Utah gay wedding expo connects couples, friendly businesses

a reply to: Boadicea

Yep, you can patronize another business AND sue the original business at the same time. The original business either serves gays in the future or continues to pay the fines - their choice. If they pay the fines and it kills their business financially - how is that different than the free market killing their business? Either way, they lose money and potentially their business. With the fines, it might go faster, but if a business unfairly discriminates - that's okay by me. The faster the better.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If they pay the fines and it kills their business financially - how is that different than the free market killing their business?

The difference is free-will... autonomy... liberty... freedom...

One is voluntary and respects the will and rights of everyone; and one is forced and respects the will of a few and the rights of no one.

a reply to: Boadicea

Well, free market doesn't respect the will of the discriminating business who would like to stay in business while still discriminating...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: kaylaluv

If they pay the fines and it kills their business financially - how is that different than the free market killing their business?

The difference is free-will... autonomy... liberty... freedom...

One is voluntary and respects the will and rights of everyone; and one is forced and respects the will of a few and the rights of no one.

No thanks. Been there, done that.

ZERO tolerance for the childish whims of a business owner serving the public - - not serving all the public.

And I have been a business owner.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

Well, free market doesn't respect the will of the discriminating business who would like to stay in business while still discriminating...

Of course it does. The business only has a right to offer their services according to their will... they have no right to force anyone to accept their services, much less pay them for those services. The business can choose to change their business model... the business can choose to run at a loss and/or make up the revenue elsewhere... the business can choose to do lots of things. But they do not have the right to force their will on anyone else.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

Well, free market doesn't respect the will of the discriminating business who would like to stay in business while still discriminating...

Of course it does. The business only has a right to offer their services according to their will... they have no right to force anyone to accept their services, much less pay them for those services. The business can choose to change their business model... the business can choose to run at a loss and/or make up the revenue elsewhere... the business can choose to do lots of things. But they do not have the right to force their will on anyone else.

More twists and turns then San Francisco.

You have a choice to not open a business to the public.

It's that simple.

a reply to: Annee

ZERO tolerance for the childish whims of a business owner serving the public - - not serving all the public.

Fair enough. I have ZERO tolerance for the childish (and selfish) whims of certain members of the public demanding businesses cater to them, with absolutely no thought or consideration for the needs and rights of others, and who will use the color of law and the barrel of a gun to force their will on others.

I guess we're even.

a reply to: Annee

You have a choice to not open a business to the public.

It's that simple.

And you have a choice not to patronize that business. You also have the choice to open your own business and conduct it as you so choose. You also have a choice to sponsor/invest in someone else to open the business and conduct it accordingly. You have lots of choices that do not entail forcing your will on others.

It's that simple.

a reply to: Boadicea

The point...

NOt to "force" someone but to point out the discrimination.

It is illegal to discriminate.

Clearly the point has flown right over your head

a reply to: Boadicea

You do not have the choice to discriminate...that is illegal

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

ZERO tolerance for the childish whims of a business owner serving the public - - not serving all the public.

. . certain members of the public demanding businesses cater to them, with absolutely no thought or consideration for the needs and rights of others, and who will use the color of law and the barrel of a gun to force their will on others.

I guess we're even.

NO.

. . . "certain" members of the public - - DEMANDING a business provide the same service they do to everyone else.

You mean like the disabled?

Refuse service to that disabled Vet. Kick his ass to the curb.

I have my rights!

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

You do not have the choice to discriminate...that is illegal

Depends on what state, county, city, township, etc?

There are some states that "encourage" discrimination of "certain types" - - - and some counties in those states enacting their own anti-discrimination laws.

So, then the state that "encourages" discrimination - - - tries to pass laws to stop counties from enacting their own laws.

Such amazing "adult" behavior.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Annee

You have a choice to not open a business to the public.

It's that simple.

And you have a choice not to patronize that business.

It's that simple.

If a business is to serve the public - - then it is to serve the public.

Otherwise - - open a private club with memberships.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
You have to force people...

Nothing can be more anathema to my political philosophy.

That sentence fragment offends me to my core.

a reply to: Metallicus
You mean force people to not discriminate? Bc it terrifies me that some humans would rather put up a sign "we don't serve gays" .

Hate is hidden in many ways and judgment will not be tolerated...by anyone's God.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Metallicus
You mean force people to not discriminate? Bc it terrifies me that some humans would rather put up a sign "we don't serve gays" .

Hate is hidden in many ways and judgment will not be tolerated...by anyone's God.

I mean forcing people is fundamentally wrong and no one has the right to force others to do anything. However, I am a Libertarian so you either understand personal liberty or you don't.

a reply to: Metallicus

You have the choice to open up a biz to the public. If you do then you have a choice to discriminate or obey everyone's civil rights.

You will never be forced to serve someone you discriminate...see, they don't want to eat your cakes, that is not the point, however, it will prove that you are discriminating then the law will takeover...if you make those choices...get it? It's about making the wrong choices, not being forced.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Boadicea

The point...

NOt to "force" someone but to point out the discrimination.

Pointing out discrimination does not require penalizing that discrimination.

It is illegal to discriminate.

Under color of law in direct violation of organic law.

Clearly the point has flown right over your head

I got the point... Disagreeing does not equal ignorance. Indeed, disagreeing requires understanding.

originally posted by: veracity
You do not have the choice to discriminate...that is illegal

I don't discriminate against any customers, morals don't really come into it when I'm providing a legal service.
Heck, I absolutely disagree with everything the Westboro church stand for but I'd give them a quote if one of their meeting places needed renovation.

Lawful business is lawful business to me, but when I do come across customers I don't like (and actually don't want the work) they just get a stupidly high quote. Sometimes they agree lol, then I don't mind doing the job and pretending to like them.

a reply to: grainofsand

you can not serve for reasons that do not tread on their civil rights such as "hard to work with", "drunk", "defaults on payments all the time", etc, however, I would be careful citing one of those reasons to a minority without proof of it.

You cannot have the reason cited as "against my religion", its just like saying "hes black" or "hes jewish"...

That is not only stupid but illegal.