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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
This all seems very Satanic to me.
Seriously if you don't think religion had benefits that helped expand human knowledge you just are too upset with your own personal history to see this.
Religion is not seperate from the work of Laimatre or Mendel. It was what inspired them to search for answers.
Religion definitely did include architecture and measurement in Egypt. The pyramid was specifically for religion.
originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: PhotonEffect
I think because it offers an explanation to deal with or acknowledge fear. Ritual obviously has very powerful effects. Some nefarious and others enlightening. The ritual is a sort of early social contract of a culture. Recognizing seasons, time, weather making a belief system to explain and teach what it is known to the next generation.
Not so much just fear,. all creatures have fear but an intellectual process of figuring out why and how to overcome it without just pounding the chest.
originally posted by: Barcs
So basically religious people are like chimps. Good to know and perfectly explains why so many cannot comprehend incredibly basic concepts in science.
originally posted by: luthier
PS I see your having trouble with this arguement and having serious logic flaws. Mendel was a priest. To say God had nothing to do with him as a scientist is absolute ignorance. What got him to work when he was sick? What got him to work when he wanted to give up? What got him to work after tragedy? You can not seperate the drive from the work results.
Yes I honestly believe if he was not a priest he would never have came up with his theories or possible even been a scientist at all. You can't seperate beliefs from peoples behaviour and work ethics.
What does atheism have to do with evolution? Do think young earth are the only type if religious ideas? Was Darwin an atheist? Do I think atheism had something to do with Richard Dawkins work? Yeah i do. Not the technical part but the drive and personality that makes him who he is as a scientist.
originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: luthier
There's nothing bitter about giving humans the credit they deserve for coming up with and inventing designs that shaped the foundations of architecture. You are attributing it to an inanimate religious belief system, rather than their own ingenuity and desire to learn things. That is where your argument falls off a cliff.
I'm not talking about cultural anthropology, I'm talking about human intelligence. And yes, correlation to causation fits the bill here because you are claiming religion CAUSED all of those developments. It didn't. It was there and it dominated society, but a belief system can't come with new ideas and designs, so your argument is invalid. You have no reason whatsoever to assume that without religion, none of those designs would have been implemented or used as humans developed into a society.
Religion definitely did include architecture and measurement in Egypt. The pyramid was specifically for religion.
citation needed.
I honestly don't think religion had anything to do with the development of architecture, construction, writing, art, language or any of that.
originally posted by: luthier
Philosophy teaches you to think through the problem before responding. Not to muddy things up. I assume your an applied science guy. Thats cool. But you don't figure out people by thinking they are machines.
I am being rediculous by saying the sole reason a priest does everything was because of God? Maybe you need to read a bit more about priests and nuns particularly Christian ones. What their oath is and what it means to be a priest.
Never did I imply that religion was the sole responsible cause of all of humanity. If you were a better philosopher you would read my arguement, think about what it means and respond. Not just react emotionally. Which is ironic coming from a science guy.
Religion caused people to have a common cause, belief system, morality, and language among many other things. It was the first working on explaining what the first cause and reality are. You don't just jump to string theory from picking fleas off your partner. The fact that huge structures were created for religion and ceremony caused engineers and thinking to go further than mud huts. Making huge advancements in artifacts because of the need, power, enslavement, and money. The same with filling those structures with art and wares. Some of our earliest sculptures are of fertility goddesses.
Citation needed seriously?Maybe you should read more. The Egyptians, Hindus, and Chinese Daoist and Budhists among others all have a form of science within them. Some very crude but not for the time. From units of measurement to sacred geometry structure to medicine. Auryvedic and Chinese having some actual scientifically proven results.
Religion is not the sole cause and never did I say that it was. I explained it brought people together.... Made people think bigger made people scared so the reached deadlines, made them develop better techniques.
There is zero proof any of that is possible without religion as an evolutionary step.
I was taught how to have valid arguements by an atheist who was pretty good at debating apologists. The way he did it was by examining the meaning of the arguements his opponents made and by crediting the truths they argued rather than just sticking to an agenda. This is why I think Sam Harris is so much better at debating than Dawkins.
Also barcs religion has been separated since the founding of the US.
Technology skyrockets because of Moore's law.
I was argueing as I have said about its effect on our evolution in the past. Specifically citing very early time periods. Like I said I don't think it's the case anymore or has been for quite a while.