iPhone 5 Encription and the FBI reveals Apple has done it.

While some say the FBI can bust into this phone the FBI claims it can't unless a certain encryption in the Apple OS programming is removed. Then and only then could they use a full brunt force attack to hack into the phone.

After reading more on Apples response and it past participation in opposition to Government gathering of information via metadata has now led me to believe Apple has done it. They created a phone that is either very close to or is virtually impossible to spy on or wire-tap (using the old term). This they did to give people more security in knowing they can't be spied on by the Govt.

Giving up their secret would allow the Govt to have an edge in being able to spy on all iPhone 5C and higher Apple OS phone owners. This includes even foreigners.

On one hand I applaud Apple on their achievement. But on other they should be helpful in this matter and just got the info off the phone for them.

Apple phones may be the safest mobile phone we could buy. It is not wonder they are so expensive.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I'm still confused...is it a matter of principal that the FBI is looking for access or is it because they cannot hack into it? Pretty scary if the FBI does not have a team of computer techs that can't get into a phone...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Jon Mcafee offered to decrypt the phone for the FBI for free.
They declined.
I believe they want a backdoor into apple products much more than the data on the phone.

BusinessInsider

The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that's simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.

Hes probably a nut, but he makes a good point. And the FBI's refusal is telling.

I am not an apple user, but this does make me lean more towards being one.

This is the kind of middle finger we need to be giving the government daily... It is in fact, the American way.

They now need to start vetting all employees for corporate espionage... Out will get out soon

a reply to: ChesterJohn

According to Snowden, “Respectfully, that’s bull#” in regards to the FBI not being able to break into the San Bernardino's phone.

theintercept.com...#/

I disagree that Apple should help, the FBI cannot be trusted with the tech



Link not working for some reason but the story is there.

You have it wrong.
The FBI cannot get in to see the contents of the files.

If the phone were in use by the bad guy they could still listen in to the conversation externally.
They could still intercept the emails and tweets externally.

I do wonder if they could physically remove the flash memory and install it into a reader or another device to read the contents. Granted there is a high risk of damaging the chip during removal.

Odds are if they do get in all they will find are arabic MP3's and boobie jpg's.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

They created a phone that is either very close to or is virtually impossible to spy on or wire-tap (using the old term). This they did to give people more security in knowing they can't be spied on by the Govt.

Or this is total B# in giving the public a false sense of security and distracting the public from going after the gov't for completely undoing privacy regardless of warrants.

I see the problem as this. The FBI already has a full data on the OS they can't figure it out to eliminate the encryption. they get Apple to remove it, then they compare the OS data with the new Data after the fact and they find the difference and bingo they have the back door into these phones and can create an entry point using that.

It could then be used live while the phone is in use without the user knowing.

Apple would like to see regulation of the Govt use of these data details so they cant just openly spy on anyone using their iPhone's. So Apple is holding out until they get the anti spying bill passed they want to protect people then they may help.

Apple plays the political activist and the FBI will have to give in to their demands if they want the data on that phone.

BS meter on high.

If the chinese have backdoors built in our govt surely does. Give me a break. The amount of times this same story is being circulated is proof enough of its false audacity.

All part of a marketing gimmick to me.

First, I would never ever believe that the government with think tanks and unlimited resources to access, create technologies beyond our wildest dreams are stumped by a team of geeky designers working for Apple.

Second, I don't believe Apple has a product or ever created a product that has a stronger digital protection than say... the DoD? CIA Langley or the real secretive alphabet agencies.

Third, the government owns and have access to quantum computers that are operating with like 200 million CPU's and what not that calculate planet orbits, oil excavations, missile defense war simulation scenarios... You're telling me that they're stuck with your iPhone 6S? Um, ok, sure, not gonna buy into that bull#.

Fourth, this whole thing reeks publicity stunt. Look at all the new Apple worshipers lining up the streets to support their new heroes... I'd pay more attention to other things going on. This is a classic tactic of "Misdirection", as the unbreakable encryption is total horse doo doo and while the intentions of these actions by both sides are trying to push a hidden agenda.

People, open your eyes, by the sheer amount of posters on here supporting Apple or what not, is playing straight into this whole game.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The fact that this whole thing is playing out in the public eye, including very odd interference from Macafee, leads me to believe it is some sort of sham, stunt or 'false flag' to achieve a different end to what we are being told.

Didn't Apple come out and say the phone had been accessed while in FBI custody anyway. This all seems like a big dog and pony show for Apple to save face. To me it appears as if Apple already cooperated and the whole FBI request to dumb down encryption is to make it appear secure still. I mean if someone gave you a backdoor for espionage you wouldn't want anyone to know lest they stop using said devices.

Wait....people (on ATS, no less) actually believe that this is anything more than Apple marketing?

Step 1: Scratch J Edgar Hoovers back
Step 2: Roll over while he scratches your back
Step 3: Profit $$$$

I don't think people really understand what the FBI is asking for so I'm going to try to give a brief prime.

The encryption scheme employed by Apple is AES. AES is a symmetric key scheme meaning there is a single key that is used to encrypt/decrypt.

The encrypted data that the FBI wants help accessing is on a flash disk that is encrypted/decrypted with a single key. That storage key is in turn stored in a special sort of flash memory called "effaceable storage" which differs from other flash memory in that it doesn't use wear leveling so it's easier to delete/overwrite specific files (and thereby rendering anything deleted from it irretrievable).

The storage key is itself encrypted using a different key.

The key that is used to encrypt/decrypt the storage key is generated on demand by what is know as the Secure Enclave. The SE is essentially a separate device inside of the phone which hosts a cryptographic engine. It has its own processor, OS and encrypted memory. When the SE's processor is manufactured, there is a UID that is manufactured into it (as in, physically part of the processor) that cannot be extracted. To generate the keys that secure the other keys (such as the storage key), the user's PIN is tangled with this UID in some way to generate a 256-bit AES key. According to Apple, they do not record/associate the UID with the phone in any way.

The SE is the crux of the problem. What's important to understand here is that the FBI cannot extract the UID from the SE. The SE is essentially a black box where data like the PIN goes in and as if by magic (no, not really) out comes a key.

Here's what the FBI asked for from the court order (source: Ars Technica):

Apple's reasonable technical assistance shall accomplish the following three important functions:
(1) it will bypass or disable the auto-erase function whether or not it has been enabled;
(2) it will enable the FBI to submit passcodes to the SUBJECT DEVICE for testing electronically via the physical device port, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, or other protocol available on the SUBJECT and
(3) it will ensure that when the FBI submits passcodes to the SUBJECT DEVICE, software running on the device will not purposefully introduce any additional delay between passcode attempts beyond what is incurred by Apple hardware.

Essentially, they were looking to overcome the impediments to brute forcing the PIN. Brute forcing for those unfamiliar, is the process of attempting to "guess" a password (or in this case PIN) by iterating through all the possible values, trying each one in turn, until the correct password/PIN is found.

If I'm not mistaken, there is a delay between attempts imposed by the SE itself so what they really need is something like this:

- A hacked up version of the SE's OS (which will need to be cryptographically signed by Apple) that neuters certain features of the SE including an internal (and increasing) delay imposed between attempts by the SE itself.

- A hacked up version of iOS that won't attempt to erase the effaceable memory and won't impose any delays between attempts at the OS level.

What seemed like a compromise to me was for Apple to create and load a modified OS for the SE on that phone, assuming that the modified code could not be extracted (I'm not really sure). Otherwise, under the supervision of the FBI, they should be able to modify the phone for the time needed to brute force the PIN and then reverse any modifications.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
The BEST sales pitch EVER!!!

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: ChesterJohn

I'm still confused...is it a matter of principal that the FBI is looking for access or is it because they cannot hack into it? Pretty scary if the FBI does not have a team of computer techs that can't get into a phone...

These phones are built as a system-on-a-chip. The functionality of a PC but with all the components packed into a single circuit board. Then all the CPU, RAM memory, long-term storage and GPU processors get squished into a single circuit board. Then every hardware component, device driver and application has a security key to ensure it hasn't been tampered with. Unlocking the system then depends on the user entering a password to unlock everything.

Of course, you could just activate Siri and press the time icon. That seems to unlock phones.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Wait....people (on ATS, no less) actually believe that this is anything more than Apple marketing?

Step 1: Scratch J Edgar Hoovers back
Step 2: Roll over while he scratches your back
Step 3: Profit $$$$

Actually there are a lot of people who would not want to touch J Edgar Hoover's back. And would certainly not be interested in giving him access to their back(side).


-dex

a reply to: theantediluvian

That's a really good description of how the internals of iPhone encryption work. I knew someone here on ATS would eventually post these details. Thanks!

I have no doubt that you know of what you speak, however do you have any links for more reading material on this subject?

-dex

Something I don't understand - Apple offered to let the FBI have cloud storage info for the phone in question. As I had not been backed up in six weeks, the said to take the phone to a known WiFi location for the phone and plug it in an electric outlet for a few hours. Then, the phone would auto sync to the cloud, and all needed info could be handed over. Cloud storage is something Apple has always turned over via subpoena for legal investigations.

So, the FBI did this, and they claim it did not work. Apple verified it did not sync, and they informed the FBI that the phone account password had been changed online but NOT in the phone itself. This prevented the phone from syncing to the cloud.

Records showed the password wash change while the FBI had the phone in evidence custody.

The FBI then stated they did, in fact, have the Health Department where the suspect work change the password on request as part of the investigation.

So, the question remains...why not just have the same person change the password back? Then they could access the cloud with the phone like Apple suggested.

Plus, if they sync the phone, wiping it and restoring from that cloud sync also clears your pin...


I don't believe they really need the iOS change for this "reasonable" and "one time" situation. Even if it is true, they shouldn't have built such a notoriously shady and untrustworthy reputation and maybe it would have made it easier to help.

I admit my first thoughts were that either it was a lie to use against anybody any time OR it was a clever Apple advertisement and false confidence builder.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I started this thread I dont own and apple I phone or any apple product. I probably wont buy one any time soon. I was just remarking that if the FBI can't get into this phone and seeing apple was pro anti-spying by Government it just looks as if they were able to make one that can't be spied on, this is not in any way an Apple advertisement.

However maybe you mean the whole FBI and Apple fight is a publicity stunt that may be.