Turn the other cheek? New Testament empowers sadists.

It would seem to me that since Rome was in charge during that time period, that if you did not turn the other cheek there was a good chance of being a front and center participant in the coliseum for the amusement of the Roman citizens.. Being torn limb from limb by some animal or strapped to a brass chair as a fire is lighted under neigh it just so the citizens can watch you burn is enough to turn most heroes into pacifist...

When true power is executed upon a population and it is totally subjugated there really are not many options other than to turn the other cheek... Or.... figure this is a good day to die... Their spectacular means of offing someone would make most people figure they might want to turn the other cheek.. IMO

Things really have not changed if you look at Places like North Korea and other dictatorial countries. Hard to get a force together to fight if every other person is a possible snitch for no other reason than a reward or a higher felt standing in TPTB. Change can happen but seldom without starvation and much bloodshed. Many cases throughout history the dictator is taken out by the very people he trust and surrounds himself with. Et tu, Brute [ɛt ˈtuː ˈbruːtɛ] comes to mind with a very long list of others who met the same fate...

a reply to: Darmok

Apparently I have been misinterpreting the scripture.

I though if they didn't want to kiss the side of my ass that I offered them, that I should give them a glance at the other cheek.

Oh well, learn something new every day.

To understand the phrase "turn the other cheek", one has to put the phrase into the context of its time.

the person has been struck on the right cheek. ...you can be struck on the right cheek only by an overhand blow with the left hand, or with a backhand blow from the right hand.

But in that world, people did not use the left hand to strike people. It was reserved for "unseemly" uses. Thus, being struck on the right cheek meant that one had been backhanded with the right hand. Given the social customs of the day, a backhand blow was the way a superior hit an inferior, whereas one fought social equals with fists.

...The only way the superior could continue the beating would be with an overhand blow with the fist--which would have meant treating the peasant as an equal.
...for the superior, it would at the very least have been disconcerting: he could continue the beating only by treating the peasant as a social peer. .....the peasant was in effect saying, "I am your equal. I refuse to be humiliated anymore."

and other phrases need to also be put in context

Roman law permitted soldiers to force civilians to carry their gear for one mile, but because of abuses stringently prohibited more than one mile.

If they ask you to do that, Jesus says, go ahead; but then carry their gear a second mile. Put them in a disconcerting situation: either they risk getting in trouble, or they will have to wrestle their gear back from you.

Under civil law, a coat could be confiscated for non-payment of debt. For the poor, the coat often also served as a blanket at night. In that world, the only other garment typically worn by a peasant was an inner garment, a cloak. So if they take your coat, Jesus says, give them your cloak as well. "Strip naked," ...[s]how them what the system is doing to you. Moreover, in that world, nakedness shamed the person who observed it.
....these sayings from the Sermon on the Mount, these seemingly mild sayings, are actually potent ways of confounding and exposing injustice..... Jesus was counseling a radical new way of empowering the underclass.

Jesus rejected two common ways of responding to injustice: violent resistance and passive acceptance. Instead, Jesus advocated a "third way," an assertive but non-violent form of protest.

source

originally posted by: desert
To understand the phrase "turn the other cheek", one has to put the phrase into the context of its time.

the person has been struck on the right cheek. ...you can be struck on the right cheek only by an overhand blow with the left hand, or with a backhand blow from the right hand.

But in that world, people did not use the left hand to strike people. It was reserved for "unseemly" uses. Thus, being struck on the right cheek meant that one had been backhanded with the right hand. Given the social customs of the day, a backhand blow was the way a superior hit an inferior, whereas one fought social equals with fists.

...The only way the superior could continue the beating would be with an overhand blow with the fist--which would have meant treating the peasant as an equal.
...for the superior, it would at the very least have been disconcerting: he could continue the beating only by treating the peasant as a social peer. .....the peasant was in effect saying, "I am your equal. I refuse to be humiliated anymore."

and other phrases need to also be put in context

Roman law permitted soldiers to force civilians to carry their gear for one mile, but because of abuses stringently prohibited more than one mile.

If they ask you to do that, Jesus says, go ahead; but then carry their gear a second mile. Put them in a disconcerting situation: either they risk getting in trouble, or they will have to wrestle their gear back from you.

Under civil law, a coat could be confiscated for non-payment of debt. For the poor, the coat often also served as a blanket at night. In that world, the only other garment typically worn by a peasant was an inner garment, a cloak. So if they take your coat, Jesus says, give them your cloak as well. "Strip naked," ...[s]how them what the system is doing to you. Moreover, in that world, nakedness shamed the person who observed it.
....these sayings from the Sermon on the Mount, these seemingly mild sayings, are actually potent ways of confounding and exposing injustice..... Jesus was counseling a radical new way of empowering the underclass.

Jesus rejected two common ways of responding to injustice: violent resistance and passive acceptance. Instead, Jesus advocated a "third way," an assertive but non-violent form of protest.

source

when you ran out of unslapped cheeks what happenned? A slap was hardly life threatening back then so yeah turning th e other cheek was a solution. but it does not specify when to defend yourself does it? Jesus would prefeer if you can walk away but when you do not have that option its ok to defend thyself from serious bodily harm.

a reply to: yuppa

As was noted, the phrase was not about individual defense; it was about another way to handle societal injustices, by forcing the opponent to see the absurdity, by exposing the lie.

Jesus in no way advocated for people to be meek and give in to con men or bullies/those who would do one physical harm. He advocated what was called prudence: carefullness, caution, wisdom. Just because you have the ability to punch someone in the face, should you?

That old saying, An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind.

Hate begats hate.

At some point, the hate must stop and the healing begin, even if only the healing begins in the one harmed. Revenge and retribution serve to merely perpetuate hate/evil, even in ourselves. There are families of victims who do not support the death penalty, for ex. deathpenalty.org

Legitimate self-defense is one thing. But it should be done with wisdom and not stupidity.

Would turn the other cheek be for the kids telling them not to watch, or just let the lion or wolves take an do what they want?

Live an let live and live or live an let die?

originally posted by: yuppa
OP. turning th e other cheek is about literally means avoiding situations such as verbal insults. it does not mean to let oneself b e beaten to death or injured bodily like is constantly mis interpreted.

You obviously are not a Xtian...

originally posted by: Darmok

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Darmok
Turn the other cheek? New Testament empowers sadists.

I'll try to offer you a hint, but knowledge = experience, and you are speaking from ignorance.
When you feel the need to criticize something like "Turn the other cheek", feel free to live it for a couple decades, just in case you do not automatically know everything!
You really imagine that you can know anything of any of the 'higher values (like Virtues...)' from your ego centered life??

One example that you might be able to understand is changing one's baby's diaper.
You are standing in the wrong spot, at the wrong time; diaper pins in your mouth and fecal matter all over the place, and little Johnny picks just then to pee right up your arm, in your face, and down the other arm!
You gonna smack him? Teach him a lesson?
Who the hell is he to DARE to do something like that to you!?
Torture him?
Poke an eye out?
How insane really are you?

So, hyperbole aside, you wouldn't even break an emotional sweat, right? He's your beloved child and that doesn't even register on the Richter Scale because... you Love him, unconditionally!
You don't 'sacrifice' anything in just turning the other cheek and moving on!
You do not even need to 'forgive' him, because you didn't JUDGE him in the first place!
All there was is Love!
Even if you do not have any children, as I surmise that you don't, I'm sure that you can, somewhat, imagine this scenario, and just get the slightest hint of what unconditional Love is about.

At least until (if) you actually experience it for yourself, and Know, rather than idly, ignorantly, speculating.

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

Do you unconditionally love John Wayne Gacy? The guy murdered and raped young boys. If have compassion for Gacy, then I hate your guts. The guy got lethal injection. I think he should've been burnt at the stake or fed to alligators.

You can "hate my guts", but Love doesn't give you cancer!

It has to do with Faith (NOT 'belief'), of which, without experience, you are ignorant!
There is a perfect moment when, in all 'lives', we 'die'!
There is not anything that can hasten or delay that moment!
All moments of existence already exist!
So, knowing that my moment of death already is a 'done deal', I can live life right until death!

Faith is Knowing (Knowledge);

"Sometimes, we get what we want, but we ALWAYS get EXACTLY what we NEED!"

"Do what you know to be right, say what you know to be true, and leave with faith and patience the consequences to god!" - F.W. Robertson

Being unafraid of that already existing moment of death (there is no 'fear' in unconditional Love), one need not live one's life vainly attempting to avoid it.
We can simply Love, unconditionally, if that is who and what we are.
Or we can cringe in fear (the father of hate) and never really live at all!

Unconditional means just that, unconditional; independent of all and any 'conditions'.
'Conditional' means that Mr. Gacy, or Mt. Hitler, or I Am unworthy of your 'love', for whatever reasons that you vainly imagine (imagination = ego, vanity).
The unconditional Love that Jesus taught/demonstrated was clear.
What happened to all his self-described followers?

Turning the other cheek is an act of unconditional Love!

"Love conquers all!"
(any argument can only be from ignorance, someone who has not experienced it!)

So when Jesus got chosen to be put to death, and not say or do anything about it, other then let a serial killer, walk among the streets, an having a parade thrown for him, like John Gotti.

Did he turn the other cheek, thinking, idiots or assholes, especially with a godly foresight, knowing they'd regret it later?

Especially since he heals, and destroys Satans spirit?

a reply to: namelesss

So, if we come across another John Wayne Gacy, or another Hitler, what do we do? Say I love you and let them move in next door? Do we put them in jail and give them nice accommodations? What if they don't surrender, and they're on a killing spree? Should we try non-lethal force until we eventually succeed, even if it risks innocent lives? Why not just put an end to their current life, and pray that they might have a better life next time?

You claim that hating evil is ignorant. Love conquers all.

Well, how does love conquer?

If you love everyone, you must love yourself. So, if a stranger whom you unconditionally love begins raping and killing your fellow humans, how do you proceed? Allowing harm to be done to yourself or other innocent people, it's not love. It's cowardice. Too squeamish to crush a scorpion, so you get stung and die.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: desert
To understand the phrase "turn the other cheek", one has to put the phrase into the context of its time.

the person has been struck on the right cheek. ...you can be struck on the right cheek only by an overhand blow with the left hand, or with a backhand blow from the right hand.

But in that world, people did not use the left hand to strike people. It was reserved for "unseemly" uses. Thus, being struck on the right cheek meant that one had been backhanded with the right hand. Given the social customs of the day, a backhand blow was the way a superior hit an inferior, whereas one fought social equals with fists.

...The only way the superior could continue the beating would be with an overhand blow with the fist--which would have meant treating the peasant as an equal.
...for the superior, it would at the very least have been disconcerting: he could continue the beating only by treating the peasant as a social peer. .....the peasant was in effect saying, "I am your equal. I refuse to be humiliated anymore."

and other phrases need to also be put in context

Roman law permitted soldiers to force civilians to carry their gear for one mile, but because of abuses stringently prohibited more than one mile.

If they ask you to do that, Jesus says, go ahead; but then carry their gear a second mile. Put them in a disconcerting situation: either they risk getting in trouble, or they will have to wrestle their gear back from you.

Under civil law, a coat could be confiscated for non-payment of debt. For the poor, the coat often also served as a blanket at night. In that world, the only other garment typically worn by a peasant was an inner garment, a cloak. So if they take your coat, Jesus says, give them your cloak as well. "Strip naked," ...[s]how them what the system is doing to you. Moreover, in that world, nakedness shamed the person who observed it.
....these sayings from the Sermon on the Mount, these seemingly mild sayings, are actually potent ways of confounding and exposing injustice..... Jesus was counseling a radical new way of empowering the underclass.

Jesus rejected two common ways of responding to injustice: violent resistance and passive acceptance. Instead, Jesus advocated a "third way," an assertive but non-violent form of protest.

source

when you ran out of unslapped cheeks what happenned? A slap was hardly life threatening back then so yeah turning th e other cheek was a solution. but it does not specify when to defend yourself does it? Jesus would prefeer if you can walk away but when you do not have that option its ok to defend thyself from serious bodily harm.

I always like what Bob Harrington,the preacher of Bourbon Street, once said about this bible quote:

"If a man strikes me on the left cheek then I shall turn the right. If he strikes me again, he had better be prayed up or a track star 'cause the fight is about to start."

A man may have to suck it up from one insult or injury but he is no much of a man if he lets a bad situation continue wit out some redress.

Of course, violence is not always the best way; but it is usually quick and gets results.

originally posted by: Darmok
a reply to: namelesss
So, if we come across another John Wayne Gacy, or another Hitler, what do we do? Say I love you and let them move in next door?

Love is not words.
Love, who we are, is displayed in our actions.
The 'symptoms' are;

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

Simply, if someone cannot behave themselves in a socially appropriate fashion, first can they be healed (it is insanity to harm others, anything other than unconditional Love is insanity, illness, Hell!)!
And if they can be healed, do so and send them on their way, making, of course, appropriate restitution, when possible.
If not 'healable', they need to be segregated from those whom they would harm (perhaps even from themselves')!
And this can still be done with Compassion, Charity, Empathy... you know, the 'higher' qualities of life, called Virtues!
We have no choice in who and what we are, and we have no choice in how we express who and what we are!
Healers heal, and a week later they might be thieves, or murderers... and them back to healing...
Torturing people, "so they'll know better next time!" has never worked, just for that reason!
We have no choice!
Torturing people in prison (torture itself) is insanity and ignorance!
Look at the state of the world, has it really 'helped'?
Never!
We just, impotently, ignorantly, keep expanding the prison industry and the greedy capitalists getting richer off the suffering of others... out of sight, hopefully, out of mind.

Yes, I understand your violent blood-lust for vengeance, because you have no experience in unconditional Love.
If you speak 'Xtian', the kind of Love that Jesus demonstrated, open to all ('Just as I Am!') no matter how we behave, or skin color, or anything else!
We play our part, we have no choice.
Some Love, some kill.
We're all Self!
One!
All judgment is Self judgment!
All torture is Self torture!

In a short couple centuries, all will Love, Enlightenment/unconditional Love will be Universal!

If you love everyone, you must love yourself. So, if a stranger whom you unconditionally love begins raping and killing your fellow humans, how do you proceed? Allowing harm to be done to yourself or other innocent people, it's not love. It's cowardice. Too squeamish to crush a scorpion, so you get stung and die.

Depending on who and what you are, at the moment, you either pick up the scorpion and Compassionately toss him outside, or off the path, or whatever, and move on.
Or you can fearfully smush it into the wet dust.
Or just step over it and keep going.
Or...

It just depends on who and what you are at that moment!

To paraphrase Mace Windu, some people are too dangerous to kept alive. If you can't understand that, then you have a rose-colored delusional disorder.