consider--I think this is more of a case of "speaking in placebo."

By that, I mean that the idea is planted into people that this is possible and that this is a divine result of strong faith and belief, so it happens and people accept it as being what it is taught to them to be.

Personally, I think it's babel, to use a bible-created term, and that those who claim it to be what it is are just delusional. But, I would really like to see a study done on this that compares 100s of people who claim to do this and see if there really is a decipherable patter of language contained within the sounds. That would be really interesting if it was determined that they truly are all speaking the same "language"...or if even 10 percent of them are.

a reply to: network dude

I suppose speaking without a tongue would be rather hard.

Can they not just analyze this supposed "speaking in tongues" thus determine whether or not it actually contains linguistic syntax as apposed to a crazy person just babbling nonsense?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

When I begin to pray, I do so quietly, and I tend to find that the language sort of wells up, like the rolling in of a wave, it gathers intensity & the content varies more interestingly as the devotional time passes. I can find it quite stirring at times, and indeed it can feel like a fire in the heart/belly, a strengthening of the inner man, an awareness of the movement of power in the spirit.

In eastern philosophy that would be you being aware of a Kundalini flame.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

That's an interesting question, but the answer is no, I don't think in tongues when I'm praying in tongues. In truth, it begins with a 'blank slate' mentality, which is appropriated by thoughts of God while I begin to speak - as it progresses, prayer is fragmentary in my mind (in English), or it's an unspoken emotion that I can't put words to, and it seems the tongues aspect is 'filling in the gaps' in the fragmentary prayers my mind & emotional state can produce. If circumstances are favourable, an altered state will develop, which can often be highly ecstatic, leading into visionary experiences within the ecstasy. It truly is a remarkable phenomenon, and although I am a semi-scientific person (I say 'semi' because believing in God isn't scientific in most people's books), I simply can't say anything other than that God is at work in me, producing the altered state, in harmony with my rudimentary participation.

a reply to: network dude

Maybe I'm just no holy enough.

This fear is what fules the current self edifying practice of speaking in tongues. I too have seen what you discribed as fake and even been coached on how to fake it.

Yes, some churches are way more concerned with the appearance of holiness rather than being the hand and feet of Christ and serving others. The gifts of tongues was to help spread the good news of the salvation of Jesus Christ, not a standard of holiness.

There is much discussion about this among believers if you want to learn more about it click on the link below.

Speaking in tongues is nowhere presented as something all Christians should expect when they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior and are therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit. In fact, out of all the conversion accounts in the New Testament, only two record speaking in tongues in that context. Tongues was a miraculous gift that had a specific purpose for a specific time. It was not, and never has been, the only evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.

link

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: network dude

Its real to that particular individual so its relative.

I know a guy who swears that he sees dragons.

We all know its BS but its absolutely 100% real to him.

Well who can say what he sees or not. With the right dial on the third eye dragons might appear. Give me a scientific way to recalibrate the third eye and a couple of other people observing the same thing and we might figure out what is real on that "dial". Several souls measuring the same thing to get rid of as much subjectivity as possible and get a more objective view.