Utah gay wedding expo connects couples, friendly businesses

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ketsuko

I like this idea a lot better than the one where someone gets sued out of a livelihood over a difference of faith and opinion.

Me too!

I would have to ask you that if He defined marriage, first as God, and then again as Christ, since when did marriage stop being Heaven's and start being Caesar's?

I would say that neither God nor Jesus defined marriage... however, as soon as government codified marriage and granted civil -- not natural -- rights and privileges therein, it started being "Caesar's." Anyone can marry themselves before God and Heaven with no government intervention, certification, and/or privileges under the law.

But, it doesn't matter who, what, whatever defined and made marriage a government contract. That is a different subject.

It only matters that everyone has the right to marry.

Good form. Now no one suffers, no one is forced to do what they don't want to, and rights remain intact.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

but...if people are allowed to discriminate then...not good form

originally posted by: Boadicea
I'd much rather reward and benefit those who do the right thing for the right reasons, and turn my back on those who choose not to do the right thing. (I've always thought that's what Jesus meant when he said to "turn the other cheek.")

Let's hope that one day -- and soon! -- we all grow up and out of this, so that there is no problem... and therefore no solution is necessary.

Yes, I am in agreement of positive for deserved effort. "That which is not earned has no value"

I support Hand Ups, not Hand Outs.

But, I know from personal experience Equal Rights/Equal Opportunity has to be forced. I wish it didn't.

a reply to: Annee

But, it doesn't matter who, what, whatever defined and made marriage a government contract. That is a different subject.

It only matters that everyone has the right to marry.

Yes, it matters a great deal.... and no, not everyone should have the "right" to marry. As I'm sure you well know if you actually gave it some thought.

It was quite the big deal to same-sex couples who couldn't marry because someone defined marriage and made marriage a government contract which precluded them. And to many others -- for better and worse.

For example, to polygamists. To incestuous couples. To the 9-year-old girl being wedded to a 90-year-old man. To the NAMBLA folks. To the girl who must marry her rapist. To royals. To the interracial couple. To the couples of different faiths. And on and on and on.

It matters a great deal who has a "right" to marry under the law.

a reply to: Boadicea

(I think she was just talking about gays)

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Boadicea

You don't get it,none of you do.I care more for gays than any of you
shallow-minded people do.

Shallow-minded? That's your best argument? Okay. Gotcha.

a reply to: mamabeth

You care soooo much for them that you think they do not deserve the same rights as you?

a reply to: Annee

But, I know from personal experience Equal Rights/Equal Opportunity has to be forced. I wish it didn't.

No, nothing has to be forced. Even with force, those so inclined will find ways around the law. Others will do the absolute minimum necessary within the law.

Force is only necessary to try to obtain the enforcer's preferred result. The world is not going to come to an end if you can't punish folks for their real or perceived transgressions... life will go on. You just won't get the punishment you desire against those who dare to think and act contrary to your will.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

You care soooo much for them that you think they do not deserve the same rights as you?

You lost me!!! What did I say to make you think that? School me!

Of course everyone deserves the same rights as me... if it's not everyone's "right," then it's just a "privilege" for a few.

a reply to: Boadicea

Im afraid that if civil rights is not enforced then there would be chaos between the different social groups, it would be horrible and the peaceful,civil, melting pot will never manifest. Our children will learn our parents hate and we would regress backwards as a society.



Fortunately, most people already enforce kindness and civil liberties to all within themselves so it only needs to be enforced with the hateful bigots

a reply to: Boadicea

that question was for the mamabeth, I changed it sorry

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

Im afraid that if civil rights is not enforced then there would be chaos between the different social groups, it would be horrible and the peaceful,civil, melting pot will never manifest. Our children will learn our parents hate and we would regress backwards as a society.

I really really REALLY wish I could argue that point. But we both know there will always be people who will gladly fit that bill.... and there will always be activists trying to force others to do the same... and there will always be political critters who will use our differences to divide-and-conquer. But what do us shallow-minded folks know, eh? (wink)

Fortunately, most people already enforce kindness and civil liberties to all within themselves so it only needs to be enforced with the hateful bigots

And this I do really and truly believe. I also believe that if given the chance, we can change the hearts and minds of others simply by living our truth, and showing others the beauty of love and the benefits for ALL when we do the right thing for the right reason -- NOT because the law told us to.

I know... I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one!

that question was for the mamabeth

Whew!

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

But, I know from personal experience Equal Rights/Equal Opportunity has to be forced. I wish it didn't.

No, nothing has to be forced. Even with force, those so inclined will find ways around the law. Others will do the absolute minimum necessary within the law.

Yes, it does.

Yes, people are still complaining they have to make accommodations for the disabled. But, they will comply when law forces them to.

originally posted by: veracity
. . . then next will be the signs posted out front "no long-haired hippies need apply", "no blacks", "we do NOT serve gays", etc.

Wait, haven't we already been there? Why, yes we have.

I was born in the 40s. I know what it was like before Equal Rights.

I have no intentions of going backwards.

a reply to: Annee

I was born in the 40s. I know what it was like before Equal Rights.

I have no intentions of going backwards.

Well, that may explain much. I was born before "equal rights" -- and penalities for violations thereof -- was codified as well... but neither I nor my people needed a law to be good to our neighbors and fellow man/woman.

Did you? I am seriously asking. Were you raised among people who did need a law to change their ways? And if so, do you think the law actually changed their hearts and minds? Or just their actions?

originally posted by: Boadicea
. . . neither I nor my people needed a law to be good to our neighbors and fellow man/woman.

You are not everybody.

Why would you think others think like you?

I know for a fact they don't.

a reply to: Boadicea

sorry can I just input...

the law will most likely NOT change their hearts, so sad, but it should definitely change their actions, at least it will make it more bearable for others if they are not spreading their hate in public.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Were you raised among people who did need a law to change their ways? And if so, do you think the law actually changed their hearts and minds? Or just their actions?

Yes, I know some people change their thinking when forced to.

Parents/relatives/co-workers, etc of LGBT children/associates, etc for one.

I became aware of LGBT through work.

But, the biggest forced change is Women's Rights. I know what it was like before Women's Rights in the work place and after.

People were forced, accommodated, and changed their perceptions.

a reply to: Annee

and then their changed perceptions im sure trickled down to the next generations. I know this country is much better than it was 40 years ago, I do NOT want to go back.