Utah gay wedding expo connects couples, friendly businesses

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

that wouldn't work, biz owners do not want to scare away Christians, their money is just as green.

How about the Christian bakers put a cross in their window...but then the cross will have the connotation of "no gays allowed"

see, nothing works put to enforce civil rights.

Christians might surprise you. I don't believe that the loudest Christians are representative of the majority of Christians. I think most Christians understand that their rights end where another's begins. They know in order to protect and preserve their own freedom of conscience, they must also respect everyone's freedom of conscience. I'd love to see rainbow crosses for example signifying gay-friendly Christian establishments. Yes -- I really do believe it would happen. When people know better, they do better.

a reply to: Boadicea

We can, however, actively promote, encourage and incentivize everyone (and especially our children) to give their best to all. And in so doing, slowly but surely open the hearts and minds of the misguided.


Support and positive reinforcement work.

a reply to: Boadicea

a rainbow cross...now THAT is a good idea, just to mesh together the acceptance of gays. Many Christians accept gay marriage. This is a good bumper sticker. I am not a Christian or gay but I would put it on my car. I know it would anger the bigots to no end.

Isnt it funny how happiness and acceptance angers the bigots?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And likely to run the "no-way" businesses out of business.... these companies will become the "niche" businesses. "Evangelicals only" stores. While the vast majority open their door-arms and welcome the spenders inside.

LOLOL!!!!!!

Yes! Won't that warm the cockles??? People are so tired of the constant hatefulness and hurtfulness and ugliness. I think people are ready for -- and eager for -- the opportunity to support the good in the world and spread love not more hate.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

a rainbow cross...now THAT is a good idea, just to mesh together the acceptance of gays. Many Christians accept gay marriage. This is a good bumper sticker. I am not a Christian or gay but I would put it on my car. I know it would anger the bigots to no end.

It just occurred to me, this is where the Chamber of Commerce and the BBB and other organizations could play a HUGE role... why don't THEY pass out these window stickers/decals to groups who pledge to serve all of the public equally without bias or discrimination. Maybe they could have a few different versions but all signifying a non-discrimination pledge. Kind of like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, or the UL listing.

Let these stickers and decals stand as their badge of honor in the marketplace... and let the very lack of one stand as a mark of shame.

With a little PR and some national PSAs, it could be effective.

a reply to: veracity

Here's another thought...

Many Christian denominations and independent churches are in fact gay-friendly and perform gay marriage ceremonies... many/most of these churches have marquees for messages and times for services, etc.

Marquee manufacturers could start designing and offering marquees with the same non-discrimination logos for churches and other businesses which use marquees. So a gay-friendly church could proclaim their nondiscrimination all day every day via their marquee with the rainbow cross.

And of course, this basic concept could be adapted in so many ways. All it would take is a little cooperation and collaboration among existing organizations and businesses and people. I'd love to see it happen. Instead of finding ways to divide, find ways to bring people together and build something wonderful.

a reply to: Boadicea

Someone is going to market on your idea.

I don't think it should be necessary for gay friendly businesses to have one, but I do think it says a great message if you do have one.

To not have one should not say you are not gay friendly tho.

better hurry, someone is going to market on your idea, might be me

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

Someone is going to market on your idea... better hurry, someone is going to market on your idea, might be me

Do it -- with my blessings!

I would have absolutely no idea how to go about it and would probably botch the whole thing, but I'll be happy to help however I can. I'd much rather see someone do it who can be successful -- it's a great opportunity for all of us and would truly be a gift to the world.

ETA: Plus, it was our conversation and tossing ideas around that brought it about. So I'd say it's as much your creation as mine anyway

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

Someone is going to market on your idea.

I don't think it should be necessary for gay friendly businesses to have one, but I do think it says a great message if you do have one.

To not have one should not say you are not gay friendly tho.

better hurry, someone is going to market on your idea, might be me

We should not bring church's into this. Church's are exempt.

Gay exclusive/focused businesses have been closing all over the US and other parts of the world - - as they are no longer necessary.

As LGBT are accepted by society - - and laws against discrimination are enacted - - LGBT does not need special stores for them.

The marriage fight is still ongoing - - so it makes sense to have an LGBT focused wedding expo. But, they are not excluding heterosexuals.

Our society is very diverse. What you do or believe in your private life is your business. But, a public business belongs to all of society. Not just who you choose to accept.

If you want to limit a business, make it a private club with paid membership.

originally posted by: Boadicea

Marquee manufacturers could start designing and offering marquees with the same non-discrimination logos for churches and other businesses which use marquees. So a gay-friendly church could proclaim their nondiscrimination all day every day via their marquee with the rainbow cross.

Websites.

Here ya go: Gay Affirming Christian Churches. www.gaychurch.org...

a reply to: veracity

that wouldn't work, biz owners do not want to scare away Christians, their money is just as green.

Well, the same thing already happens when businesses don't take "Whatever Card", or "personal checks." It would work. It DOES work. I already decided not to shop at Hobby Lobby and never will again - nor Chick Fillay (or however they spell it).

If you're not open on Sundays because "Jesus" then I will not shop with you. I already live in a state that had blue laws not long ago, and only in the recent past allowed liquor stores to be open on Sundays (but not Christmas, Thanksgiving or Easter) "after noon." It's preposterous.

The ONLY businesses I continue to cater to who do that is small businesses, owned by a individual proprietors...like, our favorite Greek Restaurant (family owned and operated) who is open "Never on Sundays." THAT, I can respect. Just like salons and boutiques can choose to be open 4 days a week, from 10-12 if they want....but they don't squawk about "religion" or any of that other nonsense.

When huge corporations do it and also deny their employees equal insurance as the normal corporations do, I will not shop there, ever. Same with companies who abuse the government by tax evasion and counting on taxpayers to make up for the piss-poor wages they pay because those people need help to be able to eat....

I can understand "regular office hours" being M-F, but I can NOT understand or tolerate "We're closed. Go to Church" crap when every other day they're open from dawn to 10pm.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I already decided not to shop at Hobby Lobby and never will again - nor Chick Fillay (or however they spell it).

Me too.

Love Greek food.

When I was a kid, almost nothing was open on Sunday - - and banks closed at 3pm (can I say stupid). That was before ATMs. It was insane.

It was such a relief when stuff started being open all the time. Businesses don't need to promote any ideology except good business.

a reply to: Annee

LOL!! Right?! And Sundays were so boring when I was a kid. Have to get all dressed up - no cartoons to watch, just adult news shows - go to church - come home......have BLTs, then Mom and Dad "took a nap."

I grew up loathing Sundays. When they lifted the blue laws life got much, much better.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Annee

LOL!! Right?! And Sundays were so boring when I was a kid. Have to get all dressed up - no cartoons to watch, just adult news shows - go to church - come home......have BLTs, then Mom and Dad "took a nap."

I grew up loathing Sundays. When they lifted the blue laws life got much, much better.

For sure.

Fortunately, I personally, did not have to do the church thing - - unless I wanted to. Still boring, cuz most friends had to and they couldn't play on Sunday.

My cousin in Texas once had to drive to another state to get aspirin. Once, because she made sure she stocked up after that.

It was horrible. I knew people who got fired from their jobs for not being Christian. People hid their identities and beliefs before the Employment act.

Lucky's, the grocery store, closed at 3 everyday, and was closed on Sunday. Seriously! They must have determined moms shop before kids get out of school, then go home and cook - - and are so organized they always have everything and never have to run to the store for just one quick item.

I still think discrimination should be penalized, but the stickers are brilliant.

a reply to: veracity

I still think discrimination should be penalized, but the stickers are brilliant.

Discrimination penalizes itself in some ways.
I agree if it's Wall Street firms - just like the "redlining" that mortgage companies used to be (but are no longer) able to do - to not give loans to people who lived in the neighborhood because they were minorities....horrible. The realtors wouldn't even show them the houses to begin with!

Talk about collusion. That changed in the late 1990s.

a reply to: Annee

Lucky's, the grocery store, closed at 3 everyday, and was closed on Sunday. Seriously! They must have determined moms shop before kids get out of school, then go home and cook - - and are so organized they always have everything and never have to run to the store for just one quick item.

June Cleaver, anyone?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
The realtors wouldn't even show them the houses to begin with!

Talk about collusion. That changed in the late 1990s.

Oh yeah, an organization in my neighborhood sent out fake buyers who were white - - got everything all set up - - then went with the black couple to sign the loans.

a reply to: Annee

Nice!!! Very clever.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: namelesss

You can't legislate 'good feelings', but you can damn well legislate 'smiles'! *__-

That^^ made me smile -- thank you!

You're welcome! I knew it would...

If I thought forcing good behavior would work, and not just come around to bite us all in the arse later, I would probably agree.

But we DO 'force' good behavior, in the strongest socially acceptable fashion; law and torture/punishment!

But three natural laws come to mind:

1 -- Murphy's Law: What can go wrong will go wrong.

True!
Also true is; What can go right will go right!
Also true is; what can go right cannot go wrong!
Also true is; what can go wrong, also goes right!
Etc...

2 -- Unintended Consequences

For every unintended consequence, there is an intended consequence!

"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" - The First Law of Soul Dynamics (Book of Fudd)

3 -- Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Also true is that the 'un-corrupt(-able)/healthy' do not pursue/need 'power' over anyone/thing.
So you do not find 'holy men' running for president.
Or local dog-catcher! *__-

The saddest part to me is that I think will greed and avarice will win the day if we use a carrot rather than a stick.

Greed and avarice, vanity, insanity, has been the species du jour (schizo-sapiens) for the past 130,000 years!
We are at the end of that 'life as we know it', an 'end of times', and are staring our single greatest evolutionary leap in the face, as we speak!
Homo-illuminatus, Enlightened Man!
Universal Enlightenment!
Enlightenment = unconditional Love!

One bulb at a time!

For example, require a clause within all incorporation charters that the corporation must not discriminate. If the company is going to reap special benefits from the taxpayers, then they must serve the public equally just like the government.

Too ponderous, and all corporations benefit from public money and support, and need to follow law and act like it!
There are other countries where such discrimination is the common law of the land.
I doubt, though, that you'd want to live there.
How desperate is someone to discriminate/persecute others?
There are places!
I'm glad that this is not one of them! *__-

If we want to encourage and promote non discrimination, then our actions must actually promote the end result.

we want to encourage and promote non-thievery, so we have laws.
we want to encourage and promote non-murder, so we have laws.
we want to encourage and promote not starting riots, so we have laws.
we want to encourage and promote non-discrimination by business that do public trade, preventing a violation of our equal 'rights'!
So we make laws.

Allowing the government to punish those who refuse to serve involuntarily just opens the door for more involuntary servitude and more punishment by government -- and where it leads, no one knows. They just need the precedent.

We have precedent, pick any law on the books!

Laws are for those with no ethics.

An ethic is;
"Do NOT do to 'others' what you don't want done to you!"
(EVERYTHING in the Universe (and everyone), is 'others', and 'others' Is Self!)!

Ethics are unconditional as the unconditional Love from which they spring!